posted on February 14, 2001 06:22:54 PM new
Hi VeryModern! Love your writing!
That packrat thing cracked me up! Several years ago a friend of mine showed me a book they had purchased. On the leaf of the book was a story about a couple that had purchased an old house in New Hampshire that was part of an estate sale and on going through the contents of the attic found a box all neatly tied up an labeled "String too short to be saved." My friend said they had to buy the book because that reminded them so much of me.
therp
I'll get those brackets right eventually!
[ edited by therpowen on Feb 14, 2001 06:23 PM ]
posted on February 14, 2001 07:42:08 PM new
I can't wait to hear about Shack Man.
I do have a question regarding planets. Since I'm looking at my chart first, what I'm having trouble with interpreting is Sun (illuminating), Pluto (ZAP), and Jupiter (fortune) in the 12th (shadow, karma) house. I'm coming up with unconsious zipzap, or enlightenment. Am I even close?
posted on February 14, 2001 08:30:01 PM new
Hiya Snowy - Shack Man is a great tale, but especially a great astrology tale!
On your 12th house - first thing is that it is supposed to be difficult for you to grasp, nature of the 12th house ...
The thing to do is take it apart and understand the pieces, and then put it together.
In your specific case, start with the Sun Pluto conjunction in Leo because Jupiter is out of sign and further away by degree.
Jupiter is involved, just not so intimately. More involved is Saturn squaring from the 3rd house. These three are within a 5 degree orb. Jupiter @7.57 Virgo is almost is almost 10 degrees from Pluto and completely out of orb of being conjunct your Sun.
So...
assimilate Sun Pluto conjunct in Leo.
Sun in Leo is strong (Leo rules the sun), Pluto is pure power for good or ill.
translated - aka
bright intensity
powerful life force, ego, King/Queen drama
--- you get the picture.
Then add Saturn which via a square acts like a big thumb.
Saturn represses and frustrates on the negative side, or gives great control capabilities on the high side (and acts potentially in both manners - like Pluto who hurts or heals depending...
Anyway, when that gels - add the houses, which is basically the area of life where the energy of the planets play.
The 12th house is a tough one.
It defies definition since no separation from anything in the 12th house and anything here, there, God, or whatever exists. You will have to absorb the meaning.
Is that a double grand trine I see? Or if the tri-angles share a side, does that not count as a double?
If it IS a double grand trine, is there such a thing as playing out the opposite of "grand" in this persons life?
What I mean is, there is nothing grand what-so-ever in how my brother lives his life, let alone double grand.
I don't mean to be mean, it is simply the truth.
[ edited by even59 on Feb 15, 2001 10:32 AM ]
[ edited by even59 on Feb 15, 2001 10:39 AM ]
[ edited by even59 on Feb 15, 2001 10:43 AM ]
[ edited by even59 on Feb 16, 2001 04:17 PM ]
posted on February 15, 2001 10:39:18 AM new
Hi Eve, I can't see the chart so I don't know, but a grand trine does not mean a person lives grandly. It means that they have 3 planets in harmony, easy support of each other. What a person does with a gift like this varies and depends on the individual - just like what another person does with their curse.
According to the book you reccomended for us beginners, I have a "splash" pattern. Before I found out about such a thing. I just thought my chart had a lovely spred-out symmetry. Now I learn that splash means...more or less a potential to not be able to focus on a specific course of action in ones life. Or something like that????
[ edited by even59 on Feb 16, 2001 04:17 PM ]
posted on February 15, 2001 11:09:04 AM new
I would have edited out our identity...but...I don't know how. It took all my limited brain power to get the charts to be visible in the first place.
eve n
posted on February 15, 2001 11:09:48 AM new
In general that is true Eve, the point being that your energy is spread here and there and everywhere, but in your specific case, your Sun and Moon are in the same house, in the same sign and with the same aspects - so you would in fact have a strong focus in one area.
posted on February 15, 2001 11:14:51 AM new
So, is that a double grand trine for ol' Paul?
As for me, perhaps it is a case of "so obvious that I can't see it" purpose to my life. Only explantion I can think of for having never found a passion in my life. Then again, I'm not dead yet!
posted on February 15, 2001 11:29:10 AM new
yeah, I guess you could say that Eve.
Technically there are two of them there, but I would be inclined to consider them the same grand trine with one point of if being a Venus Saturn conjunction.
Just in case anyone is curious, the third thing between Venus and Saturn is the N node of the Moon.
Some software programs would have also drawn a line to the node also - and so "triple" grand trine, but I don't really think so.
posted on February 16, 2001 06:39:27 AM new
Hi VM,
I've been reading a paperback called "Void Moon" by Michael Connelly. It's not an astrology book. It's a crime thriller. The title references a recurring theme in the novel, i.e. bad things happen during a void moon.
