posted on January 1, 2001 05:07:59 AM new
I often get emails like this:
"I like your stuff. What is your reserve?
If your reserve is not met, Please let me know. We can negotiate."
This people often never even place a bid!
This is my usual response:
"I do not disclose reserve. I encourage bidder to place thier maximum bid. When reserve is not met, I only deal with the highest bidder. Doing otherwise is to encourage people not to participate in the auction. Thank you."
posted on January 1, 2001 05:23:04 AM new
"Oops! Sorry I didn't include the reserve amount in the auction information. My reserve on this item is $X. Thanks for taking the time to ask!"
My reserves are never a secret. The only reason I use them is because I want to use a lower opening bid to draw hits. Say somebody does a search on "widgets". Three items appear in the list: two at $9.99, and mine....at $50. Hmm....which widget listings are bidders more inclined to click on? The first task in selling is to get a bidder just to LOOK at my widget. Indeedy, my widgets ARE more expensive, but they're also superior, which he'll realize when he sees my pic and description. He can then read how much my reserve is, and then - aided by info which shows my widget is indeed worth starting at $50 - decide whether he wants to place a bid that meets the reserve or not.
posted on January 1, 2001 08:54:18 AM new
One the rare occasions when I have used a reserve, I had no problem disclosing it when someone emailed to ask. I used it for the same reason as stated by HCQ. Once I had a rather rare and expensive item up for auction and was accepting international bids. I had numerous emails from all over the world, inquiring about my reserve. It seemed that some of these people were interested in the item and just wanted to know if it was in their price range. One lady in England was interested in the item, but the auction would have been ending about 4:00 a.m. her time. She said that she didn't want to be up at that time watching it if she wasn't going to have a chance winning it, i.e. if my reserve was over her budget. I told her my reserve. She bid and eventually won the item, which went for over three times my reserve. I don't see that revealing your reserve really matters. It will eventually be revealed by the bidders anyway.
posted on January 1, 2001 09:16:07 AM new
A seller who will not reveal their reserve does not get my bid.
I certainly don't need a seller encouraging me to bid my max. I know how to do that just fine, thank you very much. I just want to know if I'm wasting my time.
posted on January 1, 2001 09:17:58 AM new
Well, in the past I have always stated in my auction description that I would be happy to reveal my reserve to anybody who e-mailed me and asked. I frequently received such e-mails, and I always responded. I was willing to do it because I figured anybody willing to take the time to ask is probably a serious bidder and might place a bid. Also, I know that a lot of people hate reserves on general principals, and I thought maybe I could appease some of these people by making the offer.
Well, I have found that invariably the person asking for the reserve amount would either not bid at all, or else would wait until the last second and snipe. To me, the main purpose of using a reserve in the first place is to encourage early bids, which make an item appear more attractive to other potential bidders. And I have come to the conclusion that revealing my reserve to people who have no intention of bidding defeats this purpose.
So, for the first time, I have decided to place the following text in my descriptions:
I am happy to reveal my reserve to any serious bidders, so if you have placed a bid and didn't hit the reserve, please feel free to e-mail me and ask.
I placed this text in an auction I started last week. Interestingly enough, I haven't received a single e-mail asking to know the reserve amount. But at the same time, the item has received 11 bids and has now actually met the reserve.
Oh -- and just for the record, I do frequently e-mail sellers to ask for their reserve. But I either do it after I have already placed a bid, or else I place a bid after getting a response [even if it is only a small "courtesy" bid to thank the seller for telling me]. Respect goes both ways...
Regards,
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on January 1, 2001 09:40:01 AM new
I used to feel the same way as HCQ, and always revealed my reserve to anyone that asked. Last year I started coming to the same conclusion as Barry, most people who I revealed the reserve amount to, never placed a bid.
Now I simply send this to bidders when they ask my reserve, and have not yet placed a bid.
.....................................
Hello,
Due to the fact that eBay works on a fixed time format, I don't feel it's proper, or fair, for one bidder to know the reserve amount, while others do not.
Your best bet is to place your maximum bid, & see what happens.
Best of luck if you should decide to bid.
........................................
I've only had to send this email twice in the past year, and both times the buyer did indeed place a bid, and in the end won the auction.
