posted on July 16, 2004 06:25:28 PM new
If only I could figure out what you two are high-five'ing each other over.
Poor Cheryl. You come on here and rail about how your evil competition uses words in ways that you don't like. You said NOTHING in your original post about sellers misrepresenting stones as genuine.
What you said in your original post was:
I don't use Peridot, Amethyst, etc. in the title and then declare them Peridot "crystals" in the description.
It's not until later that you decide your actual beef is with people who set out to misrepresent synthetic stones or glass stones as genuine peridots.
I see nothing wrong with using "peridot" in the title and amplifying in the description as to whether the stone is natural, synthetic, simulated, etc. And as I've pointed out several times now, Item Specifics addresses this EXACT issue. I assume you two are ignoring that aspect of it since it doesn't fit in with your whining.
However, I do not support the use of the term "genuine peridot" to mean anything other than a genuine natural peridot.
posted on July 16, 2004 06:26:45 PM new
I agree with Neroter Cheryl ~! After being in three "brick & mortar" businesses for 24+ years, I can't even imagine charging someone ONLY for the exact cost of shipping! The profit margins on eBay are minimal at best and you have labor, boxes, envelopes, paper, bubble wrap, tape, ink, etc etc...not to mention time to go to the post office, stand in line, gasoline to get there, etc etc. WHY would you NOT charge a shipping & handling fee. Why EAT anything? CHARGE Cheryl! It is not unfair, it is good business...especially if you are running a true business~!
posted on July 16, 2004 08:14:41 PM new
Here is a perfect example.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10269&item=4912168499
This auction has it all. A 12mm Rich blue tanzanite starting at a dollar.
Right!!!
If you shuffle your way through the fine print it explains that the box it came out of said "Tanzanites 8.25cts 12mm Round".
Seller then goes on to say that the stone is flawless and perfectly cut.
They also offer to sell something called "wishing pearls" outside of ebay.
I guess I am just cynical but this just does not look like an accurately described auction to me. I am sure that someone will pipe up and point out that the seller is very careful not to say "natural" or "genuine" anywhere in there auction. In some minds that makes it perfectly OK. It isn't.
As I previously stated not my way of doing business. But obviously standard operating procedure for others.
Regards,
Adrian
posted on July 16, 2004 09:11:56 PM new
I am seeing auctions for a penny that don't offer anything only a link to the sellers E-Bay Store. Some of these Sellers are getting pretty crafty.
posted on July 16, 2004 11:08:28 PM new
Cheryl I think you are like me, well in selling that is. I use to do actual mailing until I bought items that I paid a $1.25 for shipping and it was shipped for 37 cents. $1.50 and it was shipped for 57 cents. So now I have wised up and charge about 70 cents higher than the actual shipping but what I do is combine shipping and the more they buy the cheaper the postage gets, not so cheap I end up paying though. If I sell 1-2 ties it is $2.25, but if I sell 4 ties to the same person it is only $2.75. so for 50 cents more they can buy 2 more ties. The 2 ties I make on the shipping, the next 2 ties I make on the product. I hope that is clear. I also send my jewelry 1st class in a bubble envelope because you can make a higher profit doing that instead of sending it Priority because buyers usually will not pay higher for Priority but will go extra money for 1st class. I see other sellers doing this all the time. It's time you and I get on that list also.
I have never use a gemstone to describe color in my jewelry. I would never say Peridot, or ruby to describe a color. That thought never occured to me as I try and describe each piece to be best of my knowledge.
If they pay by PayPal you can always use their labels and hide the mailing price of your item. You can even make a profit paying the extra fee PayPal charges for 1st class.
[ edited by Libra63 on Jul 17, 2004 08:21 AM ]
posted on July 16, 2004 11:29:09 PM new
It's very common in beading, though, and a lot of what she sells is beaded jewelry.
It's been a while, though since I've peeked at your auctions, Cheryl. BTW how did those wonderful buttons do?
I was so busy I didn't get to even follow the auction...the ol' hayburner needed some sprucing up.
Go to Jewelry, which has loose beads as a sub-catagory and type in sapphire, garnet or peridot and you will get lots of beads: Seed, rocailles, bugle, pressed, cut and lampworked...people use gemstone names for the glass colors, not just people, bead companies too. Hate to say it, but my Miyuki stash has three to five VERSIONS of sapphire blue, with the different finishes, transparencies and lusters.
