posted on November 14, 2003 01:05:14 PM new
Whoever says common sense isn't common is right...
I don't normally post about problems on this board, but thought some of you out there might find this mess interesting.
I recently had two of my auctions pulled off of Ebay due to a Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) informing Ebay that my items were infringing their copyright. This company is Timex, and no, I don't mind saying who. I sell some nifty carabiner style clip watches made by Smith & Wesson that, apparently, Timex feels were copied from their product. They even sent me a copy of the patent, complete with drawings. I will try to post pics of the two here so you can see the differences. If it doesn't work I hope one of you kind souls can do so for me.
Personally, my contention is that the designs are so dissimilar that there is no possible way for a reasonable, average person (a lot to ask sometimes, I know!) to mistake one from another; they are completely different. Even the clip mechanisms are different designs.
The watches are clearly marked Smith & Wesson and they are authentic product, not knock offs. No reference to Timex was ever in the auction listing. We have been listing and selling these watches for over a year now and this is the very first time there has been any trouble with Ebay about them being a VeRO violation.
Of course in the meantime, while I wrangle with the Timex legal department about what is common sense and reasonable, I can't relist them for fear of them getting pulled again, and having ALL of my auctions shut down; not an alternative. Plus I am losing sales on a great gift item during the holiday buying season; they did great guns last year. Some timing, eh?
The only thing I am wondering about is why does the company come after me and not the maker, if they are so concerned about a potential (note the wording here) infringment of their copyright? Oh yes, one more thing. Timex asked me to forward the name, address,and phone number of my supplier, PLUS they even asked for copies of my invoices!
Any comments are welcome and will be read and responded to, as needs be. Thanks for reading.
[ edited by sword013 on Nov 14, 2003 01:07 PM ]
[ edited by sword013 on Nov 14, 2003 02:06 PM ]
[ edited by sword013 on Nov 14, 2003 02:07 PM ]
[ edited by sword013 on Nov 14, 2003 02:23 PM ]
[ edited by sword013 on Nov 14, 2003 02:32 PM ]
posted on November 14, 2003 01:46:01 PM new
Anything is possible but they made no mention of it, and S&W still has all of the watches available on their own website.
posted on November 14, 2003 01:54:01 PM new
If memory serves me correctly, there is a dispute form associated with the Vero program that you can fill out, if you feel your items are not in violation of the Vero program. At this time I do not remember if it was sent to me by ebay or if I found it on their website.
posted on November 14, 2003 01:57:49 PM new
sword - I am trying to post the photos for you, and it doesn't seem to be working. Can you right click on the photos to get the properties and paste that here? I will be glad to post for you.
or you can do it like this...
[ img]web address of photo[/ img]
to make it work, don't skip a space between the bracket and img
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
[ edited by wgm on Nov 14, 2003 01:58 PM ]
[ edited by wgm on Nov 14, 2003 01:59 PM ]
[ edited by wgm on Nov 14, 2003 02:00 PM ]
[ edited by wgm on Nov 14, 2003 02:03 PM ]
[ edited by wgm on Nov 14, 2003 02:04 PM ]
posted on November 14, 2003 02:07:04 PM new
Is that the copy and pasted web address from the image properties? I still can't get it to work...
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
[ edited by wgm on Nov 14, 2003 02:07 PM ]
[ edited by wgm on Nov 14, 2003 02:08 PM ]
posted on November 14, 2003 02:20:52 PM new
Sure is. Friday night on AOHell...sigh. I really appreciate your trying though. I'll keep trying to edit the first one myself.
posted on November 14, 2003 02:25:03 PM new
It may be easier if you upload the photos to Vendio
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 14, 2003 02:27:00 PM new
Yay for me! Personally I think the timex looks cheesy. Give me the Smith and Wesson any day. I think timex knows it is outclassed. I think you should dispute this one Sword013.
