posted on June 4, 2001 04:01:12 PM new
Helen,
What you said, made me feel a little better personally here......
(My 19 year old daughter; gave her keys to a car, insured it, liabilty only under my policy, got in a car wreck the VERY NEXT DAY, yesterday, and I've been blaming and kicking myself all day today)
I do think its my fault, and I am going back and forth on taking the blame here.
So I dunno, 'cept damn kids, your never stop being a parent, no matter if they are of legal age.
posted on June 4, 2001 04:01:56 PM new
A landslide? As long as the democratic party brings mutts like Mondale and Dukakis it might better be termed a cakewalk.
posted on June 4, 2001 04:03:38 PM newBorillarJames, in 1984, the Religious Right had settled in on the Republican Party. Ronald Reagan took the South, which is the home of the Religious Right. Without the South, Ronald Reagan's chances for re-election might have been iffy.
Oh yeah, if Mondale had got the south in 1984 it would have been a real squeaker. Blue = Regan, Red = Mondale.
no, this is my youngest I bought her a '94 Cavilier.
I bought it for her, because when my oldest got her licence at 16, she was given a car.
The youngest got her license at 18. So I went and did this, and good running car, I put her on my policy on Sat. and I went out of town yesterday, and this morning was greeted with screeching crying blabbering kid telling me she rear ended a 2001 Town and Country whatever. The lady wants to 'settle this without insurance' she wants me to write her a check... NO WAY thats not what I pay for insurance for. As for the kid? she's in deep sh*t, and knows it, and already has been blasted by me, her uncle screaming over a speakerphone...... and....
I wanna run away from home again.....
Do you think my children could track me down if I changed my name and moved to the outer banks of North Carolina or somewhere like that, or do I need to leave the country?
posted on June 4, 2001 04:37:55 PM new
I could have myself hypnotized
LOL
anyway the only good, if any, may have been that Ferraro, was running with Mondale.
It most likely brought out more women voters than ever before..... then who knows, maybe it hurt the campaign. I don't remember the commentaries from back then, but I do remember Geraldine Ferraro.
posted on June 4, 2001 05:24:16 PM newJames...For 3 years now, the old-timers here, have known me as French-born (can't you tell by my bad spelling ? )
And what does the nazi collaborators have to do with tea in china????? I never said nor even remotely implied that France was without blemish; only that I, ME, MYSELF, was brought up differently.
I am very saddened by the fact that France was horribly guilty of supplying African Slaves to Holland and the USA! Not proud of it at all...
But, we were discussing the behaviour of young people IN AMERICA, since I do not live anywhere else.
******** Gosh Shosh!
posted on June 4, 2001 05:44:21 PM new
donny et al,
I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think that most of us really believe that Bush should make a public example of his daughters' behavior nor that he would gain any validity from doing so. Neither is their behavior aberrant from that of many others their age. However, it does serve as an excellent illustration of the crassness with which I believe certain politicians are using the family values issue to manipulate support for candidates and programs.
As exemplified by some of the personal examples cited above, it is unreasonable to always hold children's behavior as directly attributable to neglect or malfeasance on the part of their parents. It has always been true that excellent parenting does not necessarily result in responsible behavior on the part of children and conversely it is not uncommon to see responsible and sometimes even exemplary behavior on the part of children whose parents are neglectful and irresponsible. Add to this fact the conditions of the present through which children have relatively easy access to a degree that has never existed before to information, materials and substances which may be harmful to them, as well as the fact that parents are bombarded with theories and methods of proper upbringing and the difficulties of families today begins to emerge in a realistic light. And it is different from the past.
Add to this mix the difficulties presented by an increasing number of one parent families, etc. The specific problems are far too numerous to list, but my chief question is, what is the government going to do to solve those problems? Everyone talks about them and I think that the majority of parents are conscientious. Some people probably simply shouldn't be parents, and others are not good parents, but how can the government determine who will be a good parent and how can it become involved beyond what is currently be done through social agencies?
I don't see how simply a small middle class tax cut and turning over social service agencies to religious institutions is a viable solution to the problems. If the Bush administration has some long-term concrete plans for addressing the social problems that face families today, then I would certainly be interested in knowing what they are. Otherwise I am left with the impression that compassionate conservatism is simply another crass political manuever.
If Bush doesn't intend to seriously address these problems then by God he can quit the generalizing and moralizing about the problem with family values in this country.
posted on June 4, 2001 08:10:36 PM new
Antiquary, I agree with you. Bush et al's family values platform is trash, simplistic hypocritical yammerings, a crass political maneuvering. I don't believe in it, it's junk.
So why turn it around and use it on Bush's daughters? Krs says payback is fun. That's true, but the problem is, you have to use the same currency.
posted on June 4, 2001 08:26:02 PM new
"The way some people in this thread seem to see it is that not only are the sins of the parents visited on the sons, but then the sins of the sons (or daughters) are visited back on the parents."
