posted on February 7, 2005 05:36:11 AM new
EBay to Trim Listing Fee on Low-Cost Items, but Sellers Aren't Appeased
By David Colker, Times Staff Writer
With many of EBay Inc.'s most faithful sellers in revolt over a rate hike, the online auctioneer said Sunday that it would lower one type of seller fee starting today.
If that's supposed to be a peace offering, sellers aren't buying it.
The fee break is on the cost of listing an auction item on the site, from 30 cents to 25 cents. But there's a catch — it applies only to listings that start bidding at 99 cents or less, which are usually for items such as used CDs.
"They are just throwing us a crumb," said David Steiner, co-founder of the online newsletter AuctionBytes.com.
The uproar started last month when EBay said that sellers with individual e-commerce stores on the site — including some of the most active sellers — would pay EBay a minimum 8% commission as of Feb. 18 on items sold, up from 5.25%. EBay also said the monthly fee would go from $9.95 to $15.95.
In response, numerous sellers said they would look for alternatives to EBay. And Frances Neale of Olympia, Wash., who operates the JustonceOnline store, which stocks about 2,000 items at a time, said the rate break announced Sunday wouldn't dissuade her from going elsewhere.
"I sell books that are worth $200 and other nice things." Neale said. "Most sellers on EBay can't start at 99 cents."
A company spokesman said Sunday that EBay was taking many steps to benefit people with e-commerce stores on the website, boosting customer support and giving them a one-time rebate on the $15.95 monthly fee.
But Neale said the commission rate hike would really hurt.
"Customer service for us does not improve our business at all," she said. "What EBay has to remember is that there is no EBay without us sellers."
I know most of you will not appricate what I am about to say, .........
I Don't care what fee is for what starting price, the bottom line is if YOUR not making money then any fee is too much.
I feel if I am making a profit on what I sell I should pay a fee for this service, and I as most all of you don't appricate the increase but for what I get in return I will handle the new fees.
We just need to adjust Our prices according to the increase that we face, just like we all did when the postal fees went up, we all worked the increase into our shipping cost, or into our handling fees.
As for myself, I just cut back on fees that I felt I could get the same service for less elsewhere and now I am saving so much that the fee increase dose not bother me for what I get back in return.
None of use like what Ebay has been doing but we just need do things differently for ourselfs as sellers.
By Ebay Changing there fees it has made me Change my way of selling and now I save a bundle of $$$$, only because Ebay raised there fees did I talk a long look at the fees I have been paying to do the auctions.
All I am saying is maybe look at what it cost you in other areas and cut back what you feel is not necessary for you to be using.
I myself Know that Ebay is where the buyers are so I am not leaving but I have made many changes to how I do my auctions, and what services of Ebay I use.
posted on February 7, 2005 10:03:06 AM new
Toni, I agree with most of what you said.
However, I did write "Bill" yesterday after that genius announcement. I waited until the new fee schedule was published.
Lowering the bottom tier fee is totally nuts if they really are trying to improve the site.
The only group of sellers that their new discount will attract is the fee avoiding crowd who lists for .99 and charges $10 shipping for a .50 media mail item.
I don't see how that is going to help improve the ebay image or help the "quality" seller that Meg says she wants to attract.
posted on February 7, 2005 11:05:27 AM new
here's the letter I just fired off;
Hi Bill,
You are a very brave man to invite this avalanche of email you surely are receiving!
I have not sold on ebay for at least a year, and here's why;
I make a handcrafted item, that appeals to a few niche markets. I have to start my sale at a price that covers my time and expenses. That is NOT 99 cents. Also, it is customisable, and there is no support on ebay for goods presented like this. In the earlier days, I had auctions pulled for offering a choice of finishes to be applied after the purchase.
i believe that my work justifies its price. I find enough buyers that agree with me, to support what is essentially a paying hobby. But your corporate advertising attracted a vast new group of buyers- and sellers too- the bargain hunters. All the TV commercials I've seen talk about the BARGAINS on ebay. The sellers are looking for prices lower than Walmart. The new sellers are looking to sell at prices lower than Walmart. To make up the cost, they inflate shipping. I have seen auctions end at 99 cents, with a 25 dollar shipping fee.
It's NOT the fees which bother me, bill- they are still much cheaper than any brick and mortar store rental would be, and I don't have to pay insurance, etc. It's the fact that I can no longer achieve my selling price, due in part to the expectations of the new buyers that have come to ebay. Hell, I do it too! I go first to ebay, to find the cheapest price on whatever it is I am looking for. Not good for the sellers.
