posted on March 31, 2004 11:31:09 AM new
So I'm looking at my PayPal Feb 2004 Monthly Account Statement. (Go to All Activity; you can generate one for yourself there.) This is for the seller ID that has a PayPal business account.
I note:
235 payments total
$167.63 in fees
Hmmm. Seems high, but how high is it really compared to processing checks?
I get a ton of checks and money orders on another seller ID, so I know how long it takes. I can process 60 payments in an hour. When I say "process" I mean:
Open envelope
Scan the contents
Endorse the check
Make up bank deposit
...which is the equivalent of what PayPal does for us, right? Right.
So at 60 payments per hour, it would have taken me or one of my $16-an-hour temps 3.91 hours to process 235 payments.
The labor cost would be $62.56. PayPal charged me $167.63.
That must mean the $105.07 difference is a convenience fee, eh?
If I make a check deposit at the bank, the funds are available immediately.
If I move funds out of my PayPal account, it takes three days.
This is going to require more thought. PayPal seems to cost more than it is worth.
Thoughts?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minstrel: [singing] Brave Sir Robin ran away, bravely ran away away. When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. A brave retreat by brave Sir Robin.
posted on March 31, 2004 11:47:53 AM new
If you don't mind check, raise you shipping and give a discount on checks.
Most people that use paypal are too lazy (including myself) to mail a payment and spend the $.37 on a stamp.
I would pay at least $1 extra to use paypal and look for a different auction that does accept it.
If you only accept money orders, you could raise the s&h $1.50 and say you deduct the money order and stamp price (usps rates).
This way would be a little more complicated but the people mailing payment would think they are getting a discount.
(At least the people like the ones I have seen here saying they get a UPS discount by having daily pickup which just puts it back the the base rate)
posted on March 31, 2004 11:50:52 AM new
Thanks for posting the tip.
But, part of the convenience for me is having the address already in my auction management software. All I have to do is run a paypal report, send email payment received and print labels.
When I get a check I have to match it up to item bought (done automatically with the paypal processor), type in the label (since 3/4 of my buyers refuse to follow instructions where I request an email with shipping address, then do all of the things you mentioned.
For me, getting paypal payments means processing 50 items in less than 20 minutes with labels in hand and ready to stick on packages. Which is a big savings in time, and a big saving in tedious work
[ edited by lindajean on Mar 31, 2004 11:51 AM ]
posted on March 31, 2004 11:51:46 AM new
Here is a question for you.
Can you do the same business if you didn't accept PayPal?
Would it be feesable for you to accept credit cards on your own?
I realize PayPal charges a lot but most of my business is PayPal. Now my eBay isn't what yours is as mine is getting rid of items. I don't know if I could not accept PayPal and still get the business I do. You have made a good example of PayPal charges and I am sure the sellers that have a large business appreciates this. You can take a short vacation on what you would save in a year.
posted on March 31, 2004 11:52:42 AM newI would pay at least $1 extra to use paypal and look for a different auction that does accept it.
Depending on what you buy, that may not be enough to cover the cost of the PayPal fee to the seller.
I just received a payment of $24.43, from which was deducted $1.01 in PayPal fees.
If you're buying something for $25 or more, the seller is still losing money on fees even considering your $1 donation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minstrel: [singing] Brave Sir Robin ran away, bravely ran away away. When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. A brave retreat by brave Sir Robin.
posted on March 31, 2004 11:54:29 AM new
I don't have time to add all the figures up right now but my first though is..PAYPAL IS WORTH IT!
I don't have any $16/hour temps so check processing is my job and I can't process anywhere NEAR 60/hour!
First I have to open the blankety blank envelope, remove the check/money order/cash and set aside, then I have to find the auction name/number somewhere in the pages of transmittal docs or see if they put on the memo part of the check/mo and hope to god i can read their handwriting, then I have to look up the auction name if they just provide the number (cards filed by name not number) - then I have to find the return address somewhere in that mess (hoping to God I can read their handwriting), update my post-sale management system and give FB (post-sale is imported on PP transactions), package the postcard etc...then I have to endorse all the checks and make a deposit slip. drive to the bank, wait in line to deposit...and my funds ARE NOT readily available! The approx .50 I pay PP (built in to my opening listing price) is WELL WORTH IT!! My time is better spent cranking out new listings IMHO...
I am interested in learning what you meant by "scan the contents"..
