Reamond
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:12:34 AM new
FLUFFY happens to be correct here..
Not even close. Let's see one citation from eBay that states a seller can leave the shipping charges open on an auction and then charge an unreasonable shipping charge.
eBay supports my position.
Whether the shipping charges in this particular case are reasonable or unreasonable remains to be seen. There are other facts to be known before a determination can be made.
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Reamond
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:13:32 AM new
to be BIG BOYS & GIRLS and accept it when ya step in it!
Consumers are never under an obligation to be defrauded.
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myoldtoy
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:18:21 AM new
"temerity to disagree with you." ????
"myoldtoy should be grateful the seller didn't decide to ship it UPS Next Day Air."
"I'll wait here until you post it."
"Still waiting for citations from eBay."
i have no problem EVER with disagreement; JUST THE INTERJECTION OF SARCASM.
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myoldtoy
[ edited by myoldtoy on May 13, 2004 09:18 AM ]
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Reamond
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:21:36 AM new
i have no problem EVER with disagreement; JUST THE INTERJECTION OF SARCASM.
What else could they use ? When facts and common sense are not on your side, sarcasm is the last refuge.
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tomwiii
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:22:00 AM new
NO, but they are under an obligation to use COMMON SENSE and ASK before bidding -- as opposed to assuming that because THEY do UPS one way, ALL other sellers DO IT the same way! Taking the item to the UPS STORE is charging actual UPS charges...whether you like it or not!
NOTHING FRAUDULENT about this transaction that I can see -- just a bidder unhappy AFTER THE FACT because they ASSUMED an invalid conclusion.
Which is why I think FLAT RATES work bestest 
749
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coincoach
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:26:38 AM new
"Before bidding on an auction or buying in a fixed-price listing, bidders/buyers should contact the seller about any questions they might still have that are not directly answered in the item's description."
The ebay guidelines you quoted seem to agree with the "write before bidding" advice. Also, IMO, cancelling a bid is not the same as canceling an auction you have won.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:32:10 AM new
Which is why I think FLAT RATES work bestest
Yeppers. Which is why I quote flat rates in all my auctions, have done so for years. It also makes a nice neat invoice without lots of back-and-forth correspondence.
Interestingly, the rate quoted in our auction and the rate quoted in our end of auction invoice are exactly the same. I can't quite "get" how that is overcharging but the human mind is amazingly good at rationalization. That I well know.
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Reamond
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:32:22 AM new
The ebay guidelines you quoted seem to agree with the "write before bidding" advice. Also, IMO, cancelling a bid is not the same as canceling an auction you have won.
What is there to write about ? The auction said actual UPS shipping charges. The dispute is over the actual UPS shipping charges.
The buyer didn't say they were unwilling to pay the actual UPS shipping charges as stated in the auction.
You also seem to conveniently ignore the whole second part of my post that cites eBay's position on unreasonable shipping charges.
[ edited by Reamond on May 13, 2004 09:38 AM ]
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Reamond
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:36:40 AM new
NOTHING FRAUDULENT about this transaction that I can see -- just a bidder unhappy AFTER THE FACT because they ASSUMED an invalid conclusion.
There is a fraud issue over the UPS cost. Either the UPS actual charge is as stated by the seller or it isn't.
I haven't read in this thread anything about handling or any other cost issues.
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capolady
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:38:53 AM new
MY OLD TOY:
I THINK SHE SAID : ASK BEFORE BIDDING!!
CONSIDER THAT STATEMENT SINCE FLUFF HAS ALSO BEATEN YOU, OVER THE YEARS IN THE NUMBER OF POSTS, BY A FACTOR OF TEN.
Sound familiar??
Don't cry about sarcasasm when you're as guilty as anyone.
Just my opinion!!!
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:44:05 AM new
Actually, the smoke-blowing comment was probably uncalled-for. I should have made the point some other way.
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coincoach
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:44:06 AM new
Actual UPS shipping charge is a vague statement. How much does the punchbowl weigh? Is the seller using a "brown store?" As a bidder, I would want more definite information than that before bidding. Overcharging is a somewhat subjective term. Some buyers think $ 1 over actual postage is overcharging. I am not saying that this seller is or is not overcharging--only that with vague shipping terms, the buyer should make it his/her business to find out what exact shipping will be, especially on an item that may be quite heavy. It only takes a one line e-mail----how much to ship to zip code -----?
