fluffythewondercat
|
posted on August 8, 2003 08:43:57 AM new
I send out everything with eDC.
Three weeks ago, bidder "tequila" (not her real name but possibly her drug of choice) bid and won one of my auctions. Her email address was invalid. Reported it, she was NARU'd, life went on.
The same day she was NARU'd, the bidder created another eBay account and resumed bidding on my items. She won one. She paid using PayPal, which was how I was able to connect the two IDs, report her, this one was NARU'd, and I expected life to go on.
At this point I did something stupid: I filled her two orders instead of refunding.
10 days ago she opened a PayPal non-receipt dispute over one of the items. Sure enough, eDC does not show a delivery of that item. (Still doesn't...it's been two weeks since shipped.)
Today PayPal ruled in her favor and yanked the funds out of my account.
So here's what we learn from this experience:
1) Using DC or eDC is NOT a foolproof successful defense against a "chargeback" if USPS drops the ball on delivery or forgets to scan the package.
2) She did NOT pay for insurance. She should have had to eat this loss, but thanks to PayPal, she got her money back.
I think it's likely the package was delivered but never scanned by USPS.
The amount refunded is small, but the bidder (get this) continues to create new eBay accounts and bid on my auctions. She mounted an all-out attack Saturday evening. By the time she gave up, I had had to cancel 35 bids and block four of her phony eBay IDs.
(Yes, I reported it. eBay doesn't care.)
Seller beware.
I am not a bathtub full of brightly-colored machine tools on Vendio.
|
horsey88
|
posted on August 8, 2003 09:22:48 AM new
"She did NOT pay for insurance. She should have had to eat this loss"......Wrong ...Uncle Sammy says you are responible for getting the product to the buyer.
So it should read:"She did NOT pay for insurance. I should have had to eat this loss and I did"......
|
AuctionAce
|
posted on August 8, 2003 09:35:07 AM new
I'm too lazy to look it up on the AW search engine but I seem to remember that there were several discussions here about the use of EDC ( electronic delivery confirmation ) versus regular DC with Paypal. Some posters said that PP would accept DC but not EDC as proof of delivery. That makes no sense but I remember those threads saying that.
-------------- sig file ----------- He who angers you controls you
|
fluffythewondercat
|
posted on August 8, 2003 09:36:26 AM new
Still promoting the same old misinformation, eh, horsey?
I am not a bathtub full of brightly-colored machine tools on Vendio.
|
tomwiii
|
posted on August 8, 2003 09:38:01 AM new
Some observations:
1) The PO admits to a 5% "UN-SCAN" rate with DC -- my rate, since I started attaching a BIG STICKER stating: "DELIVERY PERSON: PLEASE SCAN ME" has been around 99% for the past 18mos!
2) Considering the price paid for eDC ($0.00 - $0.13), I think it be unreasonable to expect 100% scan-rate, & one should take this into consideration when accepting PayPal -- BEST RULE IS: only accept PP amounts you are willing to LOSE 
3) This has happened to me TWICE, & I did this: I looked up the carrier route & then called the local PO & spoke with each carrier! EACH ONE remembered each delivery & agreed to a potential WRITTEN AFADAVIT attesting such! Upon informing each of the "bidders" of this, they MIRACOUSLY discovered to "LOST" packies & re-PAID ME!
4) As usual...HORSEY is FULL of HORSEY!
DON'T LET THESE SCUM-SUCKING PRETZEL-CHOKERS SCAM YOU!
 
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
[ edited by tomwiii on Aug 8, 2003 09:54 AM ]
|
tomwiii
|
posted on August 8, 2003 09:38:44 AM new
AA Ye be INCORRECT about eDC!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
|
horsey88
|
posted on August 8, 2003 09:43:57 AM new
Some folks will obviously never learn. If you expected Paypal to do what you are saying then sellers could simply create an eDC don't mail the package and Paypal would rule in the seller's favor.
As for the insurance the same would apply,you could just not ship any package that the buyer refused to insure and by your take "She did NOT pay for insurance. She should have had to eat this loss"
[ edited by horsey88 on Aug 8, 2003 09:55 AM ]
|
wgm
|
posted on August 8, 2003 09:44:36 AM new
eDC DID protect me on a PayPal transaction that a customer claimed to have not received the item.