If I make a necklace using these beads I will surely mention that particular color.
If you sell a necklace that has peridot colored glass beads that is as clear as a bell compared to a peridot set into a ring. But at least with the glass bead you know it's glass.
With a "genuine peridot" it might be a heat treated stone. So, that's the rub with fine jewelry.
I think best jewelry advice is from Adrian. if you are going to sell that sort of thing, offer appraisals and provenance. The garbage in the jewelry section, humble beads aside, is quite amazing.
I'd rather have a well constructed piece of costume jewelry, and I've won awards for my work so I know a little of which I speak, than wear a featherlight bendable piece of gold that won't hold up to even minor wear and is probably worth more to the scrap buyer.
Me-freakin'-ow!
(surely I am spelling sapphire right? saphire. hmmm)
posted on July 17, 2004 03:02:50 AM new
iareateacher
If that's the way you want to do things, that's fine - for you. Some people get tired of searching for things and then having to weed through a lot of irrelevant auctions. Guess I don't want to be a part of that. You started the argument, not Adrian or me.
Libra
Japerton
The buttons did very well. Those that didn't sell are being put to good use. I've started crocheting small handbags for my granddaughter and great-nieces. I'm going to use the extra buttons on the purses and give them out for Christmas!
Glass beads are different than synthetic stones. I've seen some very beautiful glass beaded necklaces (I have a few) especially on the vintage and antique ones. I tried making jewelry from beading once, but I ended up with more stuck into the carpet than I did on the string! LOL! I still sweep them up from time-to-time.
Is it possible to post anything you've made? Purely as an example, don't you know?
posted on July 17, 2004 03:48:12 AM new
Hi Cheryl - how's the weather in your area? Here in Central New York it has rained for an entire week. I agree with you, it is very frustrating to search auctions and click on so many that are misleading. I think eBay is more like a flea market than a garage sale, and there are always sellers at flea markets that are not entirely honest. It may be old fashioned, but "honesty is the best policy." I sell mostly estate jewelry, fine and costume. I used to ship everything Priority at exact shipping cost, like you. But when I filed my taxes, the accountant pointed out that I used tissue to pad the box, drove to the Post Office, etc. I did not want to add to the $3.85 Priority rate, so now I buy #2 bubble envelopes, use recycled boxes to protect the jewelry, and charge a flat $3.00. I always add delivery confirmation. So I usually end up with $1.00 or a little more in profit. I always ship free with BIN. Seems to work well, I have had many customers thank me for my low shipping. I have seen lots of jewelry sellers that charge as much as $15.00 to ship a ring. I agree that item titles are what lure buyers to your auction, but you can be enticing and still honest. The gallery pictures help, too. Take care, and please don't give in!
It's raining here as well. We had an extreme amount of rain in June then it dried up for most of July and now were back into the rainy season again. It's been unusually cool here as well. Everytime I hear that there is a cold or cool front coming I cringe. It's really ruined the garage sale and flea market season here. Not to mention we've had to cancel a lot of our bike trips. Oh, well, you never know what you're going to get along the shores of Lake Erie!
posted on July 17, 2004 04:39:20 AM new
With us, it's Lake Ontario. Same deal, lake effect snow, lake effect rain. How about some lake effect sunshine? We were in Niagara Falls last weekend for a powwow. It was a three day event, and we roasted! My guy makes Iroquois crafts, and we were trapped in our booth. We had to make a run to Wal-Mart to buy a tarp and some clamps so we could have some shade. Then on Monday the rain started and hasn't stopped. It is briefly sunny now, but getting cloudy and rain is predicted again. The lakes and creeks are very high. I used to live just outside of Erie, PA, so I know how Lake Erie can be. Anyway, take care and stay dry!
Wow, is your husband Iroquois? My husband's grandmother was Cherokee. My children are fiercely proud and my daughter is now researching the family. His grandmother was from Tennessee.
posted on July 17, 2004 06:29:05 AM new
Bill is a member of the Oneida Nation. The Iroquois Confederacy is made up of several tribes like Seneca, Mohawk, Onondaga, Cayuga and Oneida. Actually, there is no Iroquois tribe, it is the name of the Confederacy. I'm from the U.K., and I'm Welsh (and fiercely proud of that, too!)
posted on July 18, 2004 11:39:09 AM new
Cheryl, I just happened on a jewelry seller (not going to post because I dont know if its someone who posts here) but their standard shipping is 7.95!!!