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myoldtoy
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:44:50 AM new
capolady:
you completely misread it. RATHER, i completely mis-communicated the post...i should have said F beaten us both over the years by a factor of ten times, the time...sorry...
myoldtoy
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Reamond
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:49:19 AM new
Actual UPS shipping charge is a vague statement.
I find it anything but vague. And the buyer is not refusing to pay the actual UPS shipping.
Again, the dispute is over the actual UPS shipping costs.
The seller said the actual UPS shipping cost is $58 and the buyer said it is $34.
They both can't be right.
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capolady
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:51:39 AM new
myoldtoy:
no problem - I think I need a new estrogen patch - I'm having a menopause day!!
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stopwhining
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:52:05 AM new
i used to go to a usps contract station inside a gift shop,it also offers UPS and FED EXP.
Any way,he cheats on the postage and never give me a receipt,so i reported him to the post office,not once but twice.
The last time i drove by,he is still in business.
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
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tomwiii
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:56:48 AM new
"They both can't be right."
OF COURSE THEY CAN!
Again, YOU & this BIDDER are making ASSUMPTIONS not stated in the auction & NOT CLARIFIED by an email question:
YOU ARE ASSUMING UPS GROUND!!!!
For all you two know, this particular seller ships ONLY via UPS 3DAY SELECT /or/ UPS WHOOP-PEE-DO /or/ WHO KNOWS WHAT FORM of UPS!
If you ASSUME GROUND, but they happen to have a religious conviction towards TWO-DAY (or who knows what), then your assumption is INCORRECT because you...
DIDN'T EMAIL BEFORE BIDDING!
749
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coincoach
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posted on May 13, 2004 09:58:53 AM new
Does the buyer know the exact weight of this punch bowl? Exact dimensions of package? If not, then they cannot know for sure the actual UPS charge. The buyer seems to be assuming dimensions and weight. That, to me, is vague.
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myoldtoy
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posted on May 13, 2004 10:00:38 AM new
Coin: let me respecfully disagree...there is nothing "vague" about the word "actual."
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weight of the package is moot at this point, because, when i calculated the $34,i did so at the highest dimensional-weight point..ups tariffs not calculated like the usps..so i figured the $34 [which is my estimate-and ups's quote] on the highest weight possible before 70# o/s breaks to a high price...and i know the punch bowl; i have sold several, i know what it weighs.
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..if one calls ups; asks about "brown store," or any other pickup program; they[ups] will tell you their quote is the price they charge to ship the item..any extra, or whatever terminology ones uses, is the amount the store charges for accepting, providing carton/materials and labor to prepare for shipment by ups..
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and i guess, in retrospect-which like hindsight is 20/20, i could have emailed seller...asked how much...but i didnt...common sense to do so??? i guess that "makes sense."
------------------------------
myoldtoy
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Reamond
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posted on May 13, 2004 10:06:40 AM new
OF COURSE THEY CAN!
They have emailed each other ! If it is the case that the UPS method was different, the seller surely would have stated such in their correspondence, but the seller did not.
It would also be easy for the seller to settle the issue if that were the case.
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tomwiii
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posted on May 13, 2004 10:12:00 AM new
MyToy:
1) Did the auction state GROUND, or did you assume GROUND shipping?
2) Did the auction state QUARANTEED SIGNATURE, or did you assume NOT??
3) Did you eliminate ALL the variable that a seller can use with UPS shipping, or did you assume that this seller does UPS the same as you do??
Be nice to LOOK at the auction number
749
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coincoach
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posted on May 13, 2004 10:16:46 AM new
myoldtoy--thank you for explaining how you came to determine UPS charge. I can imagine your surprise and frustration at this $58 charge. From the tone of the e-mails you received and the fact that exact shipping, or more clear shipping terms, were not included in the description, demonstrates that he/she is not one of eBay's best sellers. My main point, really, is for a buyer's own protection, they should e-mail the seller before bidding. No assumptions or surprises when auction is over.