In my little field, I have new competition from a few people who are willing to sell their work for the price they get on ebay- as far as I can figure, they must be making a dollar an hour. That's their choice. Me, I won't do that. I may come back to ebay, Bill, but frankly, I will sell my seconds, with a big statement to that effect- and invite serious searchers to my website, where they can work with me to create exactly what they want. For auctions, I use a few tiny tiny sites, where the buyers are more knowlegable about the field. I don't sell as often, but I often create repeat customers there, and sometimes good friends. The way I used to do on ebay.
best wishes- Dragonmom
When I am an old woman, I shall wear purple
with a red hat that doesn't go, and doesn't suit me.
Your statement is true if we all had a 100% or near 100% sell through rate. The problem is with falling sell through rates, even ebay admits nearing 30%, the fees are eating up any realized profits you might be making on your combined items.
.
.
.
Alive in 2005
posted on February 7, 2005 04:35:23 PM new
Here's my note to Bill. I don't think it will do any good, but doing nothing won't for sure.
Hi Bill
I guess by now you regret giving all of us your e-mail. Since you did, I am going to take advantage of it.
I really wasn't all that upset about the fee increase. I didn't like it, but I understand. eBay is a business and you have to run it like a business. However, I am not at all happy about the fact that all these changes benefit and encourage all those buyers who start their auctions at 99 cents or a penny, then make their profit on shipping. Why are you doing this? You are alienating all the sellers who pay the seller fees and pandering to the ones who blatantly practice fee avoidance.
This past week, I had an auction ended by eBay because I had a phrase in the description that wholesale prices were available and instructing the buyer to contact me or use the link below. One link goes to my eBay store and the other goes to the page on my Vendio store that shows my eBay items. But the e-mail said it was fee avoidance. The only thing you accomplished was cutting my sales on wholesale lots, which eBay and I both made a lot more money on.
In the meantime, my biggest competitor sells the same item I do for 99 cents and charges $7.50 for postage on a 2 oz package. I sell that item for $6.99 and charge $1.25 for postage. When this guys negative feedback gets too high, he will get a new ID. He has done it several times. Did you end his 646 items? No, you end one of my 1640 items. Now you have lowered his listing fees. Please explain to me how that makes sense. Why would you rather have a seller who avoids paying fees, does not take care of his customers and gives eBay a bad reputation? Why would you try to make eBay a non profit venue for a business that pays their fees, brings business to eBay and has a good reputation thereby supporting the reputation that I would hope eBay wants?
I would really like for someone to explain this to me, because I am totally baffled by it all. If this is the direction that eBay has chosen to follow, I wish you would tell us all, so we could just pack up our toys and go elsewhere.
Thank You
Debbie - Gtootie
Be kind. Everyone is fighting their own secret battles.
...Author Unknown
posted on February 7, 2005 04:47:32 PM new
" However, I am not at all happy about the fact that all these changes benefit and encourage all those buyers who start their auctions at 99 cents or a penny"
-------
no offense, and not that i don't make mistakes ... but have you noticed how much people write to ebay and in error write the word 'buyer' instead of 'seller' ....
ummmm... those words are opposites.
I 'think' dragonmom did it too in her letter to Sweet Old Bill ..." The sellers are looking for prices lower than Walmart."
........................
I do agree with one angle dragonmom was trying to emphasize; that of people (shoppers/buyers) thinking they will find REAL dirt cheap type bargains on ebay, because that is what eBay perpetuates ... when you bring up your own or anybody's listings, the top bar of the window reads something like, "blah yada widgets at Low Prices" ...... they just STICK that in there! "at low prices" .... that has irked me for quite a while now ...
posted on February 7, 2005 05:06:23 PM new
Well Marcia, since you are pointing out other people's mistakes, complete sentences and punctuation can be a plus when writing. Good manners never hurt either. Besides, I think Ole Bill will get the point.
posted on February 7, 2005 05:51:35 PM new
gtootie -
You make a good point that when people sell for 99 cents but charge $7.50 for shipping and the box shows up with $1.25 in postage stamped on it - it's going to make for a certain number of neg's.
