posted on March 23, 2001 09:21:48 PM new
Twinsoft,
I'll admit to a little bit of surprise when you posted so knowledgeably about TV wrestling in:
"Regarding wrestling, the WCW and WWF go out of their way to make the fights seem realistic. I remember when they first introduced baseball bats. Skulls being cracked, arms broken. And even though the fights are staged, many real injuries do occur. The wrestlers are all pumped up on steroids",
but you resolved my mild astonishment when you went on to say:
"Take a look in your local toy store and you will see from the merchandising that wrestling shows are geared towards 7-8 year olds".
posted on March 23, 2001 11:16:57 PM newHelen, I understand what you are saying. To try to decide if this kid should be tried as either a juveniel or an adult comes from the thinking that we are trying to punish people for what they do. So much of this, and punish as a kid; so much of that -- try them as an adult. It's a stupid, ilogical, and sick approach to solving society's problems. no amount of punishment will bring back that girl, erase her suffering if it could. No, PUNISHMENT is a retared concept that needs to be thrown away entirely.
Instead, I believe that the ONLY question that should ever be asked in any criminal case is: is it safe to let them back out on the street again and will this person re-offend? If the answer is that they are dangerous, then incarceration is the only humane answer that we have. If the person will re-offend, then do not let them raom our streets at will -- PROTECT US from THEM. It doesn't matter, in my mind, what the age or sex of the perpetrator is.
posted on March 24, 2001 01:42:50 AM new
It seems that the mother threw the dice and lost everything. I really don't know what mother would think that a jury would find this behavior to be acceptable. She should of taken the 3 year plea and could have reclaimed her son. Hopefully, inside of this 3 years, he would of have received the needed attention to control his behavior, temper, and attitude towards other people.
When I was growing up, my mother, (very straight foward and old fashioned) would alway say to my siblings and me, "if you kids ever get arrested and thrown into jail, you can sit there and think about it, because I'm not bailing any of you out". There were many times during my teenage years and young adulthood, that I came into situations where I could have crossed the line of the law. However, I always remember that little remark drilled into my memory, "if you kids ever get arrested and thrown into jail, you can sit there and think about it, because I'm not bailing any of you out".
Now, I'm 43, and the only involvement with the police was 3 traffic tickets. I've never been arrested, charged or found guilty of any crime.
About a year ago here in Michigan, 3 young men, ages 18, 19, and 21 were sentenced to prison for using a date rape drug on a young girl. They drugged her and over dosed her. She convulsed and vomited was comatose and finally died. They did nothing for her including caling EMS, until after they rented a carpet cleaner to clean up her mess. In their court trial, they claimed they didn't know what they were doing. They were given 15-25 years prison terms. I was discussing this with a person that owns a local resturant. The owner, who's a woman, and is about 43 years old said in reference to their prison terms, "that's too bad. They knew what they were doing." and walked away.
People are simply sick and tired of young offenders becoming the norm in society. Punishment and laws dealing with minors were originally written when minors were noted for breaking windows and petty theft. Today, this type of crime doesn't even make the paper.
I do aggree that a 14 year old should known what he was doing. You must ask yourself, when I was 14 could I tell if I was hurting someone? When I was 10, could I tell if I was hurting someone? The answer lies there.
posted on March 24, 2001 04:02:41 AM new
This kid suffered from two handicaps right from the beginning: a stupid mother, and the fact that he's black and living in Florida.
Add to that his slower mental development, and he never stood a chance - the system would have gotten him eventually.
I agree he needs to be put somewhere so that he can't hurt someone again, but I feel sad for everyone involved except his mother.
I agree that it should be determined if this boy is dangerous.
Based on his non violent past and other considerations, it is
my opinion that he did not intend to kill this child but I understand that his
violence in this case is unusual.
So, I think that it would be appropriate to send him to a juvenile
facility where his problems could be observed over a period of time
and possibly corrected.
But sending a 12 year old child to an adult facility is just
unacceptable in my opinion.
Julsey and Hepburn
I see that I misspelled embarassment in my previous post. I'll have to
be more careful about this in the future. I have some problem typing
and it's usually a typing problem. I don't understand the direction of
your other remarks. If you have any questions that you would like to ask
me, feel free to ask me directly.
I do agree with you that a 14 year old should not be imprisoned with adults. He is still a child...
Beyond that, I do not know what to think. It is a frightening case to me. And I have to think that the adults in these children's lives have failed them miserably.
**Disclaimer: If I appear arguementive, then I probably am just being a #*!@ today. It comes & goes. C.
posted on March 24, 2001 08:31:41 AM new
Helen, if you would not be so paranoid, you will see why I posted what I did...I didnt know how to spell Psychic and still dont. It had nothing to do with you. And if I do have a question for you, you can be very assured I will address you.
Sadie, the kid being black had NOTHING to do with his being found guilty. The child he killed was black also. I dont know why the race card is always brought up.
Attorney Johnnie Cochran was expected to arrive in Broward County late Friday and is scheduled to meet with Tate, 14, at the Okeechobee Juvenile Offenders Correction Center where he has begun serving a life sentence
About the race factor. I believe that race
is a factor in this case. Racism is alive and
flourishing in Florida. Just look at how
blacks were not allowed to vote in the
Florida presidential election.