No but I do believe that children learn right and wrong from their parents. So, let's see - Daddy was an alcoholic, got DUI's and is the President of the United States - so why not drink - it may take you to 'high' places.
What I truly believe is once is excusable - college age etc. But twice within two weeks and you are in the public eye and know it. That shows the intelligence apple also did not fall far from the tree. No wonder Bush senior has not commented. What could he say -Gee, they should never drink or drink and drive or ..... Then we could call him a lyer and where would that get him.
posted on June 4, 2001 08:37:56 PM newThat's true, but the problem is, you have to use the same currency.
Because the government prints the currency and Bushis the government. If the bills in use depict a two-face monogram and are therefore counterfeit, then they should be returned to the issuer.
But again, donny, this is not about his daughters' privacy since the incident has already been widely reported. But the question remains in the public mind of whether or not he is sincere in advocating his family values platform. Do you think that that is a question that the public should set aside?
[ edited by antiquary on Jun 4, 2001 08:40 PM ]
posted on June 4, 2001 08:44:54 PM new"No but I do believe that children learn right and wrong from their parents. So, let's see - Daddy was an alcoholic, got DUI's and is the President of the United States - so why not drink - it may take you to 'high' places"
This assumes that the daughters were exposed to his drinking, DUI's, and all, but his own stated reasons for the failure to disclose information about those facets of his past, including the mechanisms whereby he was able to obtain an entirely new driving record in the state of Texas, were that he wished to protect his daughters. Also, by his claim, he stopped drinking at the time of their birth and if true then they have to be acting entirely on their own without learned behavior by parental example. Unless he would now claim a genetic factor in his daughter's drinking characteristics, he has to allow that the possibility that he did not stop drinking as claimed exists.
No pretensions to academia are needed to see that there are many questions of personal character in this resident raised by these arrests of his daughters.
When, by the way, did it become normal behavior to exhibit drinking patterns which would bring any clinician to conclude that there is a serious alcohol problem here? Repeated problems in managing life because of alcohol and lying to obtain alcohol are first level warning signals in any treatment avenue in the country.
posted on June 4, 2001 09:35:12 PM new
I do think it's about his daughters' privacy, Antiquary, regardless that what they've done has been reported.
What his daughters do, they do. Those are their actions, they're responsible. It's their business, a matter of concern to them and their parents who, presumably, want them to grow up to be happy, successful, responsible adults.
This is not a political occurrence, it's a private family matter.
Krs says:
"No pretensions to academia are needed to see that there are many questions of personal character in this (p)resident raised by these arrests of his daughters."
And I disagree. The personal character of this president is evidenced by his own actions. One could find enough to hang him with without having to ascribe to him actions of his grown children.
Who can control a 19 year old going to college in another city? Everytime my 18 year old daughter leaves the house, I tell her she's wearing too much perfume. She clucks at me and leaves. I keep saying it, she keeps clucking at me and leaving. She's a good girl, and a good daughter. We've been having this same exchange for years. What can you do? No doubt when she moves out to the dorm this fall, she'll be bathing in the stuff.
And what will people say about me then? Will they catch a whiff of her from half a block away and think her mother didn't try to teach her that less is more? Will they think that I'm responsible because she had to have learned by my example and that I must stink like a whorehouse too?
Judge Bush on what he does. Judge his daughters on what they do.
Great post, donny! Though we don't quite see this situation involving the daughters in the same perspective, we do agree on the broader issue of the family values propaganda. Oh, and my son did that with aftershave/cologne for a while, so I'm empathetic but there is hope.
posted on June 4, 2001 11:29:15 PM new
I sure hope your encouraging words are right, Antiquary! On the up side, maybe I won't miss her so much when she leaves for college because I'll still be able to smell her long after she's gone. Sigh
posted on June 4, 2001 11:49:56 PM new
After reading these posts, I believe that having no character (the Clinton's) is in, while having some character (the Bush's) is out...my, my, and so many of us wonder what is wrong with our society today... Slick Willy taught our children that it is okay to lie, (now don't chastise your children when they do, after all, you chose this role model) and he taught your children that adultery is acceptable (just keep denying it, screw the respectable family concept ) Hillary taught our daughters to stand by your man (as long as you keep your position honey) and then run for office and tell hubby to step aside....
So this is the new America??
Well what ever happened to character, integrity, honesty?? Sounds like they've become worthless "vintage articles" not even worth placing on auction.....
Well, not in my lifetime, and I thank God my family still holds dear what is REALLY IMPORTANT!!!
posted on June 5, 2001 12:19:09 PM new
Did anyone else see the newsclip of Barbara Bush on this topic? I just caught a minute or two of it. She was talking about George and said something like she couldn't hardly believe he was president and all since this was the kid who wouldn't make his bed (paraphasing here as my memory is not good). I hope someone else saw it and can remember exactly what she said.
Amazing what money and family name will do, eh Dubbya?
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