That's why it's so dangerous for a seller to play that game.
posted on February 7, 2005 05:57:57 PM new
sorry gtootie ... not really trying to 'point out' mistakes, cuz like i said, Lord knows I make plenty of them myself@!@ ... numero manyo (is that a word)? LOL ...
posted on February 7, 2005 06:02:52 PM new
Thank goodness none of you ever grade my spelling and syntax. I know I wouldbe in trouble. (That is why there are so many edits when I post)
Kevin
posted on February 7, 2005 06:12:25 PM new
like i said, sorry gtootie, dragonmom ... i did *not* intend to offend you in any way shape or form!!!!!! honest!!!! .. ..... i just notice a lot of people really DO switch the word 'buyer' and 'seller' when I'm quite sure they mean the opposite (when I read over on ebay's "community" [cough cough] board) ... you know ebay IS a "community" of light hearted friendly people ..... arghhhhhhhhhhhh (look at any of my neggers and neuts) {sigh} .... ... like jackwebb says ... the beat goes on ... luv you all~! ... we're a much tighter smaller network of give/take posters than on the other community boards, imo ..... heck, we even kiss and make up after too much 2buck chuck or coffee LOL
posted on February 7, 2005 06:31:11 PM new
Forgive me, please. ... yah, Jack and I are probably both fighting our own secret battles. I swear I am trying to be kind!!!! just pointing out my observations ...
Peace .... marcia/ohio
ooooh.... here's one Classicrock000 would like .... make love, not war lol
is there room for a P.S> ... like i said, i plenty full o' mistakes ... make a written list ... lose it etc.
posted on February 7, 2005 08:40:28 PM new
tootie: Excellent message to Bill. You made some very good points--points which actually should make Ebay sit up and take notice since it affects their bottom line. I'll be they didn't think this one through at all.
Re what someone just said here about word switching:
I too have noticed my own tendency to switch "seller" and "buyer" sometimes. The worst was when I was replying to an unfair neg--the only one I've ever gotten. I replied "Seller is wrong, but I would have refunded his money." I meant to say "buyer"!!! And there's no going back, either.
___________________________________
Is it true that the only difference between a yard sale and a trash pickup is how close to the road the stuff is placed?
posted on February 8, 2005 09:18:20 AM new
Who is Bill Cobb?
He is the brother to Corn.
**********************************
Two men sit behind bars,one sees mud the other sees stars.
posted on February 8, 2005 11:11:27 AM new
Article from today's San Jose Mercury
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/10846766.htm?1c
Loyalty of some eBay users is going, going. . .
By Mike Cassidy
Mercury News
There's trouble in the eBay Nation.
Remember when eBay was a dot-com darling? A site all about Pez dispensers and coming together? A Web-based love-in that was not so much about commerce, but about community?
Long gone. Now, a spat over money has turned eBay from warm and fuzzy to cold and ugly.
How bad is it? On Sunday, the San Jose company tried to calm customers who are furious over recently announced fee increases by lowering other fees on the auction site.
The result? More fury.
``They're feeding us a line of bull and they expect us to take it,'' says Rose Schmelzer, who sells specialty glass and collectibles on eBay.
It has been like this since mid-January when eBay announced that some fees sellers pay were going up. The Sunday announcement didn't roll back those January hikes, and it didn't do much to bring peace, either.
Schmelzer, who sells on eBay from her home in Wisconsin, says Sunday's announcement was a failed publicity stunt.
Schmelzer runs an ``eBay Store'' -- a status that comes, for a monthly fee, with the ability to build distinct pages of inventory. Next week, the monthly fee for running a store will go from $9.95 to $15.95 and commission fees will go up by anywhere from 52 percent to 100 percent depending on an item's price.
Schmelzer says eBay's Sunday announcement about lowering different fees -- for ``non-store'' items -- glossed over a few details. Sure, fees for non-store listings on the site would drop to 25 cents from 30 cents. But that's only for auction items with starting prices of 99 cents or less.
And yes, store owners would get one free month of service, but only if they stick with eBay through April. And the promise of better customer support -- including phone support?
``I've got a wait-and-see attitude on that,'' she says. ``I'm not quite believing it.''
Yes, Schmelzer and others are taking it personally.
Funny isn't it? For years, eBay built a reputation as a community. Users saw the site the way sports fanatics see their team. They were a part of something.
But now it seems, the deeper the loyalty the more painful the betrayal.
