posted on December 29, 2000 01:19:58 PM new
I have recently come across sellers that are adding extra charges either a percentage or flat fee if the buyer pays with PayPal, how sleazy !!!
What's with all these whiney sellers that also want to charge for "handling" and inflated shipping charges.
The "it costs money for materials etc." excuse doesn't fly with me, any business will have a certain amount of overhead. What's next, are these sellers going to ask for the buyer to pay for part of their rent/mortgage or utility bill or internet connection costs?
I avoid these auctions like the plague and sellers should be aware of this, I'm sure I'm not the only one.
posted on December 29, 2000 02:07:49 PM new
dhamjpsnet...
Those sellers will be the same ones that when PP locks their accounts for 'rule' infractions, to cry like a baby.."I didn't do anything wrong" they will say...
Totally unprofessional and against the rules of ebay and the CC companies, etc..
I agree with you 100%, I also avoid those auctions...
"If you don't have the time to do it right ...
When will you have the time to do it over ? ..."
posted on December 29, 2000 02:19:56 PM new
Paypal charges the seller a fee, If a buyer wants to buy from a seller and use paypal as an option they have the option to accept the sellers terms. If one of those terms is an additional fee. then so be it. Accept the terms or not. All the sellers terms should be considered before bidding on any item
If someone is selling things for less than $5.00 and paypal is charging them an additional fee on each transaction that can add up very quickly.
If the item cost is more $20.00 for example then a small fee from paypal won't make as much difference.
As a buyer you have the option to accept or decline to buy from any seller
posted on December 29, 2000 02:51:15 PM new
If you report these listing and seller to safe harbor there auction with fees for useing paypal will be canceled on them.
I know many people dont like to be tattle tales and play net cop but I know if you wrote many of these Buyers it would end up more hastle then it worth as most will just send back an abusive nasty repply to you.
How ever I dont agree with your decription of these people as sleezy or cheap I am finding quickly flat or fixed shipping rates about 8% to 10% over postage cost is becomeing nessasary as these auction end prices are decided by the bidders and not by the seller.
If I start my auction 8 to 10 % higher then the other guys I get less interest in my Items if my start prices are reasonablly the same or a tad lower I get the bids and the interest and so far there is no objection to paying 8% to 10% to cover the cost of new clean packageing and custom made boxes packed to arrive in the same condition they left where they were shipped from.
In the long run useing clean new packing materals and not depending on free boxes from the PO which are sub standard for many item either to big to small or to weak saves me loads of money in refunds and complaints for every refund I or insurance claim I have to make I must sell 4 other Item of the same price to turn the loss back into a break even situation also leaves little chance this person will bid on my item again.
I never dicker or work out shipping arangements for less then stated in my listing any more ever if a buyer was interested enough to bid and win a item of mine based on what they see and read about it they are interested enough to pay what it takes to get it to them in that condidition .
most Item I ship are in the $3 to $7 range and ship and cost from $2.97 to $6 to ship This would be for parcel post or frist class shipping with out insurance. 10% above this is not alot to ask for excellent service and profesional carefully custom made to fit boxes and packageing with new Materals offered 18 to 24 hours every day packing companys would charge $11 up to $2000 just to package an Item forget the shipping thats extra My fee .30 and up depending on rate to ship also if the buyer needs or wants 2 day express priority shipping insurance delivery comfirmation I will offer this as well they just have to add the extra cost for these extra services.
No one could Keep doing this long if for every $100 or $150 in sales it cost them $80 to compelet this amount of sales Average + fees of $25 to $40 or more from start to finish.
