posted on January 10, 2004 05:49:31 PM new
This question might sound sophomoric to those of you who are veterans, but I was wondering today, do they buy the entire contents of the estate before the sale? And what happens to the things that do not sell?
Reason I ask is (and this has occurred to me before) sometimes I think they 'bring in' other inventory that is not from that particular estate.
I am sure some of you may even do this in real life. (Do you, Kiara?) Just wondering and bored of searching/listing - thought I'd ask.
posted on January 10, 2004 06:04:07 PM new
Most professionally run estate sales here (Milwaukee) are run on a commission basis.
There are several long established firms that do a great job for the owners of the estates.
Some of the companies have outlet stores that end up with items not sold during the estate sale.
There is at least one estate seller that does bring some of his own merchandise to mix in with actual estate items. Kind of tacky IMHO.
Life is not a dress rehearsal
posted on January 10, 2004 06:07:20 PM new
same as people who have garage sales every week,they are just selling regular merchandise
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on January 10, 2004 06:23:31 PM new
So they only make a commission on what is actually sold then? Like a set percentage of total sales. I kinda thought they buy the whole thing and what doesnt sell, other venues are found, i.e, auctions, flea market sellers etc. I think most here are pretty legit. (There are some who I personally like better, but that is just preference.)
Funny it came to mind today -- what would stop somebody, say a collector with a shop and maybe some connections in real estate, to get a house that is soon to be sold, put all their stuff in it and call it an estate sale??? It cant be illegal or anything to do that?
posted on January 10, 2004 06:33:40 PM new
Here in wealthy Burlingame and ultrawealthy Hillsborough, one or more antique dealers team up with a real estate agent. The agent opens his listed house (which is empty) and the dealers fill it.
posted on January 10, 2004 07:13:03 PM new
There are as many types of estate sales as there are types of people who do them.
Some sales are done by the families alone.
Some done after the family has had an appraiser provide them with pricing on the more collectible items.
Some done by professional estate liquidation companies.
Some done by out of town dealers who rent houses and load them up.
Some done by in town dealers who load them up.
I have seen estate liquidators who take customer bids on the remaining items and some who offer the family a lump sum on any remainders and some who do only the sale and advise the family to donate anything left.
It is not unusual or professionally unethical to "enhance" a sale with quality collectibles if the estate is not large enough or interesting enough to meet the level expected of an established estate professional or auctioneer. Some people actually look forward to possibly seeing a piece they wavered on at a previous sale, hoping to get a better deal this time around.
As in any business, it is up to the buyer to be informed. Most honest sellers will tell you the origins of the house contents.
When you go to a yard sale, do you care if the item you are buying belongs to the home owner or the neighbor?
If the items are something you want and the price is something you are willing to pay, why question??
Now, with that said, I too am irked when I see reproductions being sold as antiques, out of town fly by nights who won't be there when you find out the 10 carat estate diamond ring you bought is fake, all manner of junk being sold as something it is not. But in all of these conditions, it is up to the customer to know what he is buying and from whom.
Also in most areas, estate liquidators are licensed and must collect sales tax. Ask to see their license. If they can not provide you with a license or collect sales taxes, call the proper authorities immediately. These people are the ones who give the business a bad name!
posted on January 10, 2004 07:14:06 PM new
Hi, so far you guys and gals haven't explained 1/10 of what goes on at Estate Sales, before, during and after the sale. Some good some bad depending what side of the fence your on.
posted on January 10, 2004 07:17:22 PM new
Oops, in my 101 Course on Estate Sales, I forgot to mention that as a dealer, I bought whole estates.
The best pieces I kept for my shop. Other pieces I sent to an auction and the rest I had regular buyers for. I have found there are buyers for anything.
"Pickers" love it when you call and tell them you have 20 boxes of stuff for $100.
posted on January 10, 2004 07:18:52 PM new
There's a lot of garage sales that are called estate sales to trick some extra buyers into making a visit. There are some estate sales that are just a bunch of garage sales in one location.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
posted on January 10, 2004 07:28:12 PM new
I don't live in a large city so most true estate sales I've gone to are held by the family of the deceased. Sometimes this includes a family member who thinks they are going to retire on the profits of a few picked over trinkets that Aunt Martha treasured.
I've missed many sales because I've been working but I've gone to some where the dealers leave bids on items and then are called back if theirs was the highest. Other times I have been contacted directly by a family member because of my business name in the phone book or they've been in my shop or by a reference from someone else.
Sometimes I've had to agree to buy it all, the good, the bad and the ugly. But ugly sells good at times. It's a chore hauling it all, sorting it and storing it but it's also fun.
There have been good and bad experiences. I learned and made mistakes along the way, like the time I paid upfront and they gleamed off a lot of goodies before I could get back the next day. I have also had to deal with family members who got greedy afterwards and wanted things back again.
posted on January 10, 2004 07:36:44 PM new
Kaira,
I had the same happen to me. I finally started making the family sign a contract and collect the keys before we finalized a deal.
The family would always have remorse about one piece or other. "Oh, I didn't mean to include that..., yada, yada."