``There get to be emotions involved,'' says Robert Eierman, an eBay seller from Ridgecrest, Calif., who launched a protest auction selling a resignation letter for the company's executives to sign. ``It was kind of like you find out your spouse was cheating on you.''
Now eBay sellers talk of ``Greed-Bay'' and ``Fee-Bay.'' They've looked for solace on Web sites such as shmeebay.com and nolistingday.com. They've vented and plotted a weeklong boycott.
EBay chalks up the outrage to confusion. Most of the hikes will affect only those who run eBay stores. Company spokesman Hani Durzy says only 7 percent of eBay's listings are in stores. (Prices for some other services -- such as posting a photo -- are also going up.)
``We're not confused,'' Schmelzer says of sellers.
No, they're mad.
``EBay wasn't just a site to buy something on,'' says Eierman, who sells model airplane engines. ``EBay was a phenomenon. It was a good feeling.''
But now it doesn't feel so good. Ina Steiner, who has followed eBay for years and is editor of AuctionBytes, says members of the eBay Nation are shaken.
``They're looking down the road,'' she says of the once-faithful, ``and thinking eBay can at a moment's notice change the rules on us.''
And no doubt they're also thinking: We used to be so good together. How did it all go so wrong?
. free eBay user tools
posted on February 8, 2005 11:43:40 AM new"Remember when eBay was a dot-com darling? A site all about Pez dispensers and coming together?"
"Who could have possibly envisioned an erection — an election in Iraq at this point in history?" Prez. I-weasled-my-way-out-of-jury-duty-so-my-drunk-driving-conviction-could-be-kept-hidden-SO-ain't-I-just-a-poster-boy-for-GOOD-CITIZENSHIP?, at the White House, Washington, D.C., Jan. 10, 2005
posted on February 8, 2005 06:35:12 PM new
Re the story in the Merc:
Somebody be sure to tell me when the week-long boycott begins. I list only once in a while, and I don't want to stumble in when everyone else is boycotting
I love the bit about the auction for the letter of resignation.
posted on February 8, 2005 07:00:34 PM new
I am somewhat shocked to see no one touch on a particular part of the letter from the alleged eBay Bill...
"eBay Germany has always used this pricing, and users there have benefited from higher conversion rates on items with lower starting bids."
So, A) They admit that they have been sticking it American ebayers all this time. Those who helped eBay off the ground and make it the empire that it is today. Instead, they have been giving Germany a break from what we pay here in the USA. B) Germans, and Europeans on a larger scale have been screwing Americans all along because of their "higher conversion rates".
It is so nice for them to admit giving us the big old middle finger. I feel so much better now knowing that none of my auctions will be impacted by this new fee, and... the fact that it will only lead to further problems with low cost sellers who gouge bidders with shipping fees to make up the difference.
posted on February 8, 2005 07:12:08 PM new
Here's another article from today's San Jose Mercury News:
EBay promises improved service
LETTER RESPONDS TO ANGER OVER FEE INCREASES
By Michael Bazeley
Mercury News
EBay is moving to quell a wave of discontent among individuals and small merchants who sell on the leading online auction Web site.
In an unusual and contrite letter to members, a top eBay executive has acknowledged that recent fee increases, impersonal customer service and other changes to the site have alienated some users. Bill Cobb, president of eBay North America, vowed significant changes to customer-service practices and announced a slight fee reduction that will affect many sellers of lower-priced items.
The letter, e-mailed Sunday to members, comes just weeks after eBay announced a series of unpopular listing-fee increases, due to take effect later this month. But it also underscores the rising dissatisfaction among users about a series of changes at the world's largest online marketplace.
``The sense we've had is that sellers have felt increasingly disenfranchised,'' said Derek Brown, an equities analyst with Pacific Growth Equities in San Francisco. ``They're disenchanted with the marketplace and the policies and the management and the fees. And the most recent proposed price hike was like pouring salt into the wound.''
Series of missteps
EBay users are especially passionate about the service, and that passion helped build the San Jose company into the dominant online marketplace with revenue last year of $3.3 billion. It also has allowed eBay to adopt several fee increases over the years without significant dissent.
But the latest increases, aimed mostly at eBay users with online stores, came on the heels of a series of controversial changes and missteps over the past year. Those include billing problems last year that mangled invoices and double-billed some sellers, a redesign of portions of the Web site, and changes to the way some items are categorized.
