OhMsLucy
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posted on July 6, 2004 12:38:26 PM new
Hi all,
This is interesting and very welcome news to me.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/announcement/upi.html
Lucy
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Reamond
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posted on July 6, 2004 12:50:26 PM new
But it looks as though the "mutual" agreement not to transact prevents a buyer from getting a strike.
How many sellers will just do the mutual thing to avoid a neg or other problems to get their fees refunded ?
It looks to me like a tool giving the NPB more levewrage to walk away from the sale.
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OhMsLucy
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posted on July 6, 2004 01:33:58 PM new
It is always possible to find something wrong or imperfect if one looks hard enough. Although this may not be a perfect solution it's better than what we had before.
I see no references to feedback being allowed or not allowed. Hopefully eBay will address that issue next.
I'm particularly interested in what eBay means here:
Buying Limits and Remedies - To ensure responsible buying on eBay, we are establishing buying limits and offering stricter remedies (such as asking users to register for PayPal or putting a credit card on file) to remove these limits.
Lucy
Edited to add: 12. If the buyer does not respond to a mutual agreement request, is the buyer assigned an Unpaid Item strike?
Yes. Buyers who do not pay for their item and did not participate in the Unpaid Item resolution process are given a UPI strike, even if the seller selected the "Mutual Agreement Not to Proceed" option.
[ edited by OhMsLucy on Jul 6, 2004 01:35 PM ]
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buyhigh
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posted on July 6, 2004 03:10:33 PM new
Maybe I am a little thick today but please explain - if a buyer responds to the so called "mutual agreement" and states he/she does not want the item, isn't that just walking away scott free? Does that mean that as long as as they respond there are no 3 strikes and you are out?
buyhigh
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beatnikera
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posted on July 6, 2004 03:19:25 PM new
"...eBay is working to fined new ways to alert buyers..."
Nice typo there eBay!
The word is *find* not "fined"
From the site:
Buyer/Seller Communication - Many Unpaid Items are the result of inability of buyers and sellers to communicate through regular channels. eBay is working to fined new ways to alert buyers and sellers whose contact information is not updated or who use spam filters to block messages from eBay and its sellers.
[ edited by beatnikera on Jul 6, 2004 03:22 PM ]
[ edited by beatnikera on Jul 6, 2004 03:23 PM ]
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tomwiii
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posted on July 6, 2004 03:35:36 PM new
picky...picky...
Ya want GOOD GRAMMAR or GOOD TASTE??
LSMFT
852
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OhMsLucy
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posted on July 6, 2004 03:43:52 PM new
As far as I know, under the present NPB policy, if a transaction cancels by mutual agreement the buyer doesn't get a strike.
I could be wrong... Wouldn't be the first time! 
Lucy
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tomwiii
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posted on July 6, 2004 03:45:29 PM new
ye be correcto-mundo
852
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estatesalestuff
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posted on July 6, 2004 04:36:39 PM new
lol tomwii ... I am "just pc ignorant enough" to need to look up (google) your "Ya want GOOD GRAMMAR or GOOD TASTE?? LSMFT"
for me, googling for LSMFT meant, Lucky Strike Means Fine Tobacco" .... is that what you were saying? LOL
Marcia/Akron/Ohio
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tomwiii
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posted on July 6, 2004 04:42:59 PM new
If memory serves, the "Good grammar..." was a WINSTON campaign in response to critism to one of their other campaigns: "Winston tastes good, like a UNGH-UNGH, cigarette should"
I think???
OTOH: Ralph insists the he'd rather fight...
852
[ edited by tomwiii on Jul 6, 2004 04:43 PM ]
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estatesalestuff
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posted on July 6, 2004 04:59:21 PM new
Ahhh yes ... rather fight .... than switch  ....
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max40
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posted on July 6, 2004 05:48:25 PM new
I'd walk a mile for a ---
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estatesalestuff
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posted on July 6, 2004 06:02:16 PM new
LOL ... show us your Lark!
edited to add: sorry for our/my diversion ... I think we're getting old.
[ edited by estatesalestuff on Jul 6, 2004 06:03 PM ]
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Reamond
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posted on July 6, 2004 06:21:40 PM new
It is always possible to find something wrong or imperfect if one looks hard enough. Although this may not be a perfect solution it's better than what we had before.
