posted on May 13, 2004 05:37:20 AM new
OH DAMN, now its happened to me...i bid on, and won auction for a punchbowl.. terms were: winning bidder to pay actual ups charges...
received invoice and ups charge is:: $58.00
-----------------------------------
I Emailed seller that could there be some mistake?? [ the punchbowl is 13in d x 10in hi] ...add 2" allaround to meet ups guidelines-and give benefit of doubt...packd in carton 21 x 19 x 16 x 25 lbs x $100 insurance. my zip, to her zip...ups fee is $34.40...and that it certainly seems to be a mistake...
-------------------------------------------------
this is her answer: c/paste: Dear sir: there is no mistake; you should read my terms or dont bid on my item. the charge is UPS actual and stands at $58.00. That is what I was quoted and that is what you are expected to pay. Please remit immediately. thank you.
----------
i Emailed seller back: who quoted you $58.00? and then proceeded to explain, again, the estimated dimensions and oversize packing..and explained how the $34.40 was derived - a quote from UPS - and to please reply at once to my explanation.
-------------
her reply: c/paste...:I am not sure what part of $58.00 you do not understand. THIS is the ACTUAL COST. You bid on this item. this is a contract. You are legally responsible to fulfill the contract by paying what you agreed to pay by bidding on it. Thank you
--------------------
I emailed that i had bid on the punchbowl with the full intention of paying exactly what she had quoted - actual ups charges....NO MORE...and i would again ask, who quoted you the price of $58.00?
------------------------
been 2 days now; and i have not received a reply.
I know what seller is doing...charging the bidder for what ever the "brown store" charges..
NOW THE QUESTION...would you send the seller another email, maybe after 3 days of silence..my hunch is that i will not hear anymore, until the ebay npb notice comes..WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
------------------------
also, I post this "situation." because like a poster on another thread stated, this crap reflects on all sellers...and i quote part of that post..
"What is so despicable about this practice is the number of newbie bidders this type of scam scares off. These are bidders who would one day run across one of our auctions and bid. Now we'll never have a chance to do business with them. It's money out of the honest seller's pocket. And it's one step closer to the day when Ebay will start to" [e/paste]
------------
'nuff said i guess; IJMO
myoldtoy
--------------------
Maybe this seller is handing a bare punchbowl over to one of those mailbox places to be packed and shipped UPS. That might explain the total. That happened to me on a large cardboard advertising item that was (very badly) packed by one of those services. After UPS bent the package and left in behind my storm door in the driving rain they would only refund the cost of the item and not the packing and shipping which were more than the item. I went around and around with them about it but never got them to pay more.
-----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
“The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.”
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
posted on May 13, 2004 06:01:57 AM new
MANY newbie-clueless do NOT know that MBE (etc) is NOT actual UPS.
Regardless, she's probably like MOST folks (RALPHIE included) who become very confused when trying to use UPS or FEDEX & just give up & turn to MBE for sanity sake!
REGARDLESS (part deux), you should have emailed her BEFORE bidding if you needed an EXACT quote. Her amount is not particularily off the wall -- not GREAT, but certainly not into the realm of fee-avoidance as far as feeBay is concerned.
I no longer entertain shipping-fee debates -- if the bidder yacks about my clearly listed shipping fees (both method & amount are listed, as I use flat-rate in order to avoid just this very type of situation), I cancel the auction & file on them as to NOT ABIDING BY TOS
posted on May 13, 2004 06:07:05 AM new
right Photo...thats is what i meant by the "brown store." and i agree with you RE their packing -ups will not refund this part of the fee...the store's packing suks. IJMO
---------------
BUT, as an addition to this: i applaude all those sellers who state that they take the package to the "brown store" for packing and shipping via UPS...and i do see it on more and more auctions...at least the bidder doesnt get blind sided...
----------------------
Tom: the auction, per initial part of my post, states bidder to pay actual UPS..i ship enuff ups to know prox. what tariff would be...and that would have in no instance been exorbitant to me..
myoldtoy
[ edited by myoldtoy on May 13, 2004 06:10 AM ]
posted on May 13, 2004 06:16:56 AM new
The way to avoid being "blind-sided" in the first place to to email before hand if the terms are even slightly nebulous, as this case is.
If she then quotes you $30 before the auction ends, & then tries to hit you up for $50 after EOA, then ya have FRAUD.
But saying "actual cost" is far different than "exact postage"
This is why I went to flat-rates on all my auctions! Some (WEST-COAST) I lose $1 / some (EAST-COAST) I "make" $3
All evens out in the wash & avoids any possibility of confusion -- my bidders are told UP FRONT bothe the METHOD & THE SHIPPING FEE!