GTG make a deposit now! TTFN
*********************************************
Whatever women do they must do twice as well as men to be thought half as good. Luckily, this is not difficult. Charlotte Whitton
Whenever women are depressed they either eat or go shopping. Men invade another country. Elayne Boosler
In politics, if you want anything said you ask a man – if you want anything done you ask a woman. Margaret Thatcher
posted on March 31, 2004 11:56:26 AM new
Hi Libra,
Can you do the same business if you didn't accept PayPal?
I do do the same business, and a lot more of it, on an account that does not accept PayPal.
See, this is the experiment that hasn't been tried much by other folks. I have the main account that doesn't take PayPal. I have some ancillary accounts that do take PayPal. Sales on the main account, adjusted for volume, are still much stronger than on the others. Much of that is repeat business, true, but they are happy to pay by check and that's what's important.
I was as surprised by this as anyone, to tell you the truth. The conventional notion that adding PayPal to your auctions generates sales seemed reasonable to me. It wasn't until I tried it that I got the real picture.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minstrel: [singing] Brave Sir Robin ran away, bravely ran away away. When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. A brave retreat by brave Sir Robin.
posted on March 31, 2004 12:02:03 PM new
Oh, man, neglus, I got a headache just reading that. Here, have a nice soothing hot adult beverage. A few sips...all better.
My end of auction email requires that the buyer either:
1) include a copy of the EOA email with her payment (which 90% of them actually do) or
2) write the bloomin' auction number on her payment.
Scan the contents means pulling check and copy out of the envelope, putting check, copy and return address down flat on scanner, hitting the 'Copy' button (so it gets printed out on the upstairs HP printer), dropping the check in one bin and the rest of it in a much larger bin below my desk. It really only takes 60 seconds.
The bank makes funds available immediately because I've been a customer there longer than any of them have been working there. Scary.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minstrel: [singing] Brave Sir Robin ran away, bravely ran away away. When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. A brave retreat by brave Sir Robin.
posted on March 31, 2004 12:05:49 PM new
according to the yahoo staff who man the yahoo pay direct system,if you register your bank ATM card instead of your bank account number and routing number,you will get your money faster.
out of that 30 cents transaction fee paypal charges you, i would think paypal is keeping 10-20 cents and its merchant account provider gets the rest.Of the 2.2-2.9 % discount fee it charges you,paypal is keeping .5%-1.2 %.
yes,paypal is a nice money making machine,we should have spent our time programming a system like that instead of selling barbie dolls on ebay.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on March 31, 2004 12:57:45 PM new
I went back the past 3 months - and I'm averaging a fee of 52.3 cents per transaction.
I process the payment at the same time I pack the item for shipment, update my accounting software, and leave feedback - and only go to the bank maybe once a week with all of the checks/money orders received for the prior week - there aren't that many these days and its worth the trip only went they do pile up.
posted on March 31, 2004 01:06:25 PM new
WOW. I never bothered to look at the statment and now that I have I am beginning to wonder where all my money is going.
posted on March 31, 2004 01:15:01 PM new
ninerfanzz: PP has only recently made these monthly statements available, so I imagine we're all feeling a bit of sticker shock.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minstrel: [singing] Brave Sir Robin ran away, bravely ran away away. When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. A brave retreat by brave Sir Robin.
posted on March 31, 2004 01:20:53 PM new
Just went and checked mine.
Don't feel sticker shock.
It adds up but you have to expect it.
A Merchant acct. would have cost more.
And would charge every month use it or not!
It's a great convenience and easy to use,so I feel it's worth it.
posted on March 31, 2004 01:28:53 PM new
One thing that no one has mentioned is the fact that P/P accepts credit cards & most of charges to you go to the CC Company. Yes whining I do take this cost int account on my S&H charges. I don't take personal checks & am happy with getting paid within 24 hrs of the close of the auction.
posted on March 31, 2004 01:31:18 PM new
I still think that Paypal adds a certain attraction to your auctions, as I get many requests to pay via Paypal. ( I don't accept Paypal payments although I use Paypal to buy if given the chance) I don't accept it for 2 reasons. #1 I'm cheap (read frugal) and don't like giving money away unnecessarily. #2 I've been on this board long enough to take heed of some of the horror stories about Paypal.
posted on March 31, 2004 01:58:34 PM new
PayPal is worth it to me just for the convenience of not having packages in my way for 5-10 days. 90% of my auctions are paid with PayPal and most within 24 hours of the end of the auction. That gets the packages out of my way and makes room for new items to go up for auction.
