melodie
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posted on November 9, 2000 07:28:06 AM new
Two years ago in Dec. I sold an old Glascock Coke Cooler to a man in New Hampshire and I'm from the midwest.He said since it was so heavy to ship he'd arrange for someone to pick it up but he'd need two weeks to arrainge it.He went ahead and sent me the money for the cooler.When I hadn't heard from him in 6 wks.I contacted im again.He said he'd been really busy and he'd get right on it and arrange to get someone to pick it up.This was the last I heard from him.I contacted once more and I've never heard from him since the second time.Well last night a man who worked for him called me and wanted to arrange a pick up or a refund on the merchandise.I told him no I thought storage had eaten up the original selling price.You just can't leave something at a persons house for two yrs. and still expect it to be there.He said he'd have to talk to his boss and see if he wanted to take any action.Can he take any action after all this time.We used to have this cooler in our antique booth and when we sold it to him he wanted it taken out and brought home so it didn't sell so we've had it in our garage all this time having to move around it.After a year and a half I told my husband to get rid of it as it was taking up so much space I had no room for anything else.Does anyone know if he can do anything after all this time?
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Shoshanah
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posted on November 9, 2000 07:51:52 AM new
I know that Law and Logic do not always work hand=in=hand...but it would seem, logically, that the buyer should have no recourse. Did you save all the Emails exchanged with him? That would be a great help. He probably did not, which is just fine.
Sounds like he is just trying to bully you into getting things done his way.
As long as you tried to contact him and saved the Emails, you should be fine...
********************
Shosh
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/rifkah/
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littlenell
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posted on November 9, 2000 07:55:19 AM new
It seems to me that when you decided there was no deal and you were going to get rid of the item, you should have refunded his money. It doesn't seem right for you to be in possession of both the item and the money. Legally, you are probably in the right.
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rlowe
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posted on November 9, 2000 07:56:19 AM new
Why don't you just allow him to pick it up and you won't have to move it around anymore?
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eyeguy6
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posted on November 9, 2000 07:58:09 AM new
I am a graduate of the Judge Judy class of 4:30 pm and I think that the storage fees you'd be entitled to would more than off set the value of the item.
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avaloncourt
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posted on November 9, 2000 08:00:12 AM new
I say let him have it. Seal it all up nice any tidy so there won't be any damage in transit. Inform him that he can made arrangements with whatever trucking company he chooses.
Oh... did I for get to mention that prior to packaging the item for shipping you should find as many lead bars as possible and fill the cooler with them? When the freight company charges him for moving a 1400lb item you will have received your satisfaction of a transaction well done.
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mballai
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posted on November 9, 2000 08:01:13 AM new
A lot may have to do with the value of the item as to whether there's something worth contending over. I doubt very much this is worth haggling over. In essence he didn't fulfill his end of the bargain, but I would have contacted him with a final notice that if it wasn't picked up, you'd dispose of his property and keep the sum as storage payment.
Auctions necessarily should be completed promptly and the ground rules are that the bidder should have the merchandise within about three weeks of payment. If it were me, I'd have returned his money long ago and resold the item. An adult businessman should be able to schedule somethng and get it done.
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littlenell
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posted on November 9, 2000 08:05:20 AM new
rlowe and avaloncourt:
From my reading of Melodie's post, the item is no longer in her possession. So, giving it to the bidder is not an option. The price of the bid is important, though. Melodie, how much did the bidder pay?
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on November 9, 2000 08:08:10 AM new
I thought storage had eaten up the original selling price.
Did you tell him two years ago that you were charging him for storage?
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melodie
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posted on November 9, 2000 08:58:23 AM new
After my third email he never bothered to answer be back.He'd promised after the second email He'd get right on it and have someone to come and pick it up.I told him to please call me when he made the arraingements so I'd make sure and have it ready and someone would be here.He said he'd contact me in a couple of days.Nothing after that and it's been almost two years.I just figured when I hadn't heard from him that it must have been too expensive to have someone come and deliver to New Hampshire and we sold at the end of summer.
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mrpotatoheadd
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posted on November 9, 2000 09:06:51 AM new
Although it was inconsiderate of the buyer to not maintain contact with you, I think that you should have informed him if you were indeed planning on charging him for storage, or returned his payment to him. It doesn't seem quite right for you to keep his payment and the item, too.
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RM
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posted on November 9, 2000 09:18:59 AM new
Realizing that there's a lot I don't know here. (such as exactly what was discussed in email and what actual agreements with respect to "storage" were reached)
From a legal sense, since the customer DID actually pay for the item, even though it's been two years, unless there's some kind of written or oral agreement or statute of limitations, I'd say the customer is entitled to someting.
From an ethical sense, the seller can't expect to keep or to turn around and re-sell something that "belongs" to someone else without clearing up the situation first.
But , as I said there are a lot of details I don't know about.