When I ship an item that has been paid for via PP, I staple the lower portion of the DC receipt print-out to the PayPal email I receive, and both of these are postmarked at the PO.
When my customer submitted their claim, I faxed both copies to PP as proof. The customer emailed me the next day, apologizing...saying the package had come and her husband "put it in the closet and forgot to tell her" LOL
sorry this happened to you, fluffy
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
|
horsey88
|
posted on August 8, 2003 09:47:09 AM new
And for the record Paypal has honored 3 cases of mine that involved eDC and I won them all. DC is DC,is eDC,is DC.
|
fluffythewondercat
|
posted on August 8, 2003 10:24:00 AM new
horsey: I must say your concern for the rights of the known scamster is very touching. Almost brings a tear to my eye, it does. Doesn't matter that this woman has had 6 eBay ids NARU'd now, I guess.
Oh, by the way folks, (and THANK YOU EBAY) she has yet another email address which was on the PayPal refund but which I cannot now find the corresponding eBay user id for, because of the new rules.
In other words, she's set up to start attacking my auctions again and I can't block her ahead of time. You can't use an email address in your Bidder Block list any more. Some people may not be aware of that wrinkle yet.
I don't know about you folks, but I have a life, part of which I had to miss out on last Saturday night because Miss Vicious decided to hit the sauce and have some fun. She bid with less than 30 seconds to go so as to make sure she'd hit at least one auction before I blocked the newest ID.
It would be great if you could wildcard the Bidder Block list. In this case, I'd like to block *@charter.net. Legitimate bidders could write to be unblocked individually.
Would eBay implement that? Nah!
I am not a bathtub full of brightly-colored machine tools on Vendio.
|
horsey88
|
posted on August 8, 2003 10:34:18 AM new
Fluffy..I am sorry that you misinterpreted my take on the known facts of how things work for "concern for the rights of the known scamster".
I am also grateful that I opted for brains instaed of trains.
|
AuctionAce
|
posted on August 8, 2003 11:24:35 AM new
I'm confussed again. An ebay seller can't put an email address in a BBL. That makes sense with ebay's current drive to rid the system of the use of email address as ebay IDs.
The part that confuses me why can't an ebay seller convert that email address to it's ebay ID? That function is still there but ebay added an extra step to the process.
As to the ability of malicious bidders messing up a person's auctions, there is almost nothing that can be done to stop this activity when the malicios bidder is clever and has a wallet or purse full of credit cards. That is one very good reason to never anger the bidders. If a seller has a strict TOS or semi-excessive s/h then they are that much more vulnerable to posible harassment from disgruntled buyers.
-------------- sig file ----------- He who angers you controls you
|
REAMOND
|
posted on August 8, 2003 12:09:39 PM new
1) Using DC or eDC is NOT a foolproof successful defense against a "chargeback" if USPS drops the ball on delivery or forgets to scan the package.
DC or eDC is no good if not scanned. DC is not insurance either. The item can be scanned/delivered but damaged and the seller is subject to a charge back
2) She did NOT pay for insurance. She should have had to eat this loss, but thanks to PayPal, she got her money back.
horsey is right. It is the seller's responsibility to get the item as ordered to the customer, period. Why let the buyer opt out of insurance ? Anything I ship that either I can not replace or I don't want to eat the loss I include insurance in the shipping cost and do not tell the buyer. Having insurance optional is silly. By the way, I laugh at these sellers that state all sales are final and if the buyer doesn't buy insurance they are not responsible and they accept Paypal or credit cards.
[ edited by REAMOND on Aug 8, 2003 12:12 PM ]
|
mezuzas
|
posted on August 8, 2003 12:48:01 PM new
ebay no longer shows you the user id for an email address, it just verifies that it's an active email addy on ebay. All this does is protect scammers.
|
AuctionAce
|
posted on August 8, 2003 01:25:06 PM new
ebay no longer shows you the user id for an email address, it just verifies that it's an active email addy on ebay. All this does is protect scammers.
