posted on February 10, 2004 08:07:31 AM new
Court: eBay's off the hook over feedback
February 9, 2004, 4:46 PM PST
CNET News.com
Be careful when reading feedback left in online auctions: eBay and similar Web sites are not required to remove information that's false or even libelous, a court has decided.
A California appeals court ruled last week that eBay cannot be forced to remove allegedly defamatory information posted to the popular auction site by users.
A 1996 federal law shields eBay and similar "interactive computer services," the appeals court said on Thursday. "Plaintiff is, in effect, asking for what, in established libel law, would be akin to a retraction. However, (the law) precludes liability in the first place."
This legal dispute started as a typical online tiff. eBay user Roger Grace bought some items from eBay seller Tim Neeley. Grace left a negative comment in Neeley's feedback area, which can be viewed by all visitors and is intended to create a kind of reputation for participants. Neeley retaliated by typing in a note in Grace's profile: "complaint: should be banned from ebay!!!! dishonest all the way!!!!"
After eBay refused to remove the negative feedback from Grace's profile, Grace sued the San Jose, Calif., auction giant for allegedly publishing false and defamatory information about him, in violation of California libel laws.
The federal law cited in the ruling was enacted as part of the Communications Decency Act, itself part of the 1996 Telecommunications Act. It says that "no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider."
In a court decision from August 2003, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals said that the law protected Web site operators from being sued for fabricated profiles on online dating sites.
posted on February 10, 2004 08:35:21 AM new
hello Reamond:
..BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT..the point of the thread originally:: chessguy is worried about being sued, IF HE DOESNT REMOVE THE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK..
..this is long way from the "plaintiff" suing ebay to remove the feedback..in fact, the "plaintiff" is aiming at only chessguy, as far as we know - for dafamation as the thread asserts..
..i do think your input is a valuable piece of info however, and i ususally watch the cnet..thanks, myoldtoy
MYOPINIONOFCOURSE!
PS: who knows, maybe chessguy's concerns may be paramount to spending time on this forum; that is why the "no report.."
---------------------------------
posted on February 10, 2004 09:39:34 AM new
Both Graces are listed as lawyers for the plaintiff Grace. Even though you can be pro se for your own case, Grace's wife must be an attorney to represent her husband since she is not a listed plaintiff. However I seem to recall in a news articel months ago that both of them are lawyers.
In any even, you can be successfully sued for the feedback you leave, notwithstanding any defences.
posted on February 10, 2004 09:44:32 AM newIf any seller has to worry about being sued over feedback then the time will come where no one in their right mind will even bother with it any more.
You just have to exercise some common sense in the feedback you leave.
In the Grace case the seller said things that were unnecessary.
SHOULD BE BANNED FROM EBAY. DISHONEST ALL THE WAY
Why not just say -- "I would not deal with this person"
The FB that Neely left doesn't give anymore relevant information than what I have suggested.
posted on February 10, 2004 09:56:37 AM new
chessguy,
~WoW~ This thread sure has gotten interesting but to keep in the subject of matters here this is what I would suggest...and let me also say that I am NOT a licensed attorney nor do I THINK that I know the law, however I have had my share of incidents in which I had to consult with the law.
First of all, run printouts of all emails between you & your customer and also run a printout of this guy’s website in which he has published all of this information between you and him. You might need hard copies of what he is doing.
Next you might want to talk to your local police department and ask them what you can do about a customer that is harassing you, e.g.: sending threatening emails, faxes & publishing a webpage that lists your personal information. Take your printouts with you so show them. Also, talk to your local Prosecutor. Get as educated about your legal rights as possible.
Next, and most importantly, contact his Internet provider and inform them that he is sending harassing emails (this is illegal) and if his webpage is hosted on their server (provided them the addy) request that it be removed immediately! Inform his Internet provider that you DID NOT consent to him publishing your information on his website nor will you ever. If his site is not on his IP’s server, than contact the server in which it is hosted.
You might also have to send him one more email and let him know that if he contacts you one more time by any means of communication, that you will consider it harassment and you will be contacting his local authorities. I do know that you have to put the individual on notice that you are considering his contacts/communications as harassment.
But make sure you have your printouts first before you do anything more. Consult with your local authorities (find out your rights), email his Internet provider and the website that hosts his page and then sit back & relax a bit and go from there.