At this rate weekly monthly how ever you figure it even if your selling personal Items and Item you have received free no inventory cost you will be negtive hundereds of dollars at the end of the year for people who enjoy paying bidder to take there item more power to them but most know that doing this for fun hobby or as a buissness it must do better then pay for its self.
posted on December 29, 2000 03:41:38 PM new
What a ridiculous notion, tryng to tell a merchant what he can charge. If you don"t like the terms of sale don"t bid on the item. I find it disturbing when people make comments like this. I get the impression they do not understand real business practices. The only thing that matters anyway is the end cost. If I charge $5.00 for a widget plus $5.00 shipping, or if I charge $7.50 for the widget and $2.50 for the shipping the cost is the same. People need to quit crying about the cost of shipping on ebay and just start looking at it as part of the cost of the item. No one is forcing them to bid on anything. I routinly pass up auctions that I feel are not a good deal, but I do not wine that someone is being dish0nest simply because they will not sell me the item for what I want to pay.
posted on December 29, 2000 03:43:04 PM new
dman3 -
You are not the type of seller to which I am refering. I am talking about the type that sells, say a DVD or Cd or some similar small item and charge a fee(s) for using PayPal and/or handling charges. For instance the seller has a music CD and the final price is say, $8.00 and you pay with PayPal and they want to charge you an extra dollar, and on top of that $6.00 shipping and handling. Now we're talking $15.00 total. ten days later you receive the CD and see it was sent third class postage for $0.85
Just as sleazy is when shipping is quoted at $3.20 which anyone would assume is Priortity mail and the item is sent third class. To me this is deceiving and flat out sleazy. The USPS has now had to print "USPS" on the inside of their free packaging because sleazy sellers were turning them inside out and not sending Priority, but some cheaper rate.
posted on December 29, 2000 04:06:01 PM new
ROCKMTHI
I am not just whining for whining's sake. I am actually trying to pass along a little constructive critisism.
Like you say, you consider the total cost and decide then. I believe if these costs are kept low sellers would probably attract more bidders which in turn drives up the price.
While not scientific, I have sold identical items as a seller with high s&h charges and find my lower cost s&h always gets more bids and a higher price, even if you add in the exagerated s&h.
posted on December 29, 2000 04:47:46 PM new
You know, I went to Walmart last week to purchase a $5 widget. It was only 10 miles each way so gas cost me approx $2.00 (which I knew in advance of course). When I got there the Salvation army pot grabbed another dollar (which I knew in advance of course). And I had to have a $1 soda to quench my thirst (which I knew in advance of course). And when I went to checkout I had to pay 40 cents tax and added another $1 to their "angel" program (which I knew in advance of course). On my way home I got a flat tire, probably from the nail I picked up in the parking lot, cost $80 ( I couldn't know of this in advance of course). SO, my widget only cost me $90.40!!! THANK GOD FOR EBAY, PAYPAL, ETC, and it's "Rip-off" SELLERS!!! (which I knew in advance of course). Happy New Year Everyone!!! :>
posted on December 29, 2000 04:51:22 PM new
I wasn't aware that it was against any rules to charge extra for the paypal thing. I thought that since paypal charges a fee (.25 cents or.30 cents) the only way to still be able to take paypal on small purchases was to offer it to the buyers.
Thanks for letting me know !!!!!!!!!
posted on December 30, 2000 07:43:29 PM new
OK, it's against the rules to charge an extra 25 cents (or whatever) if someone wants to pay with paypal, it's not against the rules to bump your starting bid to cover their fees. That way, EVERYBODY gets to pay for what paypal has done.
Or, you could just stop accepting paypal, which is what I, and from what I have seen, many others, have chosen to do.
posted on December 30, 2000 08:07:30 PM new
I closed my Paypal account in October. Today I received 3 Paypal payments! Arrrgggghhh!! I told them to cancel their payments and to please use a different method, which is what they all did. No more paypal for me! I did get another email from another customer saying they no longer use paypal either because of the problems. Word is really getting out about Paypal.
The final straw for me, was when I would have a customer who only Paypaled me the bid amount and forgot to send shipping. Then, they send you another Paypal payment for the shipping. You get charged twice! What a rip-off! And, of course - I can't charge the buyer for that 2nd fee - that's against policy! Ugh! Forget it. I am now headache free! (Well, at least Paypal-headache free!)
posted on December 30, 2000 08:33:02 PM new
Paypal charges sellers. Sellers pass the costs on to customers. Any buyer who thinks sellers should absorb this cost, along with every postal fee hike, the price of packaging, eBay listing fees, etc., has got another think coming. There is no free lunch.
posted on December 30, 2000 08:57:51 PM new
This is straight from eBay's Rules & Regulations...
