neonmania
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posted on July 1, 2003 10:47:50 AM new
I saw this mentioned once again in a current thread and was surprised at my own reaction to it.
I have often seen people who have overwhelming shipping charges accused on this board of "Fee Avoidance". Personally I laugh at this accusation and think that it is patently niave. I just find it silly that to imagine this seller at home in front of their computer figuring out their auction terms and saying ..."You know.... If I pad the shipping I get an extra $5 that I don't have to give ebay a cut of."
I think that their rationale is to protect their profit margin in this climate of low bid numbers. It's very hard right now to make a profit on some items. Uneducated sellers have killed a number of the catagories with their low pricing (I used to sell a line of beauty products on ebay that I now buy there because they are regularly found under wholesale). Because of this some sellers are stuck with inventory that the only way they can get rid of is with low base pricing and higher shipping.
Is high shipping annoying? Yes. Absolutely! But is it fee avoidance? Not in my opinion - it may be a byproduct of the action, but I doubt believe that it is the intent.
Am I crazy here?
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
[ edited by neonmania on Jul 1, 2003 10:48 AM ]
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stopwhining
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posted on July 1, 2003 10:51:39 AM new
i just bot a set of 3 VHS tapes for 9.99 and paid 7.00 shipping.
i dont blame him,i was the only bidder and these are hard to find foreign films.
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koto1
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posted on July 1, 2003 10:53:13 AM new
neonmania >> I agree with you! I think the underlying intention is to recover all fees associated with the auction, pay the shipping and possibly have a few pesos left over. It'd be way too much brain cell activity for most people to try and figure out fee avoidance figures everytime!
"Who's tending the bar?  Sniping works up a thirst"
[ edited by koto1 on Jul 1, 2003 10:53 AM ]
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AuctionAce
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posted on July 1, 2003 11:04:03 AM new
I do not figure just the bid price when bidding or buying something on ebay but the total cost of the item which is both the price and the s/h. I'm sure most buyers do the same thing.
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celebrity8x10s
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posted on July 1, 2003 11:09:18 AM new
How about sellers who sell their items for less than wholesale cost, hoping to just make the money on shipping/handling charges? It may not be fee avoidance, but it sure is a bit suspect. Remember the days of the laser pointers? You would see sellers auctioning these off at a penny, only to charge $4 s/h. Don't know if they were trying to save giving some pennies to ebay, or if they figured they would eat the cost of the laser pointer, and make it up with the shipping.
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neonmania
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posted on July 1, 2003 11:09:28 AM new
Stop - if your seller ships Priority you paid within a buck or so of the actual price, if they provide the box... they might be making 50 cents. Of course if they ship media they profit $3-4 but even then, if it is a hard to find foreign set - you still make out like a bandit 
Off topic - With alot of companies are discontinuing all vhs production I think that they are going to become the hot collectibles in the next few years. A lot of titles will not be reissued on DVD and evenually VHS copies of them will be highly sought after.
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on July 1, 2003 11:13:31 AM new
[ edited by fluffythewondercat on Jul 3, 2003 01:33 PM ]
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neonmania
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posted on July 1, 2003 11:18:36 AM new
Celebrity - I had to do that with some of the products I had. 1 or 2 sellers come along, probably selling stolen or bootlegged product with listing prices of below wholesale and they destroyed the market. Items listed AT wholesale do not get bids. The only way to clear out the inventory and not loose your shirt is to pad shipping costs to compensate for the loss on the selling price
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
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AuctionAce
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posted on July 1, 2003 11:25:36 AM new
Off topic - With alot of companies are discontinuing all vhs production I think that they are going to become the hot collectibles in the next few years. A lot of titles will not be reissued on DVD and evenually VHS copies of them will be highly sought after.
---------
I remember hearing that same argument every time a new medium came out.  Those old 78s will be worth a lot, those old 8 tracks will be worth a lot, etc.
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celebrity8x10s
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posted on July 1, 2003 11:25:40 AM new
It is normal to make some money off of shipping. I just don't think a seller should use that as his only way of making money. Charging $6, to stuff a photo in a plain manilla envelope(5 cents), with no cardboard, etc, and then slapping an 80 cent stamp on it, is a bit obvious in my book. What I did to end my shipping problems was to charge one flat fee regardless of the number of items purchased. I do make some money off my s/h, but for those that purchase many items, I lose on my shipping. No biggie, as I feel they deserve a bit of a break for buying so many items.