Not a problem, you take out what you really want to keep. I come for an inspection, takes pictures, make my offer and if anything is removed from the house after we sign our deal, the contract is null and void. Period! And I mean, you had better not even empty the trash can. You want Grandmothers tea set after that and you can come buy it in my shop.
Sounds harsh, but my offer was always fair and based upon the pieces I know I could make a profit on. It takes 100s of hours to sort and price, pack move and carry a good estate. You can not afford to have the family "cherry pick" after you have made your offer.
posted on January 10, 2004 07:37:05 PM new
Where I live, not far from max40, most estate sales are only the contents of the house. I imagine if the estate sale is small that a dealer might by the contents and then bring in merchandise of their own. There is no way for a dealer to separate their belongings from the house belongings.
posted on January 10, 2004 08:40:32 PM new
ltray, thanks for writing that. Anyone who has experienced this will know it's not harsh to do things the way you do them now.
We always hear all the stories about the rip-off dealers but seldom hear the dealer's side of the story.
posted on January 10, 2004 10:12:53 PM new
kiara, Not all Estate Sales are like this but a good many are.
#1- dealers are let in to buy before the sale is open to the public.
#2- if its a tag sale sometime dealers are given a preview before the sale. They hire someone to get there early (be one of the first in the door) with a list of items the dealer wants.
#3-Favors or pay off to Estate lawyers that get the sale for ya.
#4- Small very good items come up missing no one knows where they got to.
#5- a few tags are pulled but the price is not marked down until the next day when items are reduced.
#6- dealers get together and "POOL" the items they buy. Rug dealers do that a lot at both Estate Sales and Auctions.
There is more (tricks of the trade) but let someone else tell you guys. I am tired its late and I am off to bed.
posted on January 10, 2004 10:50:50 PM new
Bigpeepa, I've heard of some of those tricks of the trade. There are lots of dealers in my area and some are very aggressive and I gave up trying to compete with them many years ago.
Some sellers don't have storefronts and operate under the guise of "private collector" and seem to get all the good deals and don't have to pay the costs or taxes like I do. Some even advertise for things in the paper as "trustworthy" yet I have seen five of them in my area that have shilled their own auctions on ebay. I realize that I will never get rich at this because I can't ever be like them and sleep at night.
There are also unscrupulous real estate agents who get their share of goodies before the house is cleaned out.
For anyone leaving bids on items and then getting called back because you have the high bid, please check over the items carefully for damage because many others may have handled them in the meantime. I learned that lesson the hard way also.
posted on January 10, 2004 10:51:08 PM newThis question might sound sophomoric to those of you who are veterans, but I was wondering today, do they buy the entire contents of the estate before the sale? And what happens to the things that do not sell?
It depends upon the situation and contract. Sometimes the Estate sales company will buy the whole estate and turn and have a sale asap to sell off the majority of items. Then the rest may go to a shop or even to auction.
Most of the time, you will find that there is a contract and they generally will work off of a commision basis. The commision will depend upon the specifics in contract and will vary depending upon the situation. You ask what happens to the items left unsold. That again depends upon the contract and the seller. If you get a good seller, generally you won't have enough left to worry about and generally the left overs should be scrapped anyway. If you get a seller that thinks everything is worth a fortune, there will be left over items. In many cases the families of the deceased are left holding the bag having to sell the leftovers on their own. Usually this type of seller is an antique dealer where their sense of fair pricing is way out of wack to what is going on in the online world. Most true estate sellers will have a very good sell through rate once the sale is over. Just like any sale though, you can find a real bargain and you can find items priced way out of their range.
posted on January 11, 2004 03:43:44 AM new
what an interesting thread.
i have been to all kinds of estate sales, most good but some are really bad.
if they are held by the family, you can find some real gems amidst the ordinary. if they are held by an "estate sale" contract company, you may find items from multiple small estates combined into one sale.
i also have dealer friends who have purchased entire estates and then had their own sale after pulling the items they wanted for their shop.
a couple that i work with had an estate sale combining their aunt, his father and her mothers items. all passed away within 3 months of each other. i warned them not to throw anything away, even those old grocery store premium stamps are worth money. they already had pitched about 20 community cookbooks but thank goodness had not put them in the dumpster.
posted on January 11, 2004 05:34:57 AM new
Find you pay more at Estate Sales, but chances of finding something more valuable or sellable are better.
I don't think I care if they bring things in, but I will say, it does sorta taint the 'experience' for me. Seems to me, you can almost kind of tell by the house, the theme and condition of what's running through it.
Bigpeepa, its good to know you are here to post your knowledge on the ups and downs. I hadn't much thought about it, but certainly antique dealers etc., must be the easiest market for scammers and repros as somebody else posted.
I know they have to be licensed, unless its the family doing it -- but does anybody care about that, the "average" buyer -- when they go? I never did. I pretty much accepted what is laid out at face value.
I am going to be a little more scrutinizing now.
edited to add:
Raffrifle, I know! Those community cookbooks are very hot sellers on ebay. I had a few thinking, ah, they probably wont do that well but I'll put em' on. I was surprized at the bids they got!
