posted on August 30, 2000 07:11:10 PM new
I recently allowed my son to bid on some game cartridges with his allowance money(under my close supervision, of course) and he won one for around $3.00. I received the EOA e-mail promptly from the seller advising the priority shipping (no mention of handling) would be $4.20 with an optional $2 for insurance and $1 for package tracking.
Now, I don't know about the rest of you, but there's just something that rubs me the wrong way when a seller is charging $7.20 to ship a $3.00 item that should cost no more than $4.40 with all the extras. I tried to justify these charges from this Hawaiian seller thinking his shipping costs were higher, but I calculated it on the USPS web page and there's no difference from Hawaii. I questioned my son about the weight of this item and he's sure it can't be more than 2 lbs.
I wrote a very polite e-mail to the seller asking if he might be willing to work with us a little on the shipping charges. I explained that I initially assumed the item was in the 2-3 lb. range and didn't pick up on the fact that that would make it $4.30, not $4.20 as his page states (absolutly my fault). I even apologized if I was incorrect about the weight of the item and that certainly if it was more than 2 pounds I would not even be asking and to just let me know and I'd paypal him immediately.
For me, it's not a matter of the additional $ out of my pocket, it's the principal of the thing. He's charging $2.80 to stick a game in an envelope (a free envelope I might add!) If he's going to charge a handling fee (even on his insurance and tracking??), his TOS should clearly state Shipping AND HANLDING. And, because his items are geared toward young teens, I think it's even more important that he be extremely clear about these charges - or maybe that's why he's not???
I didn't hear back from him so I sent another polite e-mail; didn't hear again and sent another. I've sent a total of 6 e-mails to date and have yet to hear one word from this seller. My last e-mail said that I would just like some form of reply, even if it's just that your shipping costs stand as stated.
posted on August 30, 2000 07:17:47 PM new
Oh my --a hard lesson learned. When Shipping and Handling are not stated in the auction--the serious buyer should email and nail down these charges before the auction is over.
6 emails and no response? Me--I'd walk away from this transaction with not ever looking back.
posted on August 30, 2000 08:38:27 PM new
Perhaps you should not allow your children to bid if you are going to review the bids and decide not to honor them. You will find that soon you will not be able to place bids yourself as sellers hear every lame excuse in the book why someone does not wish to complete a sale.
I just bought stereo headphones at uBid.com for $8.00 and the shipping was slightly more than $8.00. I am sure you would never question those charges from a REAL business though. You think an individual should give you a better deal than a real company. It is terrible that that seller did not want to engage in a spirited debate over the $2.80 cents you are worried about. If he has to
spend a half hour arguing with you over $2.80 then he is making a whoping $5.60 an hour right? Perhaps it is NOT the priciple of the thing for him like it is for you. Perhaps he is trying to make a living.
posted on August 30, 2000 08:51:47 PM new
A couple of questions--
(1) Were the shipping charges clearly stated in the auction listing?
(2) Is the game still a good deal at $10.20? Or the $7.20 it will cost you if you forgo insurance/tracking?
If the answer to either/both of these questions is yes, let it go.
I don't let my son bid on anything. If he wants something on eBay, I let him do the search, we go over each listing together (with me explaining what to look for/watch out for with each one) and I do the bidding.
This serves several purposes: it keeps my butt out of trouble with eBay; I know all the terms of an auction in which a bid is made in MY name; and my son learns to be a sharper consumer.
Kids generally want items in categories that can be rife with these kinds of shipping charges -- as well as deceptive ads and fake items.
I'm not at all saying that ALL sellers in these categories are bad. There are MANY good, decent sellers of items that appeal to kids. You just have to watch out for the few who are not.
posted on August 30, 2000 08:54:09 PM new
I wonder if the seller gets a lot of repeat buyers with those terms!
While I think every seller has the right to charge whatever they want, I personally would have a hard time with those charges too.
But I would honor my bid, and make a note to purchase from him/her only if the item couldn't be found anywhere else and I had to have it.
I also think he/she is rude to not answer your emails, (if some time has elapsed, you are not very specific) but I try to conduct myself in a professional polite manner all the time and would not resort to rudeness also, as often is the case in these scenerios.
Turning e mail on, shipping threads are so much fun to read!
posted on August 30, 2000 09:20:50 PM new
This seller is not gouging anyone. If he charged $20 for shipping and sent it by the slowest possible means, it still wouldn't be gouging as long as the terms were clearly stated in the auction listing. Not smart on the seller's part, but certainly not gouging.
The seller clearly stated the terms of the sale. You read those terms. You agreed to those terms (by bidding). You have nothing to complain about.
If you're lucky you won't get negged by the seller for trying to negotiate terms after the auction ended. If you're going to negotiate, do so before placing a bid. Anything else is clearly dishonest.