The author explains the phenomenon as a period when the moon is passing from one sign to another and goes through a short phase where it is between signs and therefore "void". The author doesn't indicate that the void period is sign specific. He seems to say that any void is bad for everyone.
Well, I'd never heard the term before and naturally thought to ask our resident astrological expert for more info. Is "void" the same as a "cusp"? Does it really signify negative portent? What happens if a person is born during one of these events? Is it a valid astrological term or it merely a literary device?
It's a good book, BTW. I've alway's enjoyed the writer and this is his latest in paperback.
posted on February 16, 2001 09:14:55 AM new
Hi xardon - yes the Void of Course Moon is significant astrologically particularly in event charts. The Moon is considered void from the time it forms it's last aspect to one of the planets until it changes signs. The Moon changes signs every 2 1/2 days and so is void for a minute, and hour, hours or a day depending every 2 1/2 days.
I know many astrologers who track it religiously but I am not one of them and so I cannot comment with personal experience, but it is critical to horary / mundane astrologers who by and large are the best of the best of astrologers and I have enough respect for them that if I were embarking on something big, I would not start it when the Moon was void
There is a myth out there that astrologers are a bunch of buffoons who are easily hoodwinked, but in reality it a highly intelligent group who pick things apart with a fine tooth comb. Many of the advanced of our breed forgo PEOPLE who are sloppy and move on to timing of events. The comparison would be *real* science as opposed to pseudo-science / psychology. Anyway, these nitpickers of the nit picky have found the void moon to be a negative indicator and they have reams of evidence gathered over centuries of study and so I tend to take them at their word, it is just not my area of interest.
As for applying in everyday life, I don't use astrology that way.
This is explains my personal lack of interest....
Suppose I use horary to avoid standing in line at Motor Vehicle and I succeed.
Fine, but what about the bit I picked up from the conversation with the person I stood next to in line when I showed up with my imperfect timing? To me, the 2nd experience is preferable, but to others.. proving they can avoid the line is the thrill. IOW - I want the people, and they do not, and I would rather be out inclement weather to see what happens
In real life terms, some things people start wind up better than others, and so astrologers who study this have found that it is not advisable to launch with the Moon void. This is the kind of thing that the Reagan astrologer did btw. She specified when timing was favorable. They hung her from a high tree in the end, but she actually did a good job for her client, and based on Bush's inauguration chart, he is not using an astrologer which is too bad, so sad, because the consequences are so enormous.
btw on another note, I hear that Regis showed the comparison chart of himself and the new co-host on the program today and spoke favorably of astrology.
posted on February 16, 2001 09:46:14 AM new
Hi, VM,
Here is someting that really confuses me.
If so many of us on this planet share all those same generational planets EXACTLY, is what makes us different the planets from Jupiter on up? I mean, allll of us born in 1959 share the same planet positions of Jupiter, Saturn, Uranaus, Neptune, and Pluto. So are those to be more or less ignored, or how similar are we? UHHH, am having trouble with my wording...must drink more cofffeeee...
My friend Vikki has WAAAY to many red squares in her chart, then again, I bet you it has made her a stronger (perhaps invincible) person.
posted on February 16, 2001 10:49:41 AM new
Hi Eve, yes the outer planets are generational and people born in the same generation share qualities.
Values and priorities morph, evolve from one generation to another and this is reflected by the outer planets changing signs.
In a natal chart, the outer planets are made personal by the house they fall in and by the aspects they form to personal planets.
Ex.
Pluto is Leo descries an energy that is generational.
Pluto in Leo conjunct Venus describes another.
Pluto in the Leo square the Moon in Taurus describes another
Pluto in the Leo square the Moon in Taurus in the 6th house, not the 8th house is yet another, another, another.
Bottom line - people share a tone but how it plays is still highly individualistic.
posted on February 16, 2001 11:18:21 AM new
put it up if you want Eve, but I prefer to look at charts on my own software since it is familiar to me and easier on the eye.
posted on February 16, 2001 11:58:10 AM new
Thaks VM and Hi Eve!
I was sure you'd know. I was pretty sure you'd wander all over the place with your answer, too. I'm still wondering if a person born during a void moon is truly and irrevocably doomed, though.....and, also, does anyone notable qualify for this singular peculiarity?
posted on February 16, 2001 01:27:27 PM new
Hi xardon - no, I don't think that a person born with the Moon void of course is doomed! For starters, I don't even know how to define "doomed person".
Doomed to what? Doomed in what way? If you are a Virgo, does this mean than you are "doomed" to service? An Aquarian may think so but a Virgo may be served by serving.