I didn't look hard at all. But how is it any better ? Under the old system I sent the alert and then requested my fees.
Now we have just as many hoops, but it now gives NPBs a free ride through the mutual agreement scheme.
Under the old system you could just check off the mutual rescind and be done with it.
I am still wondering what is better with the new system ?
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max40
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posted on July 6, 2004 06:29:07 PM new
http://www.singingman.us/DYR.htm
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buyhigh
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posted on July 6, 2004 07:18:23 PM new
Agree with Reamond - Now a buyer can have 2nd thoughts about purchase numerous times and continually give the old time worn phony excuses for not paying without any penalty. Cannot see where the new system is of any benefit to the seller but I suspect that somewhere EBAY gains.
buyhigh
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meadowlark
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posted on July 6, 2004 07:59:48 PM new
Max, I enjoyed the site!
You've Come a Long Way, Baby (Virginia Slims)
Paging Phillip Morris!
Yeah, Seems like the new mutual agreement will just have sellers agreeing to it so they get their FVF back, with no negative feedback. The buyer contesting it will likley just end as badly as NPBs before. Meaning a round of negs. Ebay can penalize a buyer but cannot MAKE them pay. This must be eBay's bass ackwards way of cutting down on neg feedback on unpaids. Not the best solution.
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dadofstickboy
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posted on July 6, 2004 08:09:59 PM new
Let's not forget:
It's not how long you make it, But how you make it long.
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sparkz
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posted on July 6, 2004 08:24:24 PM new
Am I missing something here? I don't see any reference in this new policy about feedback, including no feedback for mutual agreement cases. Where are you finding the provision that a seller can avoid a neg by a mutual agreement not to complete a transaction? The only thing I can gather is that a seller would be stupid to offer a mutual agreement as he would be risking his FVF credit if he failed to jump through the proper hoop at exactly the right moment.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
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jackswebb
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posted on July 6, 2004 08:24:43 PM new
Bottom line,,,,,,Does e bay Still make money?
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buyhigh
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posted on July 6, 2004 09:39:12 PM new
Sure E-Bay still makes money. If you get a lot of non-paying bidders who are not worried anymore about the 3 strikes rule due to a mutual agreement reply, e-Bay gets the relist gallery fee on that auction and if you host your pics with e-bay, do they not get additional fees for the more than 1 pic when you relist? Unless ofcourse you utilize the 2nd chance offer to other under bidders which I have heard has a high failure rate. Besides it probably ups their numbers as far as members registered and auctions listed.
buyhigh
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buyhigh
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posted on July 6, 2004 09:39:13 PM new
Sure E-Bay still makes money. If you get a lot of non-paying bidders who are not worried anymore about the 3 strikes rule due to a mutual agreement reply, e-Bay gets the relist gallery fee on that auction and if you host your pics with e-bay, do they not get additional fees for the more than 1 pic when you relist? Unless ofcourse you utilize the 2nd chance offer to other under bidders which I have heard has a high failure rate. Besides it probably ups their numbers as far as members registered and auctions listed.
buyhigh
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Reamond
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posted on July 6, 2004 10:09:05 PM new
Am I missing something here? I don't see any reference in this new policy about feedback, including no feedback for mutual agreement cases.
I am assuming that the buyer won't neg you if you mutually agree to rescind the sale.
I liked the old sytem as far as getting FVFs back. Just two steps over the given time period and you're done.
It seems as though eBay hopes that the deals will go through by providing these extra "communicating" steps and therefore get to keep the fees.
But it doesn't adequately address the repeater NPB problem.
eBay is leary of nailing NPB buyers. Buyers are the commodity that eBay sells to us and all the big companies that list on ebay. Sellers are easy to replace.
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Japerton
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posted on July 6, 2004 10:26:36 PM new
Okay...I want to try this...I have a bidder who point blank won't pay.
Where is the link on the selling My Ebay page?
Thanks peeps!
~~~~~~~~~~~**~~~~~~~~~~~
Avatar wish list....
...and he must possess a kind eye...
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sparkz
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posted on July 6, 2004 10:48:28 PM new
I would like them to repost that announcement, and leave out all the crap about the mutual agreement. It would be much easier for me to comprehend. In the 6 years I have been selling on Ebay, I have NEVER used the mutual agreement provision. If they bid and win my auction, they will pay me or they will get a NPB warning and the strike that goes along with it. I have no desire to negotiate a settlement with a deadbeat and am quite proud of the fact that my FVF request was strike three and has resulted in the suspension of at least two dozen deadbeats.