Regards,
Adrian
[ edited by zircon4 on Nov 14, 2003 02:34 PM ]
posted on November 14, 2003 02:33:56 PM new
wtg zircon!!
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 14, 2003 02:35:49 PM new
I agree with cheryl.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 14, 2003 02:41:33 PM new
I may be going blind from staring at a computer monitor day in and day out, but that's what I thought too. It would be interesting if I had the time, money and resources to persue this legally. I do not know how any judge in their right mind (or part of a right mind) could say that they are similar in design. VeRO strikes again...
I will likely not get any reply from Timex on this until Monday but I will post an update when and if it comes in. I will say that their legal department responded to my initial email within 4 hours time, which suprised the socks off of me. That's why I am persuing the possibility that they may be reasonable, see the difference and give me their permission to relist to Ebay. Otherwise I will have to send the whole lot back and eat a 15% restocking fee. OY!
posted on November 14, 2003 02:42:52 PM new
My situation was kind of similar and maybe could shed some light. Recently I had listed a Shake Flashlight made by Forever Flashlights (needs no batteries, you shake it and it recharges itself). I was Veroed by Wireless Alarm Products who didn't answer my email until I filed with Ebay disputing the Vero (if you want that form let me know - I saved it on my computer)
Wireless Alarm Products emailed me back and said they invented the idea of the Shake recharge and is in the process of suing Forever Flashlights, Sharper Image and numerous other companies for copying it. They emailed me a copy of the suit they filed and I researched the patent number which was registered to them. They also asked where I obtained the flashlights, what I paid, etc.
I only bought 10 from the distributer, so I'm just going to give them as Christmas presents instead of fighting the Vero.
(sorry, I can't help you with the pictures either)
posted on November 14, 2003 02:55:44 PM new
ihula -
Similar or not, I appreciate the input. I do not know if the form will help me or not, but if you'd care to send it along, please send to [email protected].
Timex also asked me where I obtained the watches and, as previously stated, even asked for copies of my purchase invoices, which really galls me. It's no one's business who I buy from, as long as I am selling perfectly legal products. As I do this full time for a living, I am not about to jeopardize it with selling junk, bad quality or illegal items, which can get tricky in my main line of knives and swords.
posted on November 14, 2003 02:58:12 PM new
NearTheSea -
Ya know, it's a funny thing. I can see the similarities between that watch and the Timex. My supplier has those as well but when they were first offered, my little voice told me to pass on them. I never doubt my instincts! :^)
posted on November 14, 2003 03:01:14 PM new
That's also a part of my arguement, that they are all marked very clearly front and back. I can see where there might be a little confusion on that particular model, but one glance would tell someone that it's not a Timex or even a Timex knock-off.
posted on November 14, 2003 03:20:15 PM new
sword, looking at the two that 'sorta maybe' look similar, they really don't! Besides Smith and Wesson clearly marked on the blue one, there is a bunch of other differences.
I really like the one you picked that one is cool
I don't see where some of these Vero's get off! I'd be p*ssed! Good luck!
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
posted on November 14, 2003 03:26:41 PM new
I read somewhere ( AuctionBytes? ) fairly recently that Ranger software was offering Vero members new improved ebay searching software that automatically presents any violators found. Before they had to look or have ebayers turn in the vero violations but now software searches all of ebay and finds the violators.
posted on November 14, 2003 05:27:49 PM new
Sword, maybe you should talk to a lawyer. I am not one or even in the field, but it seems to me that Timex's beef, if anything, is with S&W, and at this point if there is no current litigation, unless they get some kind of order/injunction from a judge, they shouldn't have the right to pull down your auctions as a third party distributor. (I could be wrong, but that is the opinon I am of, and what sounds logical to me.) Why dont they go thru every retail outlet selling the simlar S&W's too, and pull those off the shelves??
As stated: "what a crock!"
(big time bummer they hit you with this at xmas sales. It is a nice watch. Good luck to you!)