Edited to add:
And no, I would never buy from this seller. I wouldn't agree to his terms, hence I wouldn't bid.
[ edited by abingdoncomputers on Aug 30, 2000 09:22 PM ]
posted on August 30, 2000 09:42:34 PM new
Has anybody noticed that on TV, all mail-order items have risen from $6.95 to $7.95 per item -- usually with no S&H discounts for multiple items?
Everytime I order off of the Internet, I get charged that amount and it often arrives First Class mail. How come??
When I order from my suppliers, I get charged for S&H BOTH. And it is a $5.00 minimum charge per order now changed to $6.50 for this Fall or %10 of the purchase price, which ever is greater -- how rude!
I can't think of too many places that I buy from that won't charge me $6.95 for S&H. Heck, even my local grocer adds the cost of S&H into his prices. Go figure!
But an eBay Seller? >>GASP!<< Oh my!
eBay Sellers, who incur the same costs, are simply supposed to swallow it and charge ONLY POSTAGE!
I have something in my EOAB that I send out that might interest you. I offer that anyone who wishes to save the S&H fee can mail me thier own packaging and postage! I haven't had any takers yet, nor do I have any complaints on my S&H fees yet. I wonder why that is??
posted on August 30, 2000 09:59:53 PM newsharenv, If you've sent six emails and haven't received an answer, IMO this doesn't bode well for the transaction. I'd be wondering if he even plans to mail your item and I wouldn't send any money to him until he emailed me.
borillar, The internet sellers I do business with are primarily Barnes & Noble, Eddie Bauer, Crate & Barrel and the like. I do pay more that actual postage costs BUT if I order something I don't want, they will take it back, no questions asked, even months later. They will immediately credit my credit card and some of them will even refund shipping and those that don't, will let me order something else and credit the original shipping to my current purchase. When ebay sellers start offering this kind of service, I won't complain about their shipping costs either.
posted on August 30, 2000 10:02:36 PM new
Adding the costs into the price of the item is one thing, padding the shipping amount is quite another particularly if the seller is dutifully reporting his or her income from sales. Shipping amounts not reported as income and padding them not only gouges the buyer but gouges the IRS and breaks the law.
Aside all of that, how can $2.00 for insurance be justified on a $3.00 item when USPS insurance is $.85 up to fifty dollars, and how can a dollar fee for confirmation be justified when the USPS charge is thirty five cents? The seller does nothing per hour to obtain those.
posted on August 30, 2000 10:06:33 PM new
Perhaps the seller who may in fact be trying to make a living is part of what I can the NEW BREED on ebay that is making their money off of what they charge for shipping.
Chances are he will turn in a non bidder alert and later file for a credit.
There is no doubt that he is overcharging you. To track a priority mail item through the USPS is .35 not $1.00.
If this guy is in fact making his living on ebay wouldn't it be nice if he made it off of his product and not off of the postage.
posted on August 30, 2000 10:17:18 PM newlondon4...Yes, this is the Internet...and some sellers do take certain liberties. One should always check AHEAD OF TIME...if no answer, then move on...BUT: This is STILL an auction site. I have attended live auction for my antiques business since 1972, and have never been offered to return the merchandise I bought at those auctions... You say:
When ebay sellers start offering this kind of service, I won't complain about their shipping costs either
Remember: AUCTION, not DEPARTMENT STORE....And krs is totally correct: how can a 3.00 item cost 2.00 to insure?
posted on August 31, 2000 01:55:37 AM new
I just got a whole new prespective on shipping charges. The US Open Tennis web site wanted US$ 40.00 to ship a small item. No way.
But it sure makes eBay shipping charges seem soooooooo low.
posted on August 31, 2000 06:40:13 AM new
I did a little test a few weeks ago.
I hunted till I found an auction with no TOS stated. (On an item I liked, since I knew I would bid. )
I emailed the seller before ending and pinned him down on the shipping charges.
(Not too bad in his email, $5 shipping, handling and insurance, so he made 95 cents on handling. )
Then, using a friend's ID, I bid and won the auction. I waited for his EOA e mail, and
surprise the shipping, handling and insurance was $7.50.
See he did not know I contacted him before the end of auction on another ID.
So I completed the transaction.
So some sellers are vague in their listings, if contacted before might be reasonable with the shipping, if not contacted might be higher.
posted on August 31, 2000 07:00:44 AM new
I recently purchased a small silver fork on ebay. The auction stated that shipping & insurance were fixed amount. Silly me live and learn. I get EOA from seller asking for $5.00 shipping. I ASSumed that I was getting priority insured. The package arrived 24 days later with actual postage sticker of $1.87, used box, used bubble 1 handful of peanuts. No insurance! I went right throught the roof.