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myoldtoy
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posted on May 13, 2004 10:17:30 AM new
coin: in my first post, i stated the actual size of the bowl; and then to give the seller's price of $58 the "benefit of the doubt," i almost doubled the size - and still came up with $34...in reality, if it is packed closer to the actual size of the bowl, the ACTUALUPS becomes 28.50...of course, if damaged, ups would not cover, since guidelines not met...
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..and, you said, "That, to me, is vague." and you right - seeing only parts of the available info, but i did have posted the pertinent info that explains where i arrived at the amount.
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..and listen, i am a big boy, and will resolve this situation to the benefit of the seller and myself..and i wont postscript by saying, "unless,"
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myoldtoy
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dadofstickboy
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posted on May 13, 2004 10:19:12 AM new
Never bid on anything that says actual shipping.
Unless you Email them and ask what actual shipping is going to be to your Zip.
Do it before you Bid!
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stopwhining
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posted on May 13, 2004 10:22:08 AM new
only on ebay where sellers are also buyers and buyers are also sellers where you have buyer telling seller how to run her business,or her shipping dept??
-sig file -------we eat to live,not live to eat.
Benjamin Franklin
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whatnot3
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posted on May 13, 2004 11:01:17 AM new
Did you actually lookup the rate on ups.com?
They can't ship it anywhere near $34 (assuming zone 7 by your posts) without a daily pickup account.
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tomwiii
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posted on May 13, 2004 11:07:51 AM new
Ahhhhhhhh.....
The plot thickens...
The pot boils...
The fur flies...
 
749
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on May 13, 2004 11:15:41 AM new
I wonder if the seller intends to double-box the item. If it's glass, that would certainly be prudent. And I wonder if the seller has gone out and purchased the optimum size box. Somehow I doubt it.
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myoldtoy
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posted on May 13, 2004 11:40:00 AM new
Ladies and gentlemen all...
FINALLLLLLLLLLLLLY,
i am about to go do something productive...i am going to a "household/junk/collectble/antique once a week get grimy auction" in a 20 acre field -believe it or not, they dont even charge a buyers premium - but then they dont take checks - paypal either... GONNA MINGLE WITH THE BEAT UP 56 GMC P/UPPRS AND THE HUMMERS....and before i go, i apologize for exploiting everyone's morn with this post...
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to whatnot: no i didnt use dotcom. i call ups and get the quote. dont know how you arrived at "they cant ship it anywhere near $34." ... i respectively submit that: you run the numbers...THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I GAVE UPS....my zip-30446 to olympia,WA., 98501[i think this is the most expensive tariff on ups...its the same as it if was key west to olympia]...the box size is listed in my post; which i over-estimated and oversized...i estimated the packed weight at 30lbs..that a lot of packing/double boxing for a 5 lbs punchbowl...the needed factors: it is residential, phone ups, for pickup, your packaging, $100insur, do not have account,and the number is:::: $34.40...
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and to Fluff; that is exactly why i added such large increases to the dimensions...to give the benefit of the doubt to the ACTUAL COST....This is how i would-and have packed the same punch bowl for shipment...myoldtoy
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whatnot3
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posted on May 13, 2004 12:01:56 PM new
I just tried those zip codes.
They most likely don't have a UPS account and will take it to a retail location. This is what I got:
--------------------------------------------
Service Total (All Packages) Days In Transit
UPS Sonic Air ®
Guaranteed by: Same Day*
See Note* Same Day*
UPS Next Day Air ®
Guaranteed by: 12:00 P.M.
Friday May 14, 2004
259.75*
UPS Next Day Air Saver ®
Guaranteed by: By End of Day
Friday May 14, 2004
247.56*
UPS 2nd Day Air ®
Guaranteed by: By End of Day
Monday May 17, 2004
200.34*
UPS 3 Day Select ®
Guaranteed by: By End of Day
Tuesday May 18, 2004
145.96*
UPS Ground
Guaranteed by: By End of Day
Thursday May 20, 2004
61.75
Prices may vary at retail locations.
Result estimates calculated by UPS: Thursday,May 13, 2004 2:59 P.M. Eastern Time (USA)
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