"Credit Card Surcharges
An eBay seller may not charge a fee, often called a "credit card surcharge," when accepting credit card payments. This surcharge, which is an added cost to the buyer over and above the final sale price and shipping/handling, is not allowed under the laws of many states, including California."
posted on December 30, 2000 08:58:59 PM new
There seems to be two different discussions going on here. One is sellers cheating. This includes 1) charging priority rate but shipping standard or 2) asking for additional fees not contained in the listing. These are wrong. If the post states 3.20 or 3.55 shipping, it had better be priority otherwise the seller is fooling the buyer and that is wrong. If the post states "pay with paypal" and doesnt mention any fees, the seller can not add the fee in the EOA.
The second discussion has to do with charging extra for using PP (or any payment service). Ebay has decided that it is against their rules. So sellers should add "2% handling added to all orders. We will NOT charge the handling if you pay with check, money order, Moneyzap, Achex, Bidpay, etc." Works out to the same thing as a PP fee but does not violate ebay's rules.
There is nothing wrong with charging fees if they are stated in the listing. It is NOT sleazy to charge for using pp or a credit card. What stores do is charge EVERYBODY, even if they dont use a credit card. Now that would be sleazy except that it is difficult for stores to set up a system where different people are charged different amounts. If the law allowed them to charge extra for credit cards, folks paying cash would pay less. But since the stupid law exists, EVERYBODY pays more and foolish credit card users think they aren't.
I discourage folks from paying with paypal (and not because of the fees, but because PP is a deceitful company). I mention in my posts that I do not recommend it and link to my PP page to explain why. I also mention that if they insist on using it, they will have to pay with non-cc funds. About once a month I get someone who, after winning, insists on paying with PP and with CC. Since this is against my TOS, I have the right to refuse. But I reply that in that case he has to cover my fees. I don't feel that there is anything wrong here. If a customer insisted on next day delivery, he should expect to pay for it. If he insists on using a payment service that is convenient for him and inconvenient for me, he should pay for that as well.
As for the tired argument that it is the cost of doing business, everything is the cost of doing business. How would you feel if a customer deducted a few bucks from his payment and said, "I decided that I'm not paying shipping or your rent or your business phone bill, it's your cost of doing business?"
If you accept PP and pay the fee, your only choice is: charge those who use it, which is fair or charge everybody even if they don't use it, which is not fair.
posted on December 30, 2000 09:21:18 PM new
First of all, I don't add surcharges or handling fees in my own auctions, but I understand why some sellers do, and IMO, that's their right, and bidders have a right to decide not to bid on that item if they don't want to pay it.
There's one important difference between some of the situations mentioned already: whether or not the surcharge, handling fee, whatever, is hidden or out in the open. If I have the big banner ad saying "I accept paypal" or my description says "I only accept paypal", then in my EOA email I slap on a 2% surcharge, that's wrong. Just like if my listing says "actual shipping", and in the EOA I claim priority mail will cost $5 for a 1 pound package, that's wrong.
BUT if I'm upfront in my listings, and I say "I take checks and money orders, but if you insist on paying by paypal, please add 2%", or even if I say in my listing "Shipping will be $5 for a 1 lb. package", of course I'm adding unnecessary fees, but if you bid on my item, you're choosing to pay them. Like I said, I don't add fees, but it does bug me when my listing says "shipping will be $3.20", and the high bidder insists I should be shipping 1st class for 2.97 - they agreed to my terms when they bid, so it's not fair for them to change their minds later.
posted on December 30, 2000 09:47:43 PM new
It doesn't matter if it's "upfront" or behind the scenes, STATING in your auction that you charge any amount for a buyer using PayPal or Billpoint is against ebay's policy and if someone complains, ebay will give you a warning. If you do it again, they could shut you down.
You can increase your opening bid amount or you can charge a "handling" charge & that's fine w/ebay.
ebay can't catch every seller who is doing this, but they have warned & even suspended some who've not heeded their warnings.
If you don't think this is the case, try testing it out by turning in one of your own auctions to ebay & asking for a ruling from them. Then report back to us what ebay has to say.
[ edited by eventer on Dec 30, 2000 10:05 PM ]
Thanks for speaking up. Yes, that is greed.