They have 2043 sales past month with 40 neutrals and 44 negs. And most of the negs or neutrals are not about the shipping charges (some are)...but go fig-ya! People are paying it!
posted on July 18, 2004 10:43:25 PM new
Hi Cheryl
I will have to get a pix loaded to my other server, will do.
Also, Cheryl I am curious, and confused, if the peridot is crystal, then it is a glass bead, lead glass, versus rock crystal I presume? (Isn't rock crystal really expensive? I've seen it in fine pieces and very expensive chandeliers)
If it is a synthetic it's still peridot, but man made, but it would then actually be peridot.
If it's another type of color corrected stone, then isn't it an imitation? I don't know the details of what is used to make certain imitations, largely because I don't even know if it's cost effective to make imitation peridot, for example.
I am just trying to figure out labeling of components in the necklaces.
I think it was FWC who said jewelry is the most unregulated area to sell in, not to put words in her mouth, but I am understanding that there is a lot of latitude in what makes up minimum acceptability for certain definitions.
I am hoping Adrian can explain this to me. In the meantime, I need to do some reading.
J
Rock Crystal is a quartz and it is relatively cheap and plentiful. It's the same with stones like Citrine. I think it becomes expensive when you have to cut it for things like chandeliers. I've watched my brother cut stones and it's extremely time consuming and tedious. Not to mention risky. He once was cutting a diamond, it slipped out of the device that was holding it and ended up down a hole in the floor baseboard that led to the inside of the walls. It was a 3 carat diamond. He actually cried. Don't blame him.
I don't consider "lab created" as a real stone. Some people like the lab created because they are (for the most part) flawless. A CZ is an example of that. CZ's don't sell for much money at all, at least not on eBay. I've seen them in stores for a lot of money though. I just recently found out that Cherry Quartz is really a clear quartz colored red! I'm sure Adrian can shed some light on the subject.
I love crystals, but if I'm looking for a piece to go with something else I have, I want the same stones in it. My brother and his partner gave me a gorgeous Peridot bracelet set in silver and gold and a pair of Peridot earrings. All I needed was the necklace. Since the other pieces are the real thing, I'd like the necklace to be as well. The necklace I found at the shop near home is not an exact match, but it's close enough. I have several crystal necklaces myself. My brother's partner is a gemologist (sp?) and the only stones he'll carry in his antique store are Sapphires, Emeralds, Rubies, Diamonds, Opals and the like (which is why I am given a lot of semi-precious jewelry from them). He considers Peridot, Citrine and Crystals, etc. to be high-end costume stuff.
Cheryl
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Jul 19, 2004 04:11 AM ]
posted on July 19, 2004 04:51:54 AM new
Dear Cheryl,
I know exactly what you mean. I see people (power sellers) and think, they just sell junk, overcharge for shipping and get paid big bucks! I am only at approx 100 sales because I pick and choose without ripping people off. HOWEVER, I am in this to try and make a little extra money for myself. I have underestimated shipping and handling for the last time and resorted to making sure that I don't have to use part of my small profit to ship something. In actuallity, people pay for what they want! I have tried to find the middle of the road on this one myself. Now, I let the buyers calculate the shipping on their zip code, but I clearly state that there is an additional 1.80 handling charge, .55 of it is for the delivery confirmation. That way I'm not overcharging but getting paid for things like boxes (when I have buy them), packing tape, labels, etc.
I just wanted to let you know that your not alone and other sellers feel the same way.
Irene
bizzierbee
posted on July 19, 2004 06:36:56 AM new
bizzierbee
I know what you mean about under charging for shipping. I've done it a total of three times. Of those three, one bidder surprised me by sending extra money with her check. It was over what the shipping would have been. When I emailed her and asked her if she'd like the extra $3 back, she said, "No". That money was because she knew what packaging, etc. cost. Turns out she was another seller who had experienced the same thing. There are still honest people out there! I sent her along an extra surprise.
posted on July 19, 2004 07:15:07 AM new
Hi Japerton,
Basically there are three thing to consider.