The fact that his playmate was black also
would have no relevance. Of course, if
the playmate had been white, he would
probably be on death row.
And another issue in this case, in my opinion, was the
pressure to convict a child because of
the number of school shootings in which
children were involved...so this kid was
a scapegoat.
I don't want to leave the impression that I don't have sympathy
for the death of the other child and her
mother. I certainly do! I just don't think
that this tragedy should be turned into a case of blind retribution.
posted on March 24, 2001 11:12:44 AM new
"Racism is alive and
flourishing in Florida. Just look at how
blacks were not allowed to vote in the
Florida presidential election."
Honest and truly, HJW, where do you GET this stuff? I'd really like to know.
"But the stories coming out of the state over the last month are haunting. African Americans purged from voter lists. Old Votomatic machines jammed with chads in predominantly black precincts.Police roadblocks in African American communities on
election day".
posted on March 24, 2001 11:49:59 AM new
Helen. Alert is good. Honestly, I wasnt refering to you at all, and Im sorry you may have thought that from my "playing" with Julesy. I was slamming myself (tongue in cheek and aimed only at me), lol.
Yes, I must agree that if that child was white, then the kid WOULD be on death row, probably.
posted on March 24, 2001 12:00:14 PM new
That's a link to an editorial and has no bearing on the blanket statement:
"Just look at how
blacks were not allowed to vote in the
Florida presidential election."
It may well be that investigation will prove voting irregularities. At this point, it's merely opinion. Facts are needed before a statement like the one above is credible.
posted on March 24, 2001 12:05:21 PM new
Bull. It was on TV, Toke. How much more factual do you need in New England? You could have watched the roadblocks if you'd get over thinking that if it's past eight it's getting late and going off to sleep.
If you think that there's no racism in Florida, go there. You'll feel it.
posted on March 24, 2001 01:06:21 PM new
Ah, but HJW...that's not what you said. You said nothing about voter discrimination...racism...or anything of the sort. If that's what you meant, then that's what you should say. You said:
""Just look at how
blacks were not allowed to vote in the
Florida presidential election."
Not at all the same thing. Why not just refine your statement, then?
I will readily agree that there is racism everywhere. I've lived in the Northwest, Northeast, West, even (!)California. I've seen no place free of it.
posted on March 24, 2001 01:30:11 PM new
That is being pretty pedantic, toke. It was clear that there were SOME people who were denied the vote in Florida, and it was because they were black. How does Helen's statement need re-wording?
It was reported in the press in the UK too - the road-blocks, the purging of voter lists due to supposed felony conviction, the voting cards that never turned up.
posted on March 24, 2001 01:47:40 PM new
Mivona...
As I said, in my experience racism is everywhere. I certainly hope it does not extend to voter fraud in Florida. If it's proven to be the case, that will be a sad day indeed. It's certainly a possibility, but I have some hope that things aren't truly that bad.
As it stands, all we know are the charges made, and various opinions of the validity of those charges. Remember, for every charge made, there is a refutation. It saddens me that we're always so ready to believe the worst.
I said, "Racism is alive and
flourishing in Florida. Just look at how
blacks were not allowed to vote in the
Florida presidential election."
I am not revising a word of it.
Did you hear about the group of black people
who were stoped by Florida police at a roadblock so that they could not get to the polls in time to vote?
Did you hear about the black voters who
were prevented from voting because according
to Florida records, they were felons. It
was later ... too late...discovered that
they were not felons.
Did you hear about the black voters who
could not vote because when they arrived
to vote they did not have a drivers license
with them. I have never been asked for a
drivers license in order to vote.
There wasn't any other way I could interpret the reports. It didn't seem "accidental", it appeared to be targetted at black voters in Florida. I don't see how it can be seen in any other light.
I can understand how people would wish it wasn't so, that find it hard to believe (in their experience) that such overt discrimination could still exist, but I think sometimes you have to see it for what it is, and call it for what it is.
posted on March 24, 2001 02:11:00 PM new
Mivona...
At this point, it isn't anything but charges...fueled by politics. As I'm sure you're aware, it's the charges that make the news. That doesn't make them not true, but conversely it certainly doesn't validate them.
I think we'll just have to wait and see. And in my case at least, hope it's just more bitter political maneuvering. There seems enough of that, on both sides, to last us until the year 3000.
posted on March 24, 2001 02:19:43 PM new
Oops...sorry HJW, I missed your post. Sure, I heard about all those charges...and I also heard plausible denials and rationales.
All we have are charges and countercharges here. And politics, of course...
I don't know what to believe, at this point. I know both political parties and partisans will lie to serve their agendas. I'll just wait for facts. Maybe in vain.
posted on March 24, 2001 03:26:56 PM new
Hey Jules!...
Every day is fine since I actually upgraded my puter memory...by myself! Can you believe I did that??? If I could only do it for my body...
Dunno if you've been watching the Outlook...but it's so slow to eBay for me, I don't dare to try and list. Hope all is well with you, you disgusting academic...
This topic is 7 pages long: 1new2new3new4new5new6new7new
I'm not paranoid, just alert.
. Alert is good. Honestly, I wasnt refering to you at all, and Im sorry you may have thought that from my "playing" with Julesy. I was slamming myself (tongue in cheek and aimed only at me), lol.