That has to be wrong. I just double checked by placing the email addy of a recent buyer buyer in the 'Request User ID' box and got their ebay ID.
There are so many lazy postal workers that won't scan DCs that having an occasional PP chargeback must be an acceptable gamble when using PP?
Added to say .. If that is an acceptable thing to do with Paypal ( chargeback when edc or dc no scanned ) then it may not take long before buyers demand the DC numbers to see if they can get a free chargeback because they have a lazy postman.
I recently bought a low priced item on ebay and the seller offered $1 insurance and said if it was lost in mail then it was tough sh!t for me without it. When I went to pay by Paypal they offered their guarantee thingie for only 74 cents. I was tempted to by PP's insurance as it would be less hassle and cheaper than the seller's self insure or postal insurance. ( I opted for no insurance at all )
-------------- sig file ----------- He who angers you controls you
[ edited by AuctionAce on Aug 8, 2003 01:33 PM ]
|
BIGPEEPA
|
posted on August 8, 2003 01:54:59 PM new
HORSEY88, It will be a cold day in you know where when I pay for an item that the buyer was to cheap to buy insurance for. I couldn't care less how many NEGS jerks like that hand out. I really despise slimey bottom feeders.
|
tomwiii
|
posted on August 8, 2003 02:09:39 PM new
Basically, I always OFFER U-PIC insurance -- if they don't buy it, I quietly do so on my own, in order to CMA!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?"
http://tinyurl.com/5duz
|
BIGPEEPA
|
posted on August 8, 2003 02:10:40 PM new
horsey88, you posted
posted on August 8, 2003 09:47:09 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And for the record Paypal has honored 3 cases of mine that involved eDC and I won them all. DC is DC,is eDC,is DC. Are you trying to say 3 items didn't get delivered to you all 3 were lost.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If that is what you are saying in my opion you must be nothing but a horsey something else.
|
AuctionAce
|
posted on August 8, 2003 02:16:10 PM new
Does the insurance cover the loss against chargebacks on PP payments? I guess the buyer gets the item for free and you get the money back from the insurance. As long as the incidence rate is very low I guess that is acceptable.
How does the PP insurance work? Does PP just eat the cost of an occassional lost package or try to get something back from the seller? I'm begining to think the PP insurance is a deal for the buyer.
-------------- sig file ----------- He who angers you controls you
|
dadofstickboy
|
posted on August 8, 2003 02:24:41 PM new
Does the insurance cover the loss against chargebacks on PP payments? I guess the buyer gets the item for free and you get the money back from the insurance
Problem with that is in order for ins. to work both parties need to fill out the forms.
I buyer gets money back from chargeback, doubtful he'll be willing to fill out ins. forms to help you get you're money back!
|
stopwhining
|
posted on August 8, 2003 02:28:35 PM new
paypal insurance-if you are not happy with your item,you can return it to paypal and get the money back from paypal.
what does paypal do when buyer claims she/he did not receive the item??i would think paypal will refund the buyer and come after the seller,demanding dc confirmation and signature receipt if over 250 dollars/
what does paypal do with all those returned items??sell on ebay.
fluffy,
it sounds like you have created an enemy for yourself by having her naru'd not once but twice.
there are a lot of vicious petty bidders and sellers on ebay.
-sig file -------They may have ginsu knife,but we have DING KING!!!!
|
mcjane
|
posted on August 8, 2003 02:56:22 PM new
Seems to be no PAL in Paypal, should be renamed Catch22
How does a buyer know if his DC has been scanned of not?
|
neroter12
|
posted on August 8, 2003 02:58:05 PM new
Fluffy,
Please tell me you have CALLED ebay and not just the email stuff! I would be livid if I were you! This is auction interference!!
Is your business worth anything to EBAY verses this bogus buyer?? They need to block her IP address entirely.
I also kinda wonder if some federal communication law thing doesnt apply, too. You know like someone interferring with your phone or cable? I dont know if internet communications are in anyway covered under that. I think last I read, they were working that in somewhere.
ps. how many auctions do you all read that TOS say "seller not responsible if buyer doesnt choose insurance?" Seems like that is on almost every one I see.
|
AuctionAce
|
posted on August 8, 2003 03:11:43 PM new
I think PP only offers insurance on some sellers.
