ed123
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posted on December 27, 2000 06:25:24 PM new
I have been hearing about some horrible things happening to longtime Paypal sellers with this new verification thing. Stuff like one or two disgruntled biddrers going to Paypal instead of the seller to resolve an issue and then Paypal freezes the sellers account or takes money from his credit card or bank account. Are these reports real/any merit to them? There's no way in hell I am going to give them my bank account information if this is true! I've been a longtime PayPal member but havent used them recently to sell items
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dman3
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posted on December 27, 2000 06:47:57 PM new
PayPal will freeze your account if you receive payments from stolen credit cards or if a buyer files a claim you never sent the Item(s) they paid for they will also freeze your account if a buyer starts a charge back on a payment made to you.
Locks on your account will remain untill the issue is resolved sometimes it takes longer to investgate and settle then other times.
Paypal does and can not how ever take money from your bank account with out your signature and ok in the matter in writeing to them and your bank it would be against fedral banking regulations.
If they took money from your credit card or debit card you could simplly call the credit card company about the unathorized charges from paypal and have them removed or charged back so that makes no since at all.
How ever whether you have a verifide accout or not if there is a valid charge back or case of credit card fraud in your account and there is no fund in your paypal account they can take the case to collections like anyother company you owe money too.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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MRBucks
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posted on December 27, 2000 06:48:38 PM new
Ignore the anti Pay Pal HYPE...
Check the threads on most of the stories and you will probably find the reason for trouble is "Operator Error" or 'not being able to tie their shoes'...
However, none of them will EVER admit they are at fault...
Just play by the rules set out in the TOS and you will be OK...
Then again, you are having trouble with eBay's rules soooo ??
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
..."If you keep doing what you've been doing...
...you'll just keep getting what you've been getting"...
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ed123
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posted on December 27, 2000 06:50:52 PM new
How am I supposed to prevent a stolen credit card from being used? Would they freeze an account on a $10 item do you think? Sounds ridiculous to me that they can tie up a busiensses money with slow tech support to unfreeze the account. I last logged into the site and read something new about only 1 check per day being isssued. I didnt understand why someone would ask paypal to clear out his account more than once a day, but I think I can now. Do they ever cancel checks they send out for this reason?
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ed123
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posted on December 27, 2000 06:52:29 PM new
Yeah, well at least when ebay ends an auction they refund the fees and would never take from my bank account!!
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ed123
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posted on December 27, 2000 06:55:14 PM new
MrBucks, that is an attack on me personaly AND AGASINT THE AUCTION WATCH TOS.
You have just unjustly accused me of having trouble following eBay rules. I have no such trouble at all following them. Please refrain from attacks on me personlay and my character in the future.
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rarriffle
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posted on December 27, 2000 06:57:58 PM new
I have been a verified member for quite a few months with no problems so far. I electronically transfer monies to my bank account as soon as the balance reaches $40.00 or more. I have a credit card registered there with a very low limit, just used for purchases and ebay charges. I transfer the money out of the bank account it goes into to my regular bank account. If you play CYA, you should be fine.
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ed123
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posted on December 27, 2000 07:00:34 PM new
Most of what I sell goes for $10 or under. What happens if I'm verified and the USPS loses something, or perhaps I make a small mistake and ship a little late or something and as a result the buyer just goes right to PayPal since the verification thing. (as opposed to contacting me to resolve a problem). Will my account freeze, or will they try to get money off my CC or out of my account to give that person $10 refund without my permission?
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dman3
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posted on December 27, 2000 07:03:35 PM new
PayPal Terms state to alway make sure the shipping address the buyer sends you in there reply to EOA matches the billing address in the notice of payment from paypal if these addresses dont match not to send the Item but to notify paypal Of this as it is one key way to spot credit card fraud.
Samething bidpay tells you in the email they send you when someone orders a money order sent to you.
so best way to is to never ship items paid for with credit card from paypal or anyother service is never send the Item to a third party.