Ray
[ edited by RM on Nov 9, 2000 09:22 AM ]
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melodie
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posted on November 9, 2000 09:38:22 AM new
After the first year that he did not come and pick it up I had to take it out and wrap in heavy plastic and set it outside as I didn't have room in garage and I don't have a basement and very small house.What if someone had stolen it while it was outside?The only other alternative would have been to store in the antique booth and and when this rents for $75.00 a month and this takes up half of it.If you bought something from a business and didn't come and get for two years would they refund if they'd stored that long?If he'd tried to contact me before now or even a year after purchase I could have understood but two years.
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feralboy
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posted on November 9, 2000 09:52:18 AM new
I had a similar problem years ago when I sold antique cars. A guy bought an old 1938 Chevy from me and I threw in a 1939 junk car so he could have parts. Total price $900. He promptly picked up the 38, but left the junky 39 in my farm field for a year.
Then he calls me on the telephone, a year later, and says he wants ALL his money back because parts are NOW missing off the junk 39. I told him he abandoned it for a year and I think kids stole the door knobs! HERES the kicker: the guy is a WEASEL lawyer and I find out that he just does'nt want any old cars anymore and this is his way of getting some easy money hoping I will just "settle" by paying him SOMETHING(its called "poisoning a deal" !)
I call a REAL good lawyer and here was his advice:
Agree to refund the purchase price THEN establish a fair market value (must be proven) for storage fees. SUBTRACT the storage fees from the purchase price : refund the balance.
In my case, car storage at the city impound lot was $6 a day, X 365 days, so the storage fees were $2190.
The original sale was for $900 dollars!So If the Weasel proceeded in suing he would owe ME $1290!!
I never heard from him again.
Hope you don't have to go to this extreme, my advice is to try and work with the buyer as much as you can. Most people aren't weasels, but if this guy is then........
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cheeses
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posted on November 9, 2000 10:30:13 AM new
Melodie,
When you accepted the money, the cooler became his property.
You have a right to charge for storage, but you have no right to sell it or give it away. He has every right to demand the return of the item.
He paid for it and he owns it. He just neglected to pick it up.
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uaru
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posted on November 9, 2000 10:38:54 AM new
??? How much money are we talking about here?
I can see the problem with the buyer not picking the item up, and at some point I'd have sent a registered letter requiring a firm commitment.
Selling the item a second time without closing the books on the first transaction was a big mistake.
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yisgood
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posted on November 9, 2000 11:14:46 AM new
One of my clients is a company that solves the problem of mechanics working on a car and then the owner never shows up to pick it up. They do all the paperwork to transfer title to the mechanic. The mechanic then sells the car and the owner gets the price less all costs. Costs include:
-the repair bill
-the cost of the service to transfer title
-storage per day at the standard prevailing rate in the area
So I see no reason why you can't work something out like:
Customer paid $200 for this machine. Storage at $1 per day X 2 years is about $700. So customer owes you $500. If he tries to sue you for the $200 (highly doubtful) you countersue for the $500. But let him take the effort and cost of getting the summons and having it served.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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sg52
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posted on November 9, 2000 11:26:27 AM new
When you accepted the money, the cooler became his property
This is not so.
When seller accepted the money, seller became obligated to deliver the cooler to buyer.
The subsequent negotiation may have resulted in a "FOB" transaction, with seller being obligated to deliver the cooler to buyer at seller's location.
However, delivery was never made, and title never passed to buyer.
Presuming no agreement to the contrary, buyer has a case. Since buyer never accepted title, and didn't agree to any storage fee or other penalty for delay, seller cannot spring such charges later. FOB sales should always include a clause to cover this type of situation. It might have been very fair to include a penalty for a two year delay which would have consumed all or most of the purchase price.
Note the difference between this story and the car left in the field. In the car story, delivery was made, and title did pass to buyer.
sg52
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melodie
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posted on November 9, 2000 11:39:14 AM new
There was no title to deliver.I offered to ship to his location but he said no this was too expensive and wanted to send someone to pick it up.The last time I notified him I asked him to please come pick it up as I had nowhere to store it and could not be responsible for it.He had my address and phone number to contact me but I didn't have his address or phone number just an email address.My son had accidently deleted all my old emails earlier this year.Why did he just decide to call me last night?This would have been 9:30 my time so 11:30 eastern time.All I've had was his name and I knew he was from New Hampshire.Why couldn't he have contacted me someway before now?
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RM
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posted on November 9, 2000 11:45:28 AM new
At the moment the seller agreed to "store" the item, it became the responsiblity of the two parties involved to argee on the terms of the "storage". Otherwise, the "terms" of the sellers obligations and the buyers expectations, could default to the state statutes that may apply. Local libraries usually have copies of the state and local statutes. I can't think of any business that will store something without a written policy or agreement of some kind.