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
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Japerton
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posted on July 6, 2004 10:55:26 PM new
Oh uncle. I just filed a NPB, the heck wit' it!
The twonk won't pay, I just don't want a neg. That's the part that sucks!
~~~~~~~~~~~**~~~~~~~~~~~
Avatar wish list....
...and he must possess a kind eye...
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momofmy3kids
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posted on July 7, 2004 12:07:30 AM new
Here's the way I see it:
If anyone is stupid enough to use the mutual just to avoid a negative, how does that make them any better seller than a buyer? If they don't complete the transaction...it's a negative. The mutual is only for those positive non-completes.
I've only used the mutual for returns so that I could get my final value listing fee back. I only allow returns when I make the mistake. Otherwise, I go through the buyer did not pay.
I too am very annoyed that the feedback issue has not been addressed. If a Final Value Fee has been issued under the current and new system is a buyer able to leave feedback??
Well, maybe I'm not understanding the NPB process? wouldn't be a first time.
Taunya
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momofmy3kids
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posted on July 7, 2004 12:10:24 AM new
(Here's how I see the process, my notes in parenthese)
The process starts one of two ways.
(OPTION ONE) First, the seller can file an "Unpaid Item reminder" seven days after the listing closes. This reminder starts a set of onsite and email communications from eBay to the buyer reminding them that it is time to pay, giving instructions of how to do so, and allowing for structured communication with the seller.
(OPTION TWO) Second, the seller can file a "Mutual Agreement Not to Proceed". This option will prompt the buyer to confirm and, once the buyer does so, eBay will issue a Final Value Fee credit to the seller.
(I am assuming this is the last paragraph of Option One) The seller will also receive a Final Value Fee credit if the buyer fails to respond in 7 days (and the buyer will receive a strike).
(EBAY needs to take an english class. This makes sense only after you diagram it ARRGGGYH!)
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buyhigh
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posted on July 7, 2004 07:44:03 AM new
What I could and can not understand is why once a FVF is issued to a seller, the NPB is allowed to leave feedback for that listing. It would be simple to prevent that from happening After all Ebay lost money as well as the seller. However EBAY makes far more money from ther listings and embellishments than they do from their sales commissions so perhaps that was not considered.
buyhigh
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rozrr
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posted on July 7, 2004 09:11:55 AM new
I've always had a lot of non-US bidders who jump in, despite the fact that my ads carry additional **US BIDDERS ONLY** text.
So I'm happy that there will now be an official process for voiding non-US bidders on the spot if your ad says "will ship to the US only."
Up until now, the "live chat" people have been telling me that if someone violates your US-only TOS, you're free to simply ignore their winning bid and move immediately on the "second chance" to the first underbidder in the US. But if you want to recoup your FVF on the "sale" to the non-US bidder, you have to go through the NPB/FVF process where the bidder is going to get that NPB notice from eBay telling him/her to contact the seller and send payment.
Usually, I manage to catch and cancel the non-US bidders while the auction is still in progress, but the two that got by me and became winning bidders - oh, man, what a mess, to try to explain to someone who doesn't speak English very well why, if his winning bid is cancelled, he's getting that NPB notice from eBay.
Then they want to argue that they're not really NPBs because they want to pay for it - when the "second chance" has long since been accepted by the underbidder and the box has been delivered.
So I'm really glad they're cleaning up that one.
But I don't see any mention of whether a voided non-US bidder can still leave feedback (????).
That's always been the risk factor - that the person who's cussing me out in bad English in email will cuss me out in feedback.
It would be logical if the non-US bidder is blocked from feedback once the bid is voided - but I wonder if eBay has thought about that angle. Surely, they've gotten lots of emails about the problem.
The other thing I think is good is that if someone doesn't want something, the buyer and seller can move for a mutual cancellation and the seller can get his/her FVF back faster.
Maybe that will encourage the people who decide they don't want an item to step forward and admit it, rather than not responding and dragging it out.
But this release from eBay definitely needs to address the question of feedback in a lot of the situations it outlines.
My guess is that eBay is now getting bombarded with questions about feedback under the new system and will issue a follow-on release that answers the obvious questions - one way or another.
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