Lori Teslow, a hobbyist eBay seller who uses the online moniker ``virtualconsignmentstore,'' said she has moved much of her furniture sales to craigslist. Teslow, of Newport Beach, said a change to the eBay site made it harder for buyers to search geographically, and it ``destroyed'' her sales.
The fee increases announced in January were so steep -- 60 percent in one instance -- that some sellers are questioning whether they can continue to make a living on the site. Many raced to the company's message boards to complain.
``Typically, we have a vocal crowd that gets stirred up,'' said Ina Steiner, editor of the online newsletter AuctionBytes. ``This is not the usual crowd. These are people who usually buckle down and deal with it. These people who are complaining now are saying it's hurting their bottom line.''
In his letter, Cobb said eBay would credit store owners $15.95 -- the monthly fee to operate a basic store -- in May. The company also is lowering the listing fee -- from 30 to 25 cents -- on items that list for 99 cents or less. But that fee was not part of the January rate increases. The company is not rolling back any of those fees.
The reaction among eBay users has been mixed, with most feeling the changes do not go far enough, Steiner said.
``This is making people question whether they want to rely on eBay 100 percent,'' she said.
EBay spokesman Hani Durzy said the company is standing by the fee increases. But he said executives realize that many users are disgruntled.
``It would be disingenuous to say that everything about the community is happy,'' Durzy said. ``We read the boards. We would lose a major source of our direction if we didn't hear the community. We're making changes that we think add value.''
In his letter, Cobb said the company will overhaul its customer-service practices, starting with a shutdown within 90 days of its automated e-mail response system.
`From a human'
``Our users will get a `real' e-mail response to their questions -- you'll hear from a human being who will try to help you with your problem or question right off the bat,'' he wrote. ``We will only use auto responses to acknowledge receipt of spam or policy-violation reports.''
The company also is increasing the number of sellers who will qualify for telephone support, making it available to all store owners, not just the largest-volume ``power sellers.''
``This is a fantastic development,'' Steiner said. ``I have to applaud eBay for recognizing that this is an issue.''
Durzy would not disclose the specific staffing required to make the customer-support changes, how much they would cost, and where any new jobs might be located. He called the financial impact ``not material.''
Nonetheless, analysts said they will be watching closely to gauge whether eBay finds a way to improve its customer service and keep sellers in its fold without eating too much into its bottom line.
The topic is sure to come up when eBay hosts a meeting with Wall Street analysts Thursday.
``Obviously, it remains to be seen how eBay can balance the endpoints,'' Brown said. ``It's interesting they chose to focus on customer service. Can it be solved easily? I don't think so.''
. free eBay user tools
posted on February 8, 2005 08:33:20 PM new
From the "seller central" board on eBay:
Hi from Bill Cobb -- 17,000 Emails Later...
[email protected] (view author's auctions)
02/08/05 05:44 PM
Hi, it's me, Bill. I wanted to stop by to say hello. I've learned a lot about myself in the last few days: 1.) I look like Dick Van Patten. 2.) I have lots of new nicknames, e.g. Mr. Bill. 3.) I've learned more about what's on your mind. We're working hard to address your general comments as well as some of your specific requests.
For those who are wondering -- I've gotten more than 17,000 emails. I want to thank you for your interest and your passion about eBay. While I can't respond personally to 17,000 emails, many of you will be getting a response from a member of my team, with direction from me. And as I promised, I'm seeing them all.
posted on February 11, 2005 08:34:51 AM new
This comment is making the smaller seller happy.....
"It is our
expectation that those who are not properly using the stores format will
close and remain selling on the general site. This will result in a
more efficient stores section for those remaining which will lead to an
anticipated increase in sales through the stores format and may do so
successfully."
**********************************
Two men sit behind bars,one sees mud the other sees stars.
posted on February 11, 2005 08:57:24 AM new
I don't see stores closing have the anticipated effect. I do know there are stores out there that are fishing - Putting in really high prices on items, hoping to hook one in. The problem is that they only cost they are going to see increase really is the monthly fee is $6, and that won't force them to close. If they can make a fortune on selling just a couple of items a month, and pay just a couple of bucks to list them a month, they will keep at it.
"It is better to have none than to have some, but if you must have some, it is better to have few than to have many" - Ronald Reagan
posted on February 11, 2005 09:09:35 AM new
I recommend we all send Mr. Bill a 'Jack-gram'. Let them furriners run one a dem thru der translationdator!