The buyer would only know if the item was scanned if they had the DC tracking number. I've had buyers ask for the number when they paid for an item.
The postal insurance wouldn't work then if both sides won't fill out the paperwork. What about the U-PIC insurance? I seem to remember reading that they had no-hassle refunds.
-------------- sig file ----------- He who angers you controls you
|
dadofstickboy
|
posted on August 8, 2003 03:12:26 PM new
Seems to be no PAL in Paypal, should be renamed Catch22
Thats not quite true.
I had a charge back,the customer tried to get all his money back on a 3 item deal.
I sent paypal less info than they asked for.
Basically the URL's for the auctions in question.
And even though he did get some money back it was only, the amount of one item.
So I feel they did a little leg work to save me some money!
They could have given him a full refund, but they didn't!
Follow the user agreement and they will work, with & for you!
There have been some with big problems,But if you read between the lines, they brought it on they're selves!
|
fluffythewondercat
|
posted on August 8, 2003 03:13:49 PM new
Hi neroter12:
Nah, eBay's not interested. I haven't even gotten a canned response to my thoroughly-documented complaint and that was sent nearly a week ago.
The trouble with blocking her IP address is that it is probably dynamically assigned, as is so often the case with DSL and cable modems. She keeps whichever one she has until she reboots her machine.
I'm gathering all the information I can on her, just in case this hasn't ended yet. I'm willing to spend a couple hundred bucks on a lawyer consult and a cease-and-desist letter on official letterhead. I know that whenever *I* get an envelope with a law firm's return address it sends chills down my spine.
I am not a bathtub full of brightly-colored machine tools on Vendio.
|
fluffythewondercat
|
posted on August 8, 2003 03:19:27 PM new
fluffy, it sounds like you have created an enemy for yourself by having her naru'd not once but twice.
Six times now and counting. One of her userids was so obscene that eBay removed it and put her account number in the database instead. (Note that eBay had no problem with her CREATING it in the first place, but I digress.)
I've played this "dead email address" thing both ways. For one lady, I didn't turn her in; I just forwarded her EOAs to her new address (which she insisted eBay would not "accept" . She continued shopping with me. Then the last time she didn't get the EOA as promptly as she thought she should (since I was doing it manually for her) and she threatened to report me to eBay.
I don't like threats. That's it. No more exceptions. I turned her in and now she's NARU'd with the wind.
Changing your eBay-registered email address is really easy. You don't have to have access to the old account to do it, but many people seem to think you do.
I am not a bathtub full of brightly-colored machine tools on Vendio.
[ edited by fluffythewondercat on Aug 8, 2003 03:27 PM ]
|
fluffythewondercat
|
posted on August 8, 2003 03:25:33 PM new
ebay no longer shows you the user id for an email address, it just verifies that it's an active email addy on ebay. All this does is protect scammers.
"That has to be wrong. I just double checked by placing the email addy of a recent buyer buyer in the 'Request User ID' box and got their ebay ID. "
Right. But notice what you did. You used the address of one of your BUYERS.
What if you want to get the user id of someone who hasn't bought from you (or sold to you)?
You can't.
There are a couple (okay, maybe more than a couple ) of borderline mentally-ill people wandering the jewelry categories and sending barely-coherent email. It would be useful to be able to block these people.
I am not a bathtub full of brightly-colored machine tools on Vendio.
|
AuctionAce
|
posted on August 8, 2003 03:36:48 PM new
I hear what you say about buyers not wanting to update their ebay email address. It's simple to do but many won't do it.
I send out an EOA email very soon after an auction closes and get back a lot of dead emails. I instantly turn them in to ebay for having bad contact info. Some write with a different email address or even pay via Paypal with a different email address. If they are quick enough, that allows them to still buy on ebay with invalid email info. I still turn them in and let them work it out with ebay after they get NARUed.
-------------- sig file ----------- He who angers you controls you
|
horsey88
|
posted on August 8, 2003 06:00:15 PM new
Bigpeepa..Your "opion" was briefly noted before it was disregarded.
[ edited by horsey88 on Aug 8, 2003 07:53 PM ]
|