Dont matter if the fraud is for $1 or for $1000 they freeze your whole account.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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dman3
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posted on December 27, 2000 07:10:52 PM new
Paypals TOS says everything you ship is to be shipped On line trackable so there is proof you shipped your Items so delivery comfirmation would be wise to pay for.
If you Item can be tracked online you can send comfirmation number to paypal and your buyer.
Since paypal does not want to be held judge and jury for lost or damage shippments after you prove you shipped the ITem you clear with them you still must deal with your buyer to prevent chargeback.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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ed123
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posted on December 27, 2000 07:16:20 PM new
Yeah but if you're shipping a $10 item it can be difficult to ship registered and make profit.
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MRBucks
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posted on December 27, 2000 07:17:21 PM new
ed123...
I did not say you are breaking the rules. I said you are having trouble with them...Understanding, questioning, etc...sorry if it came out wrong in your opinion.
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rarriffle
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posted on December 27, 2000 07:20:57 PM new
ed123, you don't need to register your shipments, just get delivery confirmation on them. It only cost 35 cents and is a great way to get peace of mind. I check my DCs every evening and know exactly when each package arrived. I then email the buyer that I see shipment has arrived and hope they are pleased.
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ed123
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posted on December 27, 2000 07:24:55 PM new
I never accused you of accusing me of breaking the rules, but of having trouble understanding them. I am, in fact, having NO trouble following and understanding eBay rules. That is a false statement about me and I am asking that you apologize for or retract it.
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abacaxi
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posted on December 28, 2000 04:54:09 AM new
dman3 -
"PayPal Terms state to alway make sure the shipping address the buyer sends you in there reply to EOA matches the billing address in the notice of payment from paypal"
So they are FINALLY giving the seller that bit of protection?
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pickersangel
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posted on December 28, 2000 07:38:03 AM new
Once you have a good idea of PayPal's "MO", it's pretty easy to play CYA, as rariffle put it, and avoid any problems. First of all, DO verify your account, if you're going to be accepting payments into it. You aren't covered by PP's "Seller Protection" if you don't, and then you do get into all kinds of problems, if one of your buyers uses a stolen card or initiates a chargeback. If you don't want to give them the info for your primary checking account, set up another account strictly for PayPal use. DO follow the requirements of the "Seller Protection" agreement to the letter--no international shipments, no electronic delivery of software. DO use Delivery Confirmation or some other trackable proof of shipping on all of your shipments.
On the other side of the transaction, DON'T make payments to unverified sellers, as you then have no recourse under PP's "Buyer Protection". In the event that you have already paid an unverified seller and have to do a chargeback on your credit card, change the email address on your PP account to one that won't be receiving payments and remove any bank account info before doing so.
always pickersangel everywhere 
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goodwillhunter
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posted on December 28, 2000 08:18:26 AM new
Ignore dmon and MRBUCKs and dump Paypal immediately!!! After the grief and hell this company has put me through I would rather trade beads and shiny objects than accept a Paypal payment
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ed123
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posted on December 28, 2000 08:22:56 AM new
Whats this I hear about them dipping into a bank account to retrive disputed funds from items claimed fraud and freeziing someones account for weeks? A seller would have to be veriifed for that to happen thuogh! Makes nosense
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sg52
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posted on December 28, 2000 03:18:09 PM new
). Will my account freeze, or will they try to get money off my CC or out of my account to give that person $10 refund without my permission?
No one can answer your questions, even Paypaldamon.
The truth is, PayPal changes its rules regularly and without warning, and if you read the agreement you'll find that they expect you to pretty much let them do as they please.
However, from many reports here and elsewhere, PayPal will lock accounts first and sort it out later, for a wide variety of issues.
sg52
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ed123
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posted on December 28, 2000 04:58:20 PM new
Gee I dunno what to do anymore. I used to love paypal when it took a laizze faire approach. But I dont want my funds locked up or taken out of my account. I cant use billpoint because I dont want my bank/collection affairs tied to my eBay account. IS Yahoo Paydirect any good?