Ray
edited since I didn't see the post above until after I posted this.
I don't know what constitutes legally agreeing to store something in your state. You might want to exolore that. But I believe that possession alone can make you partialy responsible for the item.
[ edited by RM on Nov 9, 2000 01:29 PM ]
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yisgood
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posted on November 9, 2000 11:50:31 AM new
But it is impossible to come to an agreement if the buyer refuses to respond. The last "agreement" made was the buyer stating that they would pick up the item. They never came and never responded.
I would still like to know how much money is involved here. My guess is it is too small an amount to warrant a lawsuit. Also what is the distance between buyer and seller?
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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melodie
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posted on November 9, 2000 11:51:17 AM new
Neither can I.When I sold it to him he agreed to come and pick it up within two weeks as soon as he could arrange someone to come and pick it up.
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yisgood
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posted on November 9, 2000 12:02:46 PM new
If you "remind" him that your last email to him said he had two weeks to pick it up or else you would either dispose of it or charge him storage, I doubt he could dispute that. Not many people save their emails for 2 years. You could also say that after 18 months with no word and storage charges of almost $500, you finally dumped it. I doubt this would ever come to court and if it did, it would he a "he says - she says" kind of deal. I think after two years, there wouldnt be much of a case.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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HartCottageQuilts
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posted on November 9, 2000 12:11:12 PM new
Depending on the statues in your jurisdiction, after a certain period of time the property could have been considered "abandoned". I'm not sure what happens to property deemed abandoned when the purported owner shows up a year or two after the fact.
Sounds like a call to an attorney might be in order.
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melodie
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posted on November 9, 2000 12:13:50 PM new
The amount was $450.00 and the distance is from Missouri to New Hampshire.I was in bed when this man called last night since I have to get up at 5:00am so I was kind of groggy.He said he'd have to ask his boss if he wanted to pursue any action.I told him that was the last I had heard from him two years agao that he'd get someone right on it and come get it within two weeks.Then I've heard nothing else after all this time.If I waited for every buyer to come get their purchases whenever they wanted to I'd have no place to live.You can't store things indefinitely.I tried to work with him a lot longer than the two weeks he requested and he wasn't even considerate enough to contact me to let me know anything.
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debbielennon
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posted on November 9, 2000 12:17:24 PM new
It sounds to me like the buyer abandoned his property by failing to pick it up or make other arrangements within a reasonable amount of time. It is not reasonable to expect you to store it indefinitely without him working out some sort of agreement with you. From what you have said, it sounds like he was given notice to "move it or lose it" so to speak. Definitely pursue the storage costs angle.
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cheeses
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posted on November 9, 2000 12:24:43 PM new
sg52:
I must respectfully correct your statement.
When payment is accepted for an item, ownership is immedietely transferred.
Melody had no right to sell the cooler. It was his property.
In B&M auctions, ownership transfers even before the money is accepted. Just the agreement to pay transfers ownership.
I have seen many cases in B&M auctions where the high-bidder trys to weasel out of paying for their item, and they always loose.
Again, legally the cooler become the high bidders property when his payment was accepted. This is not an opinion, it is a matter of Law.
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sprtqust
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posted on November 9, 2000 12:25:17 PM new
Did you tell him in a previous e-mail that the item must be picked up or shipped by a certain date or you would dispose of it? If not, you are probably legally obligated to produce either the item or a full refund. I know this sounds ridiculous, but he paid for the item and you promised to produce it. Whether this was two days ago or two years ago probably doesn't make any difference. I would check with an attorney. A simple phone call would probably answer your question. I'm sure the laws vary from state to state.
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yisgood
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posted on November 9, 2000 12:39:36 PM new
Did someone miss the fact that the buyer refused to respond? Imagine if I marched into your house and left a big, heavy box there, said I would be right back and then disappeared for two years? Would I have the right to show up two years later and expect to find it as I left it or ask you for reimbursement? Now add to that: you have my email ID and ask me repeatedly to take it and I refuse to answer.
But the seller here can also play hardball. Tell the buyer that you had it brought to a junkyard and you found out it's still there but there's a family of rats living in it. If they want it, they can come pick it up. Or search the Net and maybe find one in Texas and tell the buyer it's waiting for them there. After two years of being ignored, you don't have to make it easy for them.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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melodie
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posted on November 9, 2000 12:50:07 PM new
Or someone stolen it or my house burn't down with it in it?How can you be responsible for an item that length of time?I'm sorry I feel this this way but this buyer was totally irresponsible.That's just like if you went into a store and paid for a appliance and said you'd be back in a couple of weeks to pick it up and didn't return for two years.I doubt you'd made any arrangements for storage before hand and after they'd contacted you and you still didn't show up.Do you think it would still be there after 2 years?I know in most antique stores if they haven't picked up by 60 days it's gone,at least here.
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