The seller actually TOLD me in email that she did not get enough for her item on the bid! Can you #*$@!*&^%$# imagine?
I left a HUGE negative.
Currently there alot of seller who don't out & out lie but omit important information.
[ edited by dejavu on Aug 31, 2000 07:01 AM ]
posted on August 31, 2000 07:11:50 AM newbarrelracer and dejavu It's called fee avoidance. These sellers use "shipping charges" to make up what they WISHED the final bid price was on their item. They have no business in an auction venue. They need to stick to strictly retailing.
How many times do we have to hear the same tired argument about shipping charges on an item purchased from ebay and the shipping charges purchased from online retail sites such as Walmart, Amazon, etc? Ebay aint no dept store, folks. And guess what? When you buy from Walmart et al. you can even return it for a refund EVEN if it's because of Buyers Remorse. Imagine that! So to all the shipping gougers on ebay, if you want to compare yourselves to the "Big Boys", better take a lesson from their customer service practices. Can't have it both ways.
posted on August 31, 2000 07:30:15 AM new
Interesting discussion! I have a couple of thoughts on this:
Firstly, if you sent the seller 6 emails all within a day or two it does not follow that he is ignoring you. If these were spread out over a week or two, you may have a problem seller.
Secondly, and in response to Borillar ... I don't think the average eBay seller does have the same 'costs' as a company that advertises on teevee, or a mail order firm. I believe that most eBay sellers are private individuals doing their thing from home, certainly not having to pay salaries for staff, or the huge amount of money it costs to advertise on teevee. This isn't a good comparison
Thirdly on the fee avoidance thing ... I encourage ALL sellers to try this ... you'll get royally jacked by eBay if the buyer defaults and you try to get your fees back
Lastly to the buyer ... if the seller's TOS stated these costs up front, and if you provided 'close supervision' during the bidding process, there should be no surprise when you got the EOA notice Pay the guy ... your son probably really wants to play the game ...
posted on August 31, 2000 07:48:57 AM new
RB, on a per item basis, I'll bet most sellers' advertising fees are higher than most retailers'. Afterall, that's all an eBay listing is -- advertising. And an eBay "ad" doesn't reach anywhere near as big an audience as a TV spot or a newspaper ad.
So on a per item, per view basis, eBay sellers pay very high advertising rates.
posted on August 31, 2000 08:05:56 AM new
vargas ... interesting theory, but I'll bet a 60 second spot on teevee (most of those mail order ads run the full 60) costs way more per capita than listing an item on eBay. Anyone know realistic numbers here?
posted on August 31, 2000 08:09:20 AM new
No way. TV ad time costs millions for seconds, ebay costs pennies for days.
average eBay seller does have the same 'costs' as a company that advertises on teevee, or a mail order firm. I believe that most eBay sellers are private individuals doing their thing from home, certainly not having to pay salaries for staff, or the huge amount of money it costs to advertise on teevee.This isn't a good comparison
Right. And KatyD is right; it's a tired old argument used by people who probably rip off their customers as a matter of routine.
Borillar, do you have a 400,000 sq. ft. warehouse in cities across the country? Have you any idea what one, just one costs to lease? Have you got a fleet of trucks to maintain and replace? How about, say, 50,000 employees across the nation? Have you even got a single forklift?
Sears has those, so does Amazon books, as well as hundreds of the companies that you rank yourself with insofar as your shipping and handling charges.
posted on August 31, 2000 08:19:20 AM new
I look at each seller as their own store.
This is what he is offering.
These are the payment forms he takes.
Here is his refund policy.
And shipping terms.
The bidders that really run into problems are the ones that look at the total ebay as a "bargain basement retail with a Dillard's customer service and policies" .
There is no "ebay seller" . We are all different in the way we look at our transactions.
There is no "ebay buyer" . They are all different in the way they look at it.
But politeness goes a long way in by book towards getting what you want...faster.
posted on August 31, 2000 08:36:42 AM new
I don't necessarily think that the quoted prices are exorbitant and they are plainly stated. Most sellers work for nothing in terms of shipping charges and this one feels his efforts should be compensated for. He certainly won't get rich shipping. (Why anyone thinks that eBay sellers are raking in big bucks on shipping charges is beyond me. Almost no one does the volume that makes a big profit from these charges--and there are much easier ways to do so)
The only thing that bugs me is that the seller was emailed multiple times and did not respond.
People who don't respond (promptly) to their email are clueless. One email initiated a $20,000 assignment for me. I wouldn't do business with a seller who won't respond.
(I'd email from a different address like Yahoo or Hotmail--in the event your email never made it.)
posted on August 31, 2000 09:53:44 AM new
"No way. TV ad time costs millions for seconds, ebay costs pennies for days."