Natural or genuine gemstones, Mined from the earth and cut or fashioned in some way to be more attractive. Sometimes various enhancements are carried out on natural gems to improve clarity and colour. eg plain heating of sapphires to remove silk. Oiling of emeralds to improve clarity by filling cracks. In these two instances treatment is so common that if you are unsure whether a stone is treated or not, it safe to assume that it is.
Synthetic Gemstones. These are man made gems that consist of the same chemical makeup as the natural version only lab created. As Cheryl said they are popular because they are flawless and usually cheaper than their natural counterpart. Although some synthetics are quite expensive. Genuine synthetic alexandrite(chrysoberyl) is very expensive. The rough alone can cost $30/carat. There is a synthetic corundum that has an alexandrite type colour change but it is very cheap at around $0.20 per carat rough. Synthetic diamonds are hideously expensive go to Lifegem.com to see what I mean. Synthetic gems usually have the same chemical, physical and optical properties of their natural counterparts.
Simulants. These are materials that are coloured to look like certain gems but actually are not chemically, physically or optically related. Originally glass was the most common material used because it is easy to colour during manufacture. Today CZ is the most common simulant because it not only comes in a huge array of colours but is harder than glass and has a much higher R.I. and Dispersion. (More sparkle and fire). Early on Quartz(rock crystal) was used to simulated a variety of gems. One of the most common involved heating a piece of quartz until it developed cracks everywhere. Then it was boiled in emerald coloured dye. The dye would seep into the cracks and thus colour the whole stone.
The bead market is fairly foreign to me. As far as I am aware the beads are lead or silver glass. Which is also known as crystal. eg Bohemian Crystals glassware. (lead crystal). It is common to see these beads in colours similar to gemstones and so the manufacturer calls them by gemstone names to make them more attractive.
To quote your example. A synthetic peridot is still a peridot, right?
Chemically, yes. Optically, yes. Physically, yes. But because it was man made it should always be identified as such. Synthetics are freely available and cheap to produce. Natural gems, are by definition rare and doomed to run out of supply eventually. That is where the value lies along with the difficulty in extracting them from their host environment.
Synthetics should always have LAB or Created in their description. Some of the synthetics are incredibly difficult to distinguish from their natural counterparts. eg. Amethyst and the other syn quartz minerals. Even a gemmologist with specialist equipment has to work hard on this one.
Anyway I hope I answered your questions. It is pretty late here I hope I didn't ramble too much. Otherwise the post police will pick it to bits. "See" you in the morning.
Regards,
Adrian
Edited to fix the glaring typos.
[ edited by zircon4 on Jul 19, 2004 07:20 AM ]
posted on July 19, 2004 01:05:13 PM new
Cheryl, honesty and integrity are key to success on ebay. I just hit 4000 positives today, and I started thinking about how I accomplished that, especially since I target mostly younger 18-30 somethings who don't have much money, skip out on payments, and retaliate when they don't pay. I managed to do it by being honest and communicative. The key is learning how to market your honesty and integrity. Perhaps you should consider creating a short, one or two sentance mission statement that reflects your beliefs, your business approach, and how you differ from the rest of those dishonest sellers. Put it at the top of your item descriptions so that people read about you and how you do business. It definately doesn't hurt to put the spotlight on yourself. Hold your head up, and shout it out!!!
As for shipping, charge that extra little bit. I charge $5.00 for shipping something under a pound. With Paypal, Vendio, Stamps.com, and eBay putting their hands in our cookie jar, we need to cover our expenses. They add up quickly, especially when you sell items under $20.00. The people who make good livings on ebay tend to sell high ticket items because they make $50 or more per item. Also, if you have a good history of feedback, don't try to lowball your prices to compete with dishonest bidders. About 2 months ago, I started researching some of the items I sell, and realized many were collectible. I had been listing them for $9.95 to start, and would get 3-5 bids which would reach $10-15. I decided to experiment and raise the price to $19.95 or $24.95. I've found many people more than willing to pay for something unique. I may only get 1 to 3 bids now on the item, but who cares how many bids you get if in the end you are doubling what you used to get?
Look at improving the quality of your items if the cost is relatively low, then you can charge more. Ebay is no different than any other market in the world. Once something goes out of style, nobody wants it. You have to stay ahead of the game.
posted on July 19, 2004 01:28:56 PM newSome people get tired of searching for things and then having to weed through a lot of irrelevant auctions.