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neonmania
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posted on July 1, 2003 11:42:03 AM new
::I remember hearing that same argument every time a new medium came out. Those old 78s will be worth a lot, those old 8 tracks will be worth a lot, etc.::
Auction - if the movie is reproduced on DVD I agree that the VHS will be worthless but there are a lot titles that will never be reproduced - those are the ones that will become collectible. I'm already seeing it happen with a couple genres. I watched a bidding war a couple weeks ago on one title that closed at over $100 on a title that was in closeout bins a couple years ago.
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on July 1, 2003 11:45:13 AM new
neonmania: I just threw out four sixpacks of full Coke bottles made just before Coca-Cola stopped bottling and went exclusively to cans. Somebody thought they'd be worth something some day. I'll bet there's a lot of this stuff in America's pantries, right next to the Billy Beer.
I am not hotcupoftea on Vendio.
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neonmania
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posted on July 1, 2003 12:03:40 PM new
ROFL Fluffy - My mom still has a six pack of Billy Beer
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
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stopwhining
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posted on July 1, 2003 12:13:23 PM new
i dont know if i have a great deal or not,they are ex rentals??
but he shipped media mail,so he pocketed a few bucks,more power to him!!
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neonmania
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posted on July 1, 2003 12:27:57 PM new
Stop - it all depends on rarity and box quality. Some tapes are going to go the way of the dinosaur, others are only going to increase in value watch the genre and specific titles and see what they do. In the genre I am watching some titles are simply holding value where others are increasing, none that do not have a counterpart available on DVD are dropping though and all are going for what their orignal price was where a few years ago they were going for half of that (most of these are former rental copies also).
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
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AuctionAce
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posted on July 1, 2003 12:44:47 PM new
I've noticed that every B movie and film title under the sun seems to be re-released on DVD and they sell for only a few bucks even when sealed. People may forego buying an old iffy VHS and buy the DVD instead. I've noticed the price of new and used VHS videos at the flea markets has dropped way down as more and more people are buying DVDs these days. Soon they may be like 8 tracks ... real dinosurs.
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REAMOND
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posted on July 1, 2003 12:50:30 PM new
re: Some VHS movies not coming out on DVD.
The equipment is out there to convert the VHS to a DVD+R and it is getting cheaper everyday.
Copy the VHS to a DVD+R for your own collection and then sell the VHS.
While it is technically a copyright violation, who will ever know ? And the copyright holder probably isn't concerned too much or they would have released it on DVD.
Some of these "illegal" copies of old movies turn up all the time in foreign countries and many times provide the only surviving specimens of the films and/or have unedited versions that provide missing parts to the "masters" held here in the US.
I have a hunch also that there are a lot of used music CDs on eBay and in used music shops being sold that the owner made a copy of before selling.
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stopwhining
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posted on July 1, 2003 12:59:22 PM new
i bot vhs tapes becasue i have a 1986 panasonic vcr and it goes with a 20 dollars old tv set from my neighbor garage sale.
but i would rather have dvd,you dont have to rewind and it is not clumsy and better quality too.
a friend of mine built a new house on his old flooded lot ,all steel and use the garage space to build a home theatre.
very nice except his mortgage is 295k and he is over 50 with high blood pressure,he cannot get life insurance except the one offered by his empoyer.
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neonmania
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posted on July 1, 2003 01:08:50 PM new
Reamond. Some people will do this (I've done it myself) but for collectors - the novelty is not in having the footage - it's in having the product. I have a collection of one genre of b-movie videos. Many of them are bootlegs and in that genre, bootlegs are sold openly at at good prices but if an original copy of one of these movies comes along it does not matter if we have the footage already or not, there is going to be a vicious and bloody bidding war for that original copy and for some, that fact that it is now out on DVD is irrelevent - they still want the video.
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
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Dragonmom
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posted on July 2, 2003 07:13:34 AM new
But back to the ORIGINALtopic- shipping costs, remember?