Those are network TV Superbowl, Survivor, Who Wants to be a Millionaire ad rates. Most television ads don't cost anywhere near that much money. Call the sales departments of a couple of cable tv channels and some local stations, ask for a rate card.
An ad run during a primetime network event or popular tv show is likely to be seen by tens of millions of households.
An ad on a cable network will likely be seen by a few hundred thousand.
An ad on a local station, during reasonable viewing hours, may be seen by tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands, depending on market size.
How often does one of your hit counters register 1,000?
And on a per-item basis, a WalMart ad campaign's cost is spread over tens of thousands of items times hundreds of locations. The cost per item sold is much less than a quarter. It's the economy of scale.
posted on August 31, 2000 09:53:59 AM new
mballai ... not only 'clueless', but they have no concept of email etiquette. If I had a buck for every unanswered email that I have sent to eBay sellers asking them a question about their item or their shipping policies before the auction closing, I wouldn't need to sell ... ever again
Even if a seller doesn't want to deal with me (for whatever reason), they should still offer me the courtesy of a reply ...
posted on August 31, 2000 11:05:00 AM new
Barrelracer... The auction page stated simply: Shipping for this item is $4.20. There was not mention of handling charges. And, yes, I did read this before my son bid and at the time interpreted this to mean that the package weighed between 2 & 3 lbs. It wasn't until I got the EOA e-mail and saw he was charging $2 for insurance and $1 for tracking that I questioned the weight.
I never indicated to him that I was refusing to pay his charges -- simply asking him to consider a reduction. If his answer is no, I'll accept that and pay him immediately and I have made this point very clear. I don't feel it is wrong to ask a private seller to work with you on a matter such as this.
To answer your second question, I have sent a total of 6 e-mails in 6 days, always letting him know that I am willing to pay immediately regardless of his response to my question and that all I am looking for is a reply. I am mindful of the time difference in Hawaii and have always allowed for that - I am remaining polite and courteous.
It is just amazing to me that he cannot find the time to type three little words and hit the send key! And yes, I am now feeling the same as many of you have suggested, a bit leery of sending this seller my money if he cannot take 1 minute to invest in customer service. Have I annoyed him to the point that he will not send my item???
Since I originally posted this thread, I took the time (I guess this has now become a mission) to send a group e-mail to the winners of his auctions from the same date as mine to inquire if anyone was experiencing similar communication problems. Guess what - many of them replied that they are. It seems that several others also questioned his shipping charges, both before and after the auctions ended, and not a single one has received a reply. Yet others (those without questions) report they had a pleasant back-and-forth chat after the auction closed. I know he is receiving these e-mails; he is choosing to ignore them.
To those of you who compare an auction win to a retail purchase - they are worlds apart. First of all, you don't have the protection you have with an established business, so instinctively you are going to be wary.
In my opinion there is nothing wrong with asking a seller to consider a compromise, especially if you clearly indicate that you will honor whatever decision he makes and follow through immediately with payment. It's not like I'm threatening him with ''lower your charges, or else.''
I will eventually get bored with all of this and pay his charges and hope to receive the item, which is probably what he's counting on, but you can believe I will never look at his listings again.
My lasting impression of this transaction will be... this is the kind of seller that makes buyers afraid to place future bid and all sellers look bad.
Thank you for clarifying the length of time for your emails.
Yes, I agree with you that this seller has horrible shipping terms, and a worse business attitude in regards to customer service.
I have to disagree with your:
My lasting impression of this transaction will be... this is the kind of seller that makes buyers afraid to place future bid and all sellers look bad
Hopefully, the majority of bidders understand each seller is unique, and are not as narrow-minded to treat all sellers the same.
I try to look at each seller and bidder as an individual, otherwise I would feel all cops, truckers, lawyers and doctors were bad too, because of one bad experience with a member of that profession.
If all sellers stopped after one bad transaction with a bidder, there would soon be no ebay.
posted on August 31, 2000 12:31:29 PM new
Recently I sold a laptop, I put the wrong S&H fees in the listing and guess what? I had to pay $10.00 out of my pocket for Shipping it. I approached the buyer with the problem, Well, he stated he's bound by the Ad, and I could not disagree with him. I even left him a positive feedback, it was not his fault it was mine.
If buyers assume things that are not in the Ad, well why do you blame the seller.
I don't see any thing wrong for Overcharging for the ins&tracking as long as it was stated in advance or in the ad, the reason is the time it takes to do that. If the package is insured/tracked, it must be delivered to the USPS office. That takes time and at least 1/2 an hour.
Put yourself in the seller's shows, would stand in line for at least 10-15 minutes to ship a 3.00 item without some incentive?
I know I wouldn't.
[ edited by trueuser on Aug 31, 2000 12:34 PM ]