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pickersangel
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posted on December 28, 2000 06:00:27 PM new
"Whats this I hear about them dipping into a bank account to retrive disputed funds from items claimed fraud and freeziing someones account for weeks? A seller would have to be veriifed for that to happen thuogh! Makes nosense"
Can anyone verify an incident where:
1. The seller was verified.
2. The shipping address for the buyer was within the US.
3. The seller had proof of shipment.
AND
4. The seller's bank account was debited and his PayPal account was frozen before he had the opportunity to respond to the charges of fraud.
If so, how long did it take to get the Seller Protection agreement invoked, i.e. the funds credited back to his bank account, and his PayPal account released? Did this happen to you personally, or is this hearsay?
always pickersangel everywhere
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goodwillhunter
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posted on December 28, 2000 07:24:45 PM new
pickersangel- I will verify all 4 things on your list. My account was frozen 11/20 and Paypal has yet to give me an answer why.
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pickersangel
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posted on December 28, 2000 07:52:17 PM new
OK, you're the first case I've encountered where the seller met all 3 of the first conditions. What steps have you taken to find out, and what is PayPal telling you as to what it will take to resolve the situation and how long? Seems like if you met all 3 of the first conditions, you should have been covered by the Seller Protection agreement (assuming this is related to a buyer transaction on your account). Would you have happened to do a chargeback on your own credit card or deny a debit on your bank account, by chance? I was told by a PP CS rep to deny a bank debit when I accidently (with some help from PP) used my bank account as a source of funds, rather than my credit card. However, she failed to inform me (until I specifically asked) that doing so would probably result in their freezing my account.
always pickersangel everywhere
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ed123
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posted on December 28, 2000 07:54:57 PM new
The problem here is that they lock busienss accounts for days until things can be wroked out. Many businesses NEED the funds in the account to pay for goods/shipments or accept payments. They are interfering with one's right to earn a living by locking accounts for no reason!
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goodwillhunter
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posted on December 28, 2000 08:57:48 PM new
I have emailed the Paypal account review dept. 28 times. I have turned them in to the Better Business Bureau and the FBI. I have received absolutely no reply from Paypal regarding the reason for the restriction.
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dman3
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posted on December 28, 2000 09:16:45 PM new
Even though it is all to true that paypal may lock your accounts for problem at times and that businesses need money from this account for many reason this is where a good plan comes in when makeing your business plan.
My plan included problems turning some sales into cash before the money was needed So before I started selling I set up my Auction bank account.
With What I call working capital a set amount of money to cover most business cost for about two months if problems should Happen this account is not tied to any of my personal fund or saveing or checking accounts.
I also set up a few credit card payment options if there is a problem with anything includeing web site down what ever.
I have two domains names with two different email addresses and I have my ISP email all the mail can be forworded to my IPS if that is down I can get most of my email and beamed payments and adresses on the web.
So I have a few alternate routes to continue doing my business on the net.
I am now working on a second ISP trying to find the best of whats left of the free service to sign up with.
I have set up and have the number of a company I can rent or lease a computer incase of a crash on mine within 2 hours or so of calling them they will deliver or I can pick it up from them the cost is a little high but its better then upset auction winners.
I have a digtal camera and a supply of baterys but I also have a Instant camera and flim to get my photos that scan pretty well.
There are many other parts to my online auction sales plans and goals it more then likely dont hurt that my wife is a business major and an accountant and that my family and myself have ran a few brick and mortar businesses over the years.
Here is a tip Rule #1 after you have a plan is never do anything in your business suddenly that will cost you so much all at once that it will put you out of business next week or month if it fails if you have a high cost or High priced Idea for your business sleep on it a few days and see if after a short time if it still seems so powerfull you cant resist it.
No want is so Nessasary that you need to park your brain and rush into a mistake.