I charge $7.00 for shipping. I use priority, but I take the boxes apart and create triangular mailing tubes out of them- I get three from one large priority box. So, my material is free times three- but there is some labor involved. Every shipped item goes priority and insured, for a minimum of $40.00 and I always add delivery confirm, (unless my husband goes, and he always forgets) I pay as little as $5.50 and as much as $8.00 for postage. So where's my profit? HUH?
It all comes out in the wash....
oh, well.
"And All Shall be Well, and All Shall be Well, and All Manner of Things Shall be Well"
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stopwhining
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posted on July 2, 2003 07:42:33 AM new
so far i have seen sellers ship media mail-use a usps priority box and place it in a bubble envelope and pay media mail rate.
some will turn the box then place it in a bubble envelope.
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neonmania
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posted on July 2, 2003 08:30:50 AM new
Dragon - perhaps you misunderstand. We are talking about people who consciously pad their shipping charges to guarantee their profit.
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
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AuctionAce
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posted on July 2, 2003 08:34:44 AM new
I figure that at least 10% of all Priority Mail boxes are wrapped in brown papper and sent Media Mail and I don't mean the used boxes.
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stopwhining
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posted on July 2, 2003 08:34:55 AM new
do you blame them??as bids are so low,what is wrong with making sure you dont lose your shirt??
we ALL work very hard for our money,so stop whining about shipping fee.if you dont like it,DONT BID!!!!!!!!!!!
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neonmania
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posted on July 2, 2003 08:45:04 AM new
Stop - would you please point out where I whined? I could have sworn that they whole second paragraph is basically the rationale that justifies the action. You are mistaking a thread started to debate the "Fee Avoidance" label that gets thrown at these sellers frequently on this board and to pointout the reason that in many catalogies it has become a nessessary action to stay afloat in some catagories.
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
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stopwhining
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posted on July 2, 2003 09:02:21 AM new
SORRY,I DONT MEAN YOU.The thread has turned into a debate if the seller can use shipping costs to make sure he can stay afloat.
there are two kinds of bidders on ebay-one is the collector who bids to collect ,the other is the reseller who is shopping for something to resell and the shipping cost becomes part of the cost of merchandise.
if i were buying for myself say vhs tapes for my own viewing,i dont mind if they ship media mail versus priority or first class as long as they arrive safe and sound and within reasonable time frame,i dont have to have them in 3-4 days.
but if someone is buying them to resell or she has already presold them,then there is a sense of urgency to have them shipped in expected timeframe,like email 10 times and called 2 times.
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neonmania
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posted on July 2, 2003 09:22:13 AM new
::she has already presold them::
Why would anyone do this? I know there are people who do but how incredibly niave is this. I might line up a buyer on a unique item but in terms of actual presales... never. First, there is no guarantee you will recieve the item. Second, there is no guarantee of the condition of the item upon arrival.
(This is especially niave with video tapes as everyone has a different opinion of quality levels on used videos and often they are not actually checked. )
Mario Andretti - “If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.”
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AuctionAce
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posted on July 2, 2003 09:29:35 AM new
That would be like the folly they call drop shipping.
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davebraun
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posted on July 2, 2003 09:32:09 AM new
Whenever I bid I check the shipping first and factor that into the equation. All I am interested is the bottom line cost to me and whether the item is a stated. If the shipping is too high I subtract that from my bid. If the shipping is not listed I don't bid. I really don't care about the ratio of shipping to reality so long as the total price is within reason. Live and let live.
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stopwhining
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posted on July 2, 2003 10:14:01 AM new
neomania,
there are a lot of that going on!!
sometimes i am asked to ship to a different address,aka the customer of my buyer.
this game can be rather dicey if the seller does not have the goods on hand and think he/she can get it after receiving payment.
take a look at the electronic category,do you really think johnnie and mary who sell from home have all these fancy electronice goods in their living room ready to ship from hewitt packard to dell to ibm to sony to olympus to nikon??
they are all posting a picture and expect their dropshipper to dropship for them.
i dont know how long you have been lurking on this board,there are horror stories on dropshipping ,where do you think the college students get their capital to hoard all the pc,scanners and cameras and servers they list on ebay??
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