I have now explained to you three times (which is twice more than I give most people) how Item Specifics will solve this problem when it is fully implemented.
It seems there is no reasoning with obstinate obtuseness, however...
posted on July 19, 2004 01:31:13 PM new
Cheryl I think things changed when eBay changed the categories. In order for someone to be listed in many categories and not pay for it they have to add enhancements to get them into another category. Costume jewelry is one. In my estimation costume is costume and not fine. Rhinestones are rhinestones not peridot rhinestones. But this is how the seller gets into another category without payment so they are going to do it.
If I have a piece that I think needs both vintage and fashion I do list in two catagories. One catagory is vintage signed and fashion unsigned then I say in my description check my other auctions. It's probably wrong but that is what I do.
When I list my colored rhinestones I list color. i.e blue is blue rhinestone not sapphire rhinestone.
Business has been bad and sellers aren't making as much money so they need to rethink how they list with the least amount of money.
posted on July 19, 2004 01:56:43 PM new
To those who want to know, iareateacher is not fluffy! Fluffy and I had our differences a while ago (only once or twice), but even fluffy isn't so obstinate and she rarely, if ever, talks so down to people. I doubt she would ever post her email address here for all to see.
Adrian - Good explanation. I've been reading a bit on gemology. There is a lot to know and it's pretty interesting. Glad to have you here to help us along.
rustygumbo
Congrats on 4000! I'm struggling to make it to 800.
Libra
I have to agree with you on the category changes. Categories I used to list in are no longer there. They've put some back just when I got used to item specifics. The Pottery & Glass category is a perfect example! Jewelry is a toughie, all right.
iareateacher
Make snide comments all you want. People will be quick to ignore you.
posted on July 19, 2004 02:45:00 PM new
I guess the bottom line in all of this is that you shouldn't make changes to your business plan IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE! Keep in mind that there are other sellers who will use "Peridot" to describe color. Until item specifics is implemented in your category, buyers are just going to have to wade through. It does little good to rant about it here.
The fact that other sellers use "Peridot" as a color description does not make them crooks or dishonest. Only if they say the stones are GENUINE would they qualify as crooks or dishonest.
BTW - I THINK PERIDOT IS AN UGLY COLOR! I'd scroll right by that one
As for shipping, charge what the market will bear. If the market will not allow you to charge enough to cover your costs plus a little, and you can't cover expenses in your profit on the sale, then perhaps it is time to look at another product.
I don't think the teacher is talking down to anybody. The number of posts someone has made has no bearing on the validity of his/her opinion. Likewise, Teacher, there are posts written in haste, or under the influence (or lack of influence) of caffeine, Two Buck Chuck or WHATEVER that are not very well thought out and/or clearly expressed. You just have to figure that in the equation. This isn't an English midquarter exam for Pete's sake!
I will someday learn not to post here after posting on the RT board. LOL! That's really being "under the influence". Sometimes I may not word things exactly like I mean to, but that's no reason to get huffy about anything.
iareateacher
I suppose we are getting off on the wrong foot and I will apologize for my number of posts remark. I don't spend all day here. I've been a part of the board for four years. I work full-time and do this in the evening to escape a house full of men! Sometimes I think Ken, my "domestic associate", can be more annoying than my 20 year old son and his friends. Who, BTW, are here from 6:00 p.m. until well after dark. Enough to drive anyone mad.
Edited to add: Just looked at my number of posts. It really adds up. However, I post more on the RT board than on this one.
Cheryl
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Jul 19, 2004 03:40 PM ]
I use to do actual mailing until I bought items that I paid a $1.25 for shipping and it was shipped for 37 cents. $1.50 and it was shipped for 57 cents. So now I have wised up and charge about 70 cents higher than the actual shipping but what I do is combine shipping and the more they buy the cheaper the postage gets, not so cheap I end up paying though. If I sell 1-2 ties it is $2.25, but if I sell 4 ties to the same person it is only $2.75. so for 50 cents more they can buy 2 more ties. The 2 ties I make on the shipping, the next 2 ties I make on the product. I hope that is clear. I also send my jewelry 1st class in a bubble envelope because you can make a higher profit doing that instead of sending it Priority because buyers usually will not pay higher for Priority but will go extra money for 1st class. I see other sellers doing this all the time. It's time you and I get on that list also.
Sniping works up a thirst"