Helps to preserve those THREE remaining hairs on me noggin!
Sometimes I get pleasantly surprised:
I sold a huge print a while back & stated $9.99 shipping fee via PARCEL POST, as I had intended to ship it rolled...
MY BOBO -- after EOA, I realized that it was heavy-heavy stock & could not be rolled.
SO... with the custom cardboard job + the OVERSIZE charges, actual exact POSTAGE came to $19.99
I just shipped it off with a smile & proceeded to yell & scream at RALPHIE!
ANYHOO...TMALSS: the buyer sent me an email stating that he noticed that I was $10 off & HE PAYPALLED me the difference!
posted on May 13, 2004 06:23:10 AM new
You are probably paying more than the absolute lowest possible, but you made the bid and have to pay what they are asking. Consider it the cost of a lesson learned.
Of course, you should demand proof of mailing costs with your shipment. It's not fraud if they spend the amount quoted.
posted on May 13, 2004 06:56:13 AM new
I had a situation recently where I was charged $5.95 shipping and the actual shipping was $.74 (not including any handling fees). I didn't say anything simply because it was in her TOS, but I would NEVER overcharge a customer like that. I also cannot believe how rude that seller was to you. It's a wonder she has any customers after writing nasty e-mails like that. Some sellers need to learn a little bit of decorum when addressing certain situations.
posted on May 13, 2004 07:01:02 AM new
Hi, I feel myoldtoy has a point here and a legitimate gripe. The sellers terms of service reads actual UPS charge, not actual UPS charge + S&H, or actual UPS charge from wrapping service store.
reenie
I don't get even....I get even better Jimmy Hoffa
posted on May 13, 2004 07:24:41 AM newbut you made the bid and have to pay what they are asking.
No you don't.
Whenever you have an open term such as this shipping charge and there is a reasonable disagreement over the liquadated cost of that term, the buyer is well within reason to cancel the deal.
Regardless of the TOS, when shipping is an open term, the buyer has a rightful expectation not to be gouged or otherwise cheated on the shipping charges.
This does not mean that stated S & H charges are negotiable, but it does mean that the buyer should be able to cancel the purchase without any repercusions.
posted on May 13, 2004 07:43:26 AM new
------------------
"Simply put, a charge cannot be an OVERcharge if you agree to it up front."
"Which you did."
----------------
.. bizzecrocheting clearly stated her position - that while she felt she was charged too much, she had read the auction; and she bid and paid, with no hassle...further, she said "i would never overcharge a customer like that." she is saying nothing more than she[in my opinion] got took-but she wouldnt do likewise...she fell victim to the seller's amount..so, semantics aside,
posted on May 13, 2004 07:54:38 AM new
fluff: i didnt mean for this thread to go off-beam...but that is also my fault; i meant to emphasize the earlier post that these are the kind of situations that may, sooner or later, bring ebay to making us all do what they want us to do...to protect the bidder/buyer..
=============
reamond:
"This does not mean that stated S & H charges are negotiable, but it does mean that the buyer should be able to cancel the purchase without any repercusions."
as far as cancelling the contract, etc., i in no way plan on instituting. i do want the bowl, otherwise i wouldnt have bid on it. i just dont plan on paying a 30% amount above the actual tariff...and yes, she DID NOT CALL IT A TARIFF, i did..
==============
posted on May 13, 2004 07:54:46 AM new
" I had a situation recently where I was charged $5.95 shipping and the actual shipping was $.74"
Was this a cell phone accessory? I was browsing through that area the other day. Seems most sellers are charging about the same price for shipping there. And the negs they get are usually from people who got mad they were charged $5.95 and the seller used bubble mailer with 1st class for less than a buck.
I can understand though, seems like in that area (cell accessories) the prices are rock bottom.. like pennies per item. Figure they only make money on the shipping and handling.
Any sellers of those things here? Been wondering if it's hard to sell in that area (I don't want to, I'm getting out of the game).
Seth
posted on May 13, 2004 08:08:38 AM newUnless you're willing to cite the eBay rule that provides for consequence-free cancelling
eBay will not penalize a buyer for canceling a purchase due to the seller gouging on open term shipping costs.
I have canceled at least five purchases due to gouging on open shipping terms. eBay asked why I didn't go through with the purchase and I showed them the shipping charges and nothing more was heard of the issue.
eBay must have warned the seller too because I never received any negative FBs.