*Disclaimer* Once again.....these are just some suggestions of things to check into and they in no way come from a licensed attorney.
posted on February 10, 2004 10:14:48 AM new
shamoy - If complaining about product/service in a commercial/civil matter was grounds for criminal investigation, then we would all probably be in trouble.
The police/prosecutor will see it for what it is-- a civil matter over a commercial dispute, and would have nothing to do with it.
Threatening a lawsuit could not be criminal either.
Lawyers in fact can legally "blackmail" people. Remember the woman who claimed she was Bill Cosby's daughter and threatened to "out" him over his extra-marital activities unless her gave her some moohla?
She was prosecuted for extortion. However, it was pointed out that had she hired a lawyer to approach Cosby about giving his claimed "daughter" some moohla, it would have been OK.
posted on February 10, 2004 10:47:29 AM new
Hi Reamond,
The customer complaining about a product/service wasn't the issue at hand, the issue is that the customer is threatening to sue over feedback.
Also, I didn't suggest that chessguy talk to the police or Prosecutor to get them involved, I only suggested this so that he could find out his rights, if any, in this matter. I hope I have cleared up those matters.
I also suggested that chessguy contact the customer's internet provider and see what violations, etc might be occuring for the reasons below.
My internet provider does have an "Acceptable Use Policy" in place and it does have a clause for harassment in which it states, "Sending outrageously threatening or harassing e-mail especially after being requested to stop, is prohibited. MYPROVIDER.NET Internet will cooperate with appropriate law enforcement agencies involved in investigating instances that may be reported to such authorities by
subscribers or other users who believe they are being subjected to potentially unlawful harassment.
It also states, "Other E-mail related issues:
Subscribers also may not engage in the following activities while using the MYPROVIDER.NET
Internet service:
• Publishing, posting, distributing or disseminating defamatory, infringing, obscene or other
unlawful material or information;
• Using the MYPROVIDER.NET Internet Service or systems to threaten, harass, stalk, abuse,
or otherwise violate the legal rights (including rights of privacy and publicity) of others. If a MYPROVIDER.NET Internet account is involved in a violation of these policies, we reserve the
right to suspend or terminate Service without notice.
I was just making some suggestions for chessguy to check into...having this happen to chessguy is, I am sure, very upsetting and disturbing for him. I am sure there HAS to be something that chessguy can do to stop some of what is happening! Those were just my suggestions. I hope I have cleared up my post somewhat.
posted on February 10, 2004 11:17:13 AM new
if you cant stand the heat,then get out of the kitchen.
if you are easily upset or intimated by your customer on ebay,then the best thing to do is to stop selling on ebay/
it is always nice to sell a thing or two and collect that money,but there is always the other side of the coin-just remember, there is no easy money out there,the days of making easy money on ebay is long gone,long long gone!.
it is kind of odd that the buyer will buy a mint conditon chess and return a broken and dirty one ,get his full refund and then sue over a neg.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on February 10, 2004 11:37:48 AM new
Just out of curiosity - where do some of you who have suggested calling the police and FBI live that you fell these people have the time to react to an email that asically says - "You are a big meaniehead, take it back or I'll sue".
We have an idiot in downtown that has set fire to two cars in a parking garage hoping that they would blow up and bring down the business above them, busted out the glass doors of another business, taken a screw driver to sides roof and hood of someones car, poured paint thinner and acrylic paint over another car, then pour paint into the gas tank of a third all without being arrested. When he was finally caught red handed spraying grafitti all over the windows of anotherl shop it took four people to get the police to actually arrest the fool and he was out three hours later since he had painted on glass which could be cleaned so was only arrested on a misdemeaner mischief charge rather than vandalism.
Police budgets all over the nation are cripled and it's damn near impossible to get actual protection and you somehow think it is appropriate to call the police and FBI because someone is threatening to file a frivilous lawsuit?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on February 10, 2004 12:04:38 PM new
thats why some of us become monday morning quarterback,half bake lawyer,appraiser,backseat driver etc.
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
posted on February 10, 2004 02:06:46 PM new
I think it is time we all quit speculating and since it is Tuesday and all this was supposed to happen on Monday Chessguy should come back and tell us what happened. We all have different ideas as to what COULD happen so now we have to play the waiting game for Chessguy to come back and post if he hear anything or not. The deadline has ended.