If you feel a lock or freeze on a third party credit card merchant would put you out of business or leave you broke and hungry frist thing you need to do is rethink your business plan and goals.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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twinsoft
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posted on December 28, 2000 09:43:26 PM new
Pickersangel, you have your wires crossed. Even if the seller can't prove shipping (and most $10 items aren't worth the trouble of DC), why should Paypal lock up hundreds of dollars in a seller's account for months over a $10 dispute? No one is disputing the right or wrong of Paypal's investigations. But why do they seize ALL the funds in a seller's account, even when the issue is non-delivery of a $4.98 item? Paypal is floating themselves a loan at members' expense, and if they put a customer out of business, that's tough. Hire Paypal to handle your online payments and you might as well give them the family jewels on a silver platter. The only ones who aren't complaining are the ones who haven't been burned yet. Just read Paypal's Terms Of Use and you will see they can grab your money at any time for no reason at all, and they CAN KEEP IT.
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pickersangel
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posted on December 29, 2000 06:19:12 AM new
TS, I don't have my wires crossed, I'm just being objective in looking for info on exactly WHAT PayPal is doing, in order to make my own decisions about my own business. I prefer not to submit to the Chicken Little mentality that exists toward PayPal on this board. As far as "locking up the whole account", while we may not agree that it's appropriate, that's the policy that PayPal has set. As users, we're all aware of it, so we either accept it and keep using PP, or we don't and close our accounts. I'd guess that their justification in locking up the whole account is kind of a "where there's smoke there's fire" mentality, i.e. if you've scammed one person, you've probably scammed several more. To avoid the bad eggs from emptying out everything BUT the disputed funds (and making it difficult or impossible for PayPal to recover the funds to pay off any other claims), the whole account is restricted until the matter is resolved.
The Seller Protection policy says the seller MUST be able to provide proof of shipping. Anyone who doesn't get that proof, in order to put the Seller Protection in force, really doesn't have much room to complain when his account gets restricted because he's NOT protected. My point in asking was that, with the exception of goodwillhunter, almost every other case of "unjustified" account restriction involved a seller who was unverified, or shipped internationally, or didn't have proof of shipping. They could have easily covered their butts but failed to, and now it's PAYPAL'S fault.
I find goodwillhunter's case exceptional--usually PP's answer is that they don't have one, until the investigation is finalized. I'd suggest writing [email protected] with the info. Get someone SPECIFIC working on getting you the details. It may be too late to do that, though. If you've gotten the feds involved, your account will probably be restricted until any investigation they've initiated is complete, and no one but the investigators is going to get any information.
always pickersangel everywhere
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vargas
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posted on December 29, 2000 07:22:00 AM new
[b]I'd guess that their justification in locking up the whole account is kind of a
"where there's smoke there's fire" mentality, i.e. if you've scammed one person, you've probably scammed several more.[/b]
The problem with this thinking is that perfectly innocent people, who haven't scammed anyone, can have their entire accounts frozen by PayPal because the Post Office loses a $4.00 item. Or because some credit card thief decides to bid on their auction, wins, and uses a stolen credit card to fund the payment via PayPal.
Spending 35 cents to put delivery confirmation on a $3.50 item does NOT make sense. A bidder is not going to want to pay for it. I don't DC or insure items under a set dollar amount, because I replace the item if it is lost in the mail. All the buyer has to do is contact me. Over a set dollar amount, I DC AND insure.
Unfortunately, there are some people out there who either don't have the common sense or the common decency to contact the seller when an item does not arrive. They would rather let PayPal handle it.
It's little stuff like that that can lead to an entire account being frozen unnecessarily.
Plus, PayPal's TOS reads like a consumer advocate's nightmare... for buyers AND sellers. "Verification" is a joke. Anyone with a stolen wallet in hand can open a checking account online... or by phone & fax at a B&M bank.
edited for UBB
[ edited by vargas on Dec 29, 2000 07:22 AM ]
[ edited by vargas on Dec 29, 2000 07:23 AM ]
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MRBucks
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posted on December 29, 2000 08:44:28 AM new
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
..."If you keep doing what you've been doing...
...you'll just keep getting what you've been getting"...
[ edited by MRBucks on Dec 29, 2000 08:51 AM ]
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