The bad check for $600.00 that I have never recovered the money for that bounced 28 days after deposit made me quit taking checks years ago.
posted on March 31, 2004 02:00:30 PM new
I have been selling on ebay for years and never took one paypal payment. My business continues to grow, so I can honestly say paypal has not hurt me. The only online payment I take is western union auction payments, and 20% of my bidders pay with it. I also have many buyers compliment me for having lower shipping costs. Most buyers know they are paying those high handling fees because of paypal.
posted on March 31, 2004 02:04:14 PM new
I have been using them since practically the day they opened. Back when you got $5 for referrals, and really got them
I love it and wish I had the courage to make my listings 100% paypal but I want $$ however they want to pay me.
I do build a 90 cent handling fee into my shipping charges and that pays for any PP expenses I might have.
posted on March 31, 2004 02:15:38 PM new
To give you a different perspective on payment costs, we are an export business dealing mainly with the UK and Europe. Almost 95% of our payments are online direct into our bank accounts (and hence not reversable) and usually at no charge. The rest are by check or money order and occasionally cash.
The reason PayPal is so pervasive in the US is the lack of infrastructure supporting direct P2P bank transfers at no or low cost (with the exception of CheckFree which hardly anyone knows about)... The actual cost of an ACH transfer is a few cents - food for thought.
We accept moneybookers for intl transactions as payments are not reversable or subject to chargebacks. PayPal offers no seller protection against chargebacks and is not regulated unlike moneybookers.
[ edited by agitprop on Mar 31, 2004 02:23 PM ]
posted on March 31, 2004 03:04:33 PM new
ACH will require both buyer and seller to have online banking privilege which cost a few dollars a month.
but the main reason for using paypal over other forms of payment is that the bidder just dont have the cash in their bank account.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
posted on March 31, 2004 03:28:33 PM newThen you should stop accepting PayPal if you can do better without it. For some strange reason I don't think you'll be doing that.
The seller id that has the PayPal business account does less than 18% of my total auctions.
So accept PayPal, not accept PayPal, either way it's not going to make or break me.
I was surprised, though, to see what a convenience fee I'm paying for the illusion of quick payment. If I can't get to the cash until the fourth day after it's paid into my PP account, they might as well have sent a check. My items are small; if they sit around there's no danger of me tripping over them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minstrel: [singing] Brave Sir Robin ran away, bravely ran away away. When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. A brave retreat by brave Sir Robin.
posted on March 31, 2004 03:38:55 PM new
Thanks, Fluff, for the tip! I just pulled mine up, as I'm sure many others here are doing, and am as surprised as most everyone else.
Now, to you accounting buffs! What do the "Other Credits", "Other Debits" and "Net" represent?
Adding and subtracting the figures I'm not sure how they are supposed to tally out.
Yes, for those of you who may remember my 'Buyer's Perspectives', I'm now selling a little, too. However, as my PayPal invoice shows, I'm buying far more than selling. Hmmm! Hence, my quandry over how all these figures balance out.
posted on March 31, 2004 03:51:50 PM new
some folks use the paypal debit card as credit card and get a rebate from paypal,so that could be other credit.other debit could be misc fee such as asking paypal to cut a money order .
of course there is this awful chargeback fee of 10 dollars.
then there is this miniscule credit called interest you earned from your paypal money market account!!whoopee !!!!!
if you sell many low priced items,that paypal transaction fee of 30 cents can eat into your profit.
if you sell big ticket items such as pc and laptop and make very little money,that 2.2-2.9% discount fee can wipe out your profit.
paypal is still cheaper than merchant account or propay,propay will charge 1/2% for transferring fund to your bank account and its fee is 35 cents plus 3.5%.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
[ edited by stopwhining on Mar 31, 2004 03:54 PM ]
posted on March 31, 2004 04:40:03 PM new
Fluff - once you have the account for 60 days you can get a debit card and withdraw up to $400 of your balance daily. If you use that method you have almost immediate access.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on March 31, 2004 05:46:01 PM new
fenix: Yep. I'm required to add a credit card to my PP account in order to get the ATM/debit card, and that I do not want to do.
PP has more than enough hooks into me already.
I don't object to Internet banking; I have a savings account with an Internet-only bank that does automatic withdrawals from checking and dumps it into savings every week. It's great. But it's a bank, with all that that implies.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minstrel: [singing] Brave Sir Robin ran away, bravely ran away away. When danger reared its ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled. Yes, brave Sir Robin turned about, and valiantly, he chickened out. Bravely taking to his feet, he beat a very brave retreat. A brave retreat by brave Sir Robin.
posted on March 31, 2004 06:06:17 PM newI just received a payment of $24.43, from which was deducted $1.01 in PayPal fees.
Why are you still paying the 2.9% rate?
I just checked a payment that I received for $24.99 and the fee was $.85