There are too many sellers here that think that if they put it in their TOS, eBay will uphold it, or since it is in writing it msut be enforceable.
The best one is the TOS that states the seller is not responsible for items lost or damaged in shipping.
The seller IS responsible, even if the buyer refuses to insure, and even if the seler states in their TOS that they are not responsible. And just to make sure - always pay by credit card - if the item is damaged or a no-show, charge it back and see if the seller can "enforce" the TOS - they can't.
The problem on eBay is not buyers who cancel a purchase due to being cheated or gouged on open shipping terms. The major problem on eBay is dishonest sellers and NPBs.
A buyer who cancels a purchase due to a seller gouging on an open shipping term is not a NPB.
posted on May 13, 2004 08:31:17 AM new
Reamond: i couldnt agree with you more..and again i now wish i had re-phrased my initial...because while we "cross swords" in heated debate; all of us are still having to bail water out of the same lifeboat...buyers' practises, even npb'ers, dont hurt us as much as dishonest sellers.
-------------
and, as i already said; i dont plan on cancelling the sale, that will be up to the seller..
--------------
myopinionofcourse
myoldtoy
posted on May 13, 2004 08:41:40 AM neweBay will not penalize a buyer for canceling a purchase due to the seller gouging on open term shipping costs.
Still waiting for citations from eBay.
Oh, that's right...this is all just smoke, and guess where it's being blown from.
You know, what concerns me is that some innocent person is going to come along and believe that you are citing actual facts, Reamond.
Hey, innocent person? Feel you've been gouged? Be aware that the seller can STILL leave you negative feedback (if you care about such things). The seller can STILL file a Non-Paying Bidder warning on you, if you have refused to pay because you feel you've been gouged.
The best, simplest and only way to avoid all this is to (drumroll, please):
Ask Before Bidding
[ edited by fluffythewondercat on May 13, 2004 08:44 AM ]
posted on May 13, 2004 08:55:48 AM new
FROM THE RETRACT BID PAGE:
It is ONLY OK to retract a bid if...,
The description of an item you have bid on has changed significantly.
Excessive Shipping/Handling
The seller is responsible for determining the shipping and handling charges on listings, and eBay encourages sellers to clearly describe the item and terms of shipping and delivery in their listings to avoid possible confusion. Before bidding on an auction or buying in a fixed-price listing, bidders/buyers should contact the seller about any questions they might still have that are not directly answered in the item's description.
Sellers may charge reasonable shipping and handling fee to the final price of their item, providing that this fee is disclosed up front in the listing. A shipping and handling fee can cover the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging and handling the item. Shipping and handling fees cannot be listed as a percentage of the final sale price.
When a bid is placed, the bidder is entering into an agreement with the seller to purchase the item, which most often means incurring shipping charges that may also include handling fees.
In the case of disagreements between buyers and sellers regarding shipping charges, eBay encourages the parties to try to work the matter out. Usually these situations can be amicably resolved.
NO WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT IN THE CASE OF UNREASONABLE SHIPPING FEES THAT WILL EBAY PENALIZE THE BUYER WHO CANCELS THE PURCHASE. IT DOESN'T. EBAY JUST ENCOURAGES THE PARTIES TO WORK THE PROBLEM OUT.
I AM CONCERNED ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE FLUFFY POSTING HER OPINIONS HERE THAT WILL CAUSE BUYERS TO FELL OBLIGATED TO BE CHEATED BY SELLERS.
posted on May 13, 2004 08:59:52 AM newsurely this doesnt mean you have been gouging customers, or does it?
I think you thought that was a cute little slap at me because I had the temerity to disagree with you, but let's consider what you're saying for a moment.
Out of close to 20,000 transactions, I have gotten <undefined number> of negative feedbacks for "gouging" or some such.
I think that you and others have established that "gouging" is subjective; i.e. meaning that it doesn't matter what the auction says, it only matters how the buyer feels.
So, how many people who feel that I have "gouged" them does it take before I'm guilty of gouging?
posted on May 13, 2004 09:00:39 AM newHey, innocent person? Feel you've been gouged? Be aware that the seller can STILL leave you negative feedback (if you care about such things). The seller can STILL file a Non-Paying Bidder warning on you, if you have refused to pay because you feel you've been gouged.
Hey, shipping gouging seller ? Feel you have a NPB ? Be aware that the buyer can STILL leave you a negative FB. The buyer can still give the information to eBay that supports the buyer's claim of unreasonable and gouging shipping terms THAT WERE NOT STATED IN THE AUTION PAGE.
.