Poor me, I am doomed to be interested in astrology, lol! I am doomed to be mocked! Who cares?
Really - I am afraid I don't know much about a void moon in a natal chart. I do not use. The quick and dirty interp. from others who do is that it gives poor timing and a tendency to trust the wrong people. I do not even consider it when looking at a natal chart and one reason is this idea that the person is compromised and there is not possible payoff does not sit well with me because it does not jibe with my understanding of life (or astrology).
First, via astrology I can get the same info (the trust and timing bit) via the planets and their aspects which provide option for both high and otherwise expression by an individual.
This *does* jibe with my understanding of life, which says that every gift is a curse and vice versa.
I rarely hear anyone mention a void moon when considering a natal and when I do (and they consider it broken) they always seem to be talking about their ex-husband... know what I mean? IOW, I have never heard or read anything compelling.
What I think may have happened here is that some astrologers have borrowed concepts from mundane astrology and applied them to natal astrology where they do not translate. Be nice if it were that simple though.
The other thing, is that a Void Moon is not "rare". The moon is void roughly 10% of the time, and so 10% of us may be horrible, but which 10% depends on who is doing the judging.
posted on February 16, 2001 01:53:31 PM new
I did get the info Eve, but I am just not comfortable working with them.
I am happier to work with a person's chart at their own request, and when I put them up, my gut just said "no" and so I listened.
posted on February 16, 2001 01:54:33 PM new
Well, I'm off to hike my dogs before it gets too late.
I'll check to see what you have for me on "P" when I return.
Thanks!
posted on February 19, 2001 12:10:37 PM new
Hi VeryModern!
This thread seems to be neglected, so in the interest of keeping it current, I'll volunteer to ask a stupid question.
In a Synastry chart, is there any particular significance to the formations I'll call, for ignorance of what or even if they should be called, a kite and bowtie type formations?
I've included a very crude drawing to show what I mean.
therp
ps: I do realize that there is way too little information here for you to offer any meaning for them, just wondering if they do mean anything.
posted on February 19, 2001 12:46:07 PM new
Hi therp - first thing is I don't know what you mean by "synastry chart"? Do you mean a composite? Are you merging two charts?
On the the "kite" and that is what it is called - it acts like a "not lazy" grand trine.
You need another line in there to make the triangle (grand trine) and then the other point is formed by two sextiles.
On the other, the "bow-tie" it is actually the better part of a "Grand Cross", You are missing the 2 lines to form the box with an X inside.
A grand cross is akin to a chain reaction. One bell goes off causing this one to go off, causing the other one to blink and then the siren goes off, etc. You get the picture.
It is busy in whatever case. Sometimes it is like a beautifully choreographed and grand ballet - other times pure chaos. I doubt that it would be considered by many to be positive in a composite,. but my husband and I have one in our composite chart and we like it.
I wrote in the other thread, it causes other people a bit of grief to have us in the same "frame" but if we are 2 deer in headlights, we are glad to be caught. For us, it is like standing in the middle unfazed while everyone else freaks
posted on February 19, 2001 12:49:58 PM new
Hi VM!
I am very ignorant of almost everything in Astrology, as you can tell. I called it a synastry chart because that's what it was called on the Astrodienst site, and yes it is a composite of two people.
The other lines you mention are not drawn in on the chart that was shown - would that also be significant?
posted on February 19, 2001 12:53:48 PM new
ps: Please take your "Carpal Tunnel" break before answering! I do not want to bear the responsiblity of reducing your output due to causing overuse of your very talented fingers!
posted on February 20, 2001 04:19:37 PM new
Hi VM! I was worried you left us forever and ever! I see that you posted today, despite closing the other thread last night. Yay!
BTW, VM, I feel your pain...some people...ugh, nevermind, you know what I mean.
posted on February 21, 2001 02:58:42 PM newVeryModern: I just want to say something about Astrology in general. I know there are some skeptics here. But I recently obtained 20 page Astrological Profiles for me, my husband, and both children (who are adults now). All I can say is that it was so "right on the money" that it gave us all chills. And for those who say that all profiles can fit anyone, boulderdash! My son's was totally different than my daughter's, whose was totally different than mine, etc. There was nothing in my profile that even remotely resembled anyone else in my family. My husband, who is a major skeptic, and who has been dragged kicking and screaming into the world of "that which cannot be explained", was just flabbergasted when he read his profile. My son's was so accurate it brought me to tears. I'm talking tiny details about him. My husband was speechless. So I just want you to know that I know in my heart that there is something more to the stars than just twinkly lights. Let the scoffers scoff. I know what I know.