[ edited by neroter12 on Jan 11, 2004 05:42 AM ]
posted on January 11, 2004 05:44:47 AM new
To know about Estate Sales you have to go to them in your area and learn who the people are doing them and how they run them. In my area there are about 10 people doing estates and about 10 ways of doing them. I have been buying from 6 of these people for about 15 years.
4 of the people I deal with let me come in before the sale and buy what I want. To be on this list of buyers I have found you must buy a lot and never ask for a discount price. The other 2 advertise sales for 9am and open at 6am so if you know them you know to come at 6am.
The other 4 that I do not go to their sales all drag around a bunch of junk from sale to sale and pick all the good stuff out to sell on eBay before the sale. 1 of these 4 recently went to jail for selling items on eBay that he showed he sold at the Estate sale for a small percentage of the value. These items were never at the estate sale he took them before it opened. A family member went to the Estate sale to purchase some of these items and called the police when they were not there. That family member found he had them for sale on eBay. He was arrested and he can no longer do estate sales.
posted on January 11, 2004 06:30:57 AM new
Thanks toolhound for giving us that about the estate sale person. I am sure I have encounted that where I live, but of course can't prove it.
I have gotten some really good deals but I don't go early any more. After the dealers skim the merchandise off the top there is a lot left. I have made some fantastic buys going late in a morning.
posted on January 11, 2004 07:44:10 AM new
I have been going to them for about five years, buying for myself or friends and family. But buying for resale, there is so much more to consider.
Libra, I too, used to try to get there early. Hate the waiting on line and the numbers deal. Or being half a foot from the door and they say "ok, two more come in," and slam goes the door in your face. lol.
I've found myself thinking, "this is f***ing degrading when I come here to spend my hard earned money." But I know they only have so many workers and they gotta watch if people are clipping things or whatever. Even at garage sales it never occured to me to pick up something and walk away with it, because I wouldn't want it done to me. But from the buzz around talking to people who attend these things, it happens alot.
And yeah, I think quite a few them give the "real" dealers an edge. One company here I really like though. She knew I was into a certain collectable and she *gave* me a 1940's book on it. Granted, I spent about 100 dollars there that day; but I still thought that was really nice of her to think of me when she saw the book. I make an effort to go to almost any sale they do because I think they are highly reputable.
posted on January 11, 2004 04:54:45 PM new
I occasionally go to them, but tend to stay away. I have made a couple of good purchases, but I have mainly found average material that is way overpriced. The only way I have done well is to go near the end of the sale, and negotiate a better price with the company running the sale. If there is anything decent left, they might take almost anything, even a fraction of the discounted price.
posted on January 11, 2004 06:31:46 PM new
Itray, you said, ""Pickers" love it when you call and tell them you have 20 boxes of stuff for $100".
I just wanted to say there are many different types of pickers. I am a picker myself, my last open to the public store was in 1973. As a picker no way would I come if a dealer called me and offered 20 boxes for $100.00 that is not my style. I would come and do go to dealers that call me with a few or several good items. After all these years I am very careful about the people I buy from and sell to. I stay very low key. I am writing this just so people don't think that all pickers only buy low end items. Oh by the way, yes I do have a business license, pay taxes, and a building to sell from just like a Dealer. I wish someone would start a discussion about pickers it would be great fun to read.
May the luck of the Irish be with you
posted on January 12, 2004 12:16:09 AM new
Big Peepa, A thread about Pickers could be fun. I did not mean to offend. I had several different types of pickers occasion my shop.
Not all of them were bottom feeders. One of my favorite ones would come in and bring me some of the best pottery pieces in the area. I loved to deal in Roseville and Hull at the time. She could also take my fine china, which was not in demand in my area at the time, to other stores in the Florida panhandle and return with a nice profit for both of us.
Then I also had the bottom feeders that I had to warn each time they darkened my door. I refused to buy anything I thought might be hot and quite often saw some nice things walk away because I did not trust the picker who had brought them to me.
posted on January 12, 2004 02:44:50 AM new
A Picker might be diferent in some areas but every place I have been a Picker finds the good stuff. No Picker that I have ever met would buy a box lot unless it had something very good in it. People that buy 20 boxes of stuff are usually junk dealers and Thieves are thieves no matter if they are junk dealers, Pickers, or Bankers.
posted on January 12, 2004 05:10:47 AM new
I suppose, I am admittedly a picker. But I am a picky picker....lol. Don't think I would buy 20 boxes of stuff without picken through it first!!
posted on January 12, 2004 05:23:03 AM new
Libra, you are so right. the dealers are looking for only the best of the best mostly. i like to go later in the day or even the second day.
i went the last day of the sale once and found an antique office globe on stand, the globe was glass and lighted up.
there was a dealer hemming and hawing around the place, looking at the globe then walking away. i asked "how much?", the woman said $3.00! i loaded it into the car and the dealers wife said to hubby, "you can quit the act now, it's gone". was he really trying to jew here down on that?
this story is before my ebay years and i got $265.00 out of that globe at the local auction house. i love those cheap dealers.
It's a chore hauling it all, sorting it and storing it but it's also fun.