Sorry about the spelling errors I had my eyes tested and I can hardly see. Tough to get old.
[ edited by Libra63 on Feb 10, 2004 02:13 PM ]
posted on February 10, 2004 04:53:07 PM new
My response to the Attorney General of the State of California. Dept of Justice has been completed.
He can go to Squaretrade a partner of e bay and REMOVE the NEG. When He chooses to do so I Will refund his payment.
My .2 cents here is NOT a made up and I am NOT a troll.
I yellow highlited his allegations and his stupidities and the UPS delivery Number and sent it ALL,,,,ALL 22 pages, back to the Attorney Generals Office in Sacremento, Cal.
No one is getting ONE penny back from THIS e bay seller if and when they choose to hit that INSANELY stupid e bays feed back system. NEG me! Impatience! Impatient self, I want it NOW buyers is the problem. We are faceless people to these buyers and they have no regaurd for us. HE RIPPED ME OFF!!!!!!!! I mean after all isn't that what e bay promotes? Warn others! Well they better WAKE up in my case and do their WARNING [cries] AFTER they get their money back.
Snievel and and complain AFTER you have your money back. Beforehand,,,,cold day in HELL.
Sure,,, I rammbled, that's what this board is all about.
I knew the moment I saw that envelope from the Attorney Generals Office it WAS e bay related. NEVER have I EVER received ANYTHING like this in the mail.
.2 cents.
Have a Great day.
MY Powersellers logo. Whoooe! It's Still, up there! .
Annnnnnd,,,,,,The beat goes on...yeah the beat goes on,,,,,
posted on February 10, 2004 05:35:40 PM new
jackswebb there are things in this life we cannot change, eBay has made up their feedback so that everyone is vulneruble to the attacks of either a buyer or a seller and as receipients of this we cannot do anything except do the same to them and then it is unfair. I understand completely. I do not believe you are a troll what you are trying to do and I am sure others are is to tell eBay that their feedback system stinks. Can they understand that? YES, do they want to change it NO. We are between a rock and a hard place and who gets hit first? If you said eBay your Wrong.... Maybe the people who leave no feedback are right....
posted on February 10, 2004 05:46:34 PM new
Jack, I hope you sent it certified or return receipt requested.
reenie
I don't get even....I get even better Jimmy Hoffa
posted on February 10, 2004 06:19:53 PM new
..maybe he has decided to leave us in limbo.
..maybe the thread is not real..maybe it was a test to see how people would react..maybe some college student is building info for his term paper..maybe some group of lawyers put this together..maybe a class of ebay students working for extra grade..maybe the poster was served and is devastated because he being sued for big monetary damages..maybe...
posted on February 10, 2004 06:26:28 PM new
LATTE,,,,Excellent! It is still on the seat of my truck.....I Shall send it in that manner....MORE postage hahahahha,,,,,,BUT,,,,the STATE GOT IT! I was just gonna lick and stick some stamps on it and send it......
I quess this bees Official Business....and treated as such. Thanks!
MY Powersellers logo. Whoooe! It's Still, up there! .
Annnnnnd,,,,,,The beat goes on...yeah the beat goes on,,,,,
posted on February 10, 2004 06:58:27 PM new
Since Tweedy is gone I no longer have a Legal Advisor,,,if She WERE still here,,,,,She'd tell me, Jack, scraaaaaaaatch their eyeballs out!!!!!! works fer me!!!!! Swiiiiiipe!!!!!Snarrrrrrrrrllllll,,,They run down the Alley and NEVER come back! Off to the right er' the left but who cares....this is a crazy thread and the Original has NOT checked back in......like someone above said even a Hi! nothin'. Who knows,,,,all this typin' fer NOT.
MY Powersellers logo. Whoooe! It's Still, up there! .
Annnnnnd,,,,,,The beat goes on...yeah the beat goes on,,,,,
posted on February 10, 2004 07:05:22 PM new
Yeah where is chessguy? Oh well he's probably wondering whether to wind his butt or scratch his watch!
Call me doubting Doty but I too am really wondering if his story is on the up & up
[ edited by getkicksonrte66 on Feb 10, 2004 07:06 PM ]
This topic is 7 pages long: 1new2new3new4new5new6new7new
and complain AFTER you have your money back. Beforehand,,,,cold day in HELL.
Whoooe! It's Still, up there!