posted on November 14, 2003 06:39:30 PM new
Maybe an eBay seller turned you into TimeX. Check to see if anyone else is selling those watches. Check to see if they are still selling them and also check to see how sales were going for them. It doesn't seem to me that Timex who wholesales watches to any tom, dick or harry, sorry guys, would even get into a discussion like this. Seem fishy to me. I prefer the S&W to the Timex one.
posted on November 14, 2003 07:21:35 PM new
I think the whole VERO thing is very similar to selling illegal stuff on ebay. Ebay seeks out the illegal stuff with software and doesn't count on people finding it for them. The VERO sellers seek out the violators or have software programs do it for them. Then they have special access to ebay to get the violators promptly booted.
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posted on November 14, 2003 07:45:55 PM new
NearTheSea -
I agree that there are some similarities, especially with the pic of the one you posted, but they are really not that close at all. Thanks for the compliment on my product tastes! I do try to get nice stuff whenever possible and all have liked them that have bought them.
I could have gotten pi**ed but opted for the reasonable approach. If they have enough talent to respond in four hours from a large, corporate legal department, there may be hope.
AuctionAce -
While I have no problem with VeRO software, I do have a problem with brainless people using it indiscriminately and without regard for the effects it may have. It is my opinion that the whole VeRO program gives large companies too much power over small ones, and individuals, who are only trying to make an honest buck online. Ebay is no help either, taking someones word for it and then burying their heads in the sand (only a venue, suuuuure).
neroter12 -
It is an option (litigation) that I have considered, but one that may likely be out of reach for me. I agree with your assesment that their problem, if there really is one, would be with S&W and not me concerning copyright infringement. The simple reason that they aren't going after every retail outlet is effort. Anyone who can look at a screen and click a few buttons can find potentially infringing items; they don't have to send agents driving all over god's country looking for them. What with Ebay giving them the power to have these auctions pulled, the legals can get their jobs done with the click of a mouse, look great to the higher-ups and appear cost effective to the bean counters.
Hmm, come to think of it, isn't the VeRO program like a court injunction, without the judge? Makes one wonder about the legalities of that...
posted on November 14, 2003 07:50:02 PM new
Libra63 -
It could have been another seller, but somehow I doubt it. I did a search and no one is currently selling these watches (S&W). The only ones I can find for the past month are my auctions. I agree that it is fishy that they are bothering with something like this, but see my response to nerotor12 above. I think it pretty much sums it up.
[ edited by sword013 on Nov 14, 2003 07:50 PM ]
posted on November 14, 2003 07:56:39 PM new
Good eye Adrian! Sure looks like the Timex but without any mention of the maker. Also interesting that the title say "drug rep watch" and then there i no info on that in the description. Keyword spamming in the title?
Just did some checking and it is a Timex with a custom imprint. They do batches like this by special order as company giveaways or premiums. Curious they would put a drug companies name on their watch and have a problem with mine, don't ya think? :^)
posted on November 14, 2003 08:15:08 PM new
sword, *maybe* it was another seller? I only say this because there are a couple Smith and Wesson of that style, (maybe the same one, not sure) running right now on ebay.
I've heard this before, one gets shut down, and then find others that never do, that have the same item, and I wondered what was up with that???
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posted on November 14, 2003 08:20:06 PM new
oooops I see zircon found them. On or two have only 2 days to go too, and they are the same carabineer style ones
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posted on November 14, 2003 09:17:26 PM new
Sword, you may not have the resources to fight it, but S&W does. I would get in touch with your distributor, and through them, with S&W and provide them with any information Timex sends you that indicates the S&W product is infringing. If they are making that assertion, then S&W needs to know about it(maybe already does if a lawsuit has been filed). OTOH, if a lawsuit has not been filed, then you have to ask yourself why. Timex may just be trying to intimidate people selling the S&W product to gain a competitive advantage. It could be that they have no intention of filing a lawsuit, because they know the product does not truly infringe, but they can threaten small players like you because they know you don't have the resources to fight them. Either way, let your distributor and S&W handle the fight--and no, I would not turn over information to Timex unless they can provide you with a court order. If it truly is an infringing product, and S&W knows it, then you should not have to pay a restocking fee to return the product.
posted on November 15, 2003 06:57:47 AM new
fleecies -
Thanks for the opinions. I do plan on letting my distributor know about this little development and I am sure they will contact S&W. I agree with you in that it may just be an intimidation tactic but in this case, it's not going to work as I am not reacting emotionally, which is what they want, I would guess. I am trying to open an reasonable, intelligent discussion with the company, which I am sure they are not used to from a VeRO'ed Ebay seller. I also know enough "legalize" to get the proper amount of attention to my emails. At the moment I am hoping that they will read them and figure that I am really not worth fooling with; too much headache for them.
In any case, it is not roll over and die time, at least not yet. On the bottom line I may or may not have any effect in all of this but I have learned that it never pays to remain silent and just accept it. I do have one reversal of an ended auction to my credit in the past, so anything is possible.
posted on November 20, 2003 06:55:33 AM new
Well folks, here goes the update -
I wrote to Timex only to get the "canned" response, saying the watch was infringing, a copy of their copyright attached, etc. Emailed back saying that there is no possible way for these items to be confused, considering the differences in appearance, design, etc. I even attached the pics you have seen here of both watches. Requested a copy of any lawsuits filed against Smith & Wesson for copyright infringment. This was on 11/13/03. To date I have gotten no response from Timex legal.
After rewritting the listings for the watches to take out any refference to them being "clip watches," I relisted them. One sold immediately and then relisted. Last night (11/19/03) Ebay VeRO'ed one of them again, but left the other one running! Rather inconsistant.
I have written again to both Ebay and Timex but expect nothing but the usual canned responses. I am also considering calling Timex legal in order to get a straight answer (yeah right) about all of this. It's not over yet, but I am likely not going to relist the watches in order to protect my account from being NARU'ed.
posted on November 20, 2003 07:40:56 AM new
Sword, you might try writing to Smith &Wesson, they would want to protect their sales.
"And All Shall be Well, and All Shall be Well, and All Manner of Things Shall be Well"
posted on November 20, 2003 08:21:31 AM new
Dragonmom -
Point taken and done! Just sent all of the info to them by email. We will see what they have to say, if anything. I can't imagine that they wouldn't respond, considering that a major portion of their non-gun product line could be at risk. Updates to follow...
posted on November 21, 2003 03:05:04 PM new
Fax a counter notice to Ebay.
You can get a copy here.
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/Vero/CounterNotice.html
I have done this a few times and it works great. Dont relist and risk supension. Do this first.
The VeRO Member generally has 14 days from the day you file your NOTICE to respond with a restraining order lawsuit, under the DMCA.
After one files a US COUNTER NOTICE with eBay by fax, it takes eBay staff about 72 hours to respond these days.
No need to keep emailing them. They KNOW you filed your COUNTER. If you don't hear from them within 72 hours, then follow up with calls, and an email.
EBay plays games with the 14-day timeline, so one wants to keep on top of them, but you can let them breathe a little. The DMCA says 14 days, but eBay has little things they pull to run it longer.
Note, eBay reacts best to certified or registered mail. One can always followup a COUNTER NOTICE filing with a certified letter to confirm that a COUNTER was sent in by fax on a certain date.