As far as wasting time, I would think emailing sellers for each & every reserve auction [where reserve isn't met] would be a much greater waste of time, than simply placing a bid.
BTW - I seldom use reserves, and when I do the reserve is usually met within the first 48 hrs of the auction.
posted on January 1, 2001 10:31:00 AM newAs far as wasting time, I would think emailing sellers for each & every reserve auction [where reserve isn't met] would be a much greater waste of time, than simply placing a bid.
To each his own. Personally, if I'm interested in an item that has a reserve, I prefer to know if the item is actually for sale or if the seller is only fishing. Refusing to disclose the reserve IMO means s/he's fishing.
I don't see why it's surprising that a lot of people who ask for and receive the reserve do not bid. What if the item is out of their price range? What's the point of bidding if they don't want to or can't pay X amount for the item?
posted on January 1, 2001 12:01:02 PM newmost people who I revealed the reserve amount to, never placed a bid
You seem to be inferring a causal relationship between your revealing your reserve to a person and that same person not placing a bid - and I don't see any reason why that should be so. It's at least as likely that to the person in question, your reserve either appeared unreasonable for the item or it simply was out of their price range. Or maybe while waiting for your email, they found another item whose reserve WAS revealed in the listing, and they bid on that one instead of yours.
posted on January 1, 2001 12:26:16 PM new
I too have found that people inquiring about reserves are most likely not going to bid if you tell them your reserve. I send a polite response back similar to those already stated in this thread. By revealing reserves this cuts back bidding. I prefer to have more bids in my auctions.
.
.
.Kerryann....and others who think that they're wasting their time. Please explain. If you see an item at $10, and you're willing to pay $50. How are you wasting your time by placing the $50 bid. If you don't meet the reserve you've spent 7 seconds placing the bid and found out that this seller places a higher value on the item then you do. Or perhaps you'll find out that the reserve is $30, and you'll be high bidder at $30. Doesn't it take longer to e-mail seller, then wait for response back that "my reserve is $70", or "my reserve is $30", then have to go back and look at the auction again as it's probably not fresh in your mind. By placing the $50 bid, you've found out what you wanted to know already and you can move on.
posted on January 1, 2001 12:51:09 PM newYou seem to be inferring a causal relationship between your revealing your reserve to a person and that same person not placing a bid
Well, speaking just for myself, I don't necessarily see any causal relation between revealing my reserve and a person not bidding. I mean there could certainly be one [maybe my reserve is too high, and by revealing it I have discouraged the person from placing a bid], but there doesn't have to be. My point was simply that it seems a complete waste of time to reveal my reserve to somebody who hasn't bid, whether or not revealing my reserve convinced them not to bid or whether they wouldn't have bid anyway.
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on January 1, 2001 12:51:58 PM new
HCQ ..... I can't speak for the others, but I can assure it's almost always a case of being
out of their price range. That's why I don't bother giving it to them.
90+% of the time, if I use a reserve, it's on an item where you most likely won't find another on eBay. I might also add, my reserves are generally FAR less than what one would expect to pay for the same item at a shop/mall. That's why most of my reserve auctions meet reserve within 24-48 hrs. Many times my reserve auctions end at 2-4 times my reserve amount.
I can't blame bidders for not appreciating sellers who simply go "fishing", but at the same time I'm not about to give the reserve amount out to select bidders only.
I use reserve auctions for a reason, and giving out the reseve or posting the amount in my description, seems to be counter productive to my goal.
posted on January 1, 2001 01:27:31 PM newI use reserve auctions for a reason, and giving out the reseve or posting the amount in my description, seems to be counter productive to my goal.
I'm not trying to be confrontational, reddeer but I'm curious to know what is the goal? Do you think it has more of a chance of selling if the reserve is not disclosed? I'm only asking out of curiosity.
It's always been my belief that a seller who won't reveal the price they want is hiding something. If you list something that you seemingly want to sell, a person who seeks info on the price seems only natural. Keeping that info a secret boggles my mind.
pointy To me, the response that I get from a seller when I inquire about their reserve price says volumes about that seller.
I see myself as a serious bidder and have no interest in playing guessing games over prices. If you listed it to sell, what's the big secret?
I also do not decide in advance how much I am willing to pay for an item. Just as the auction format has flexible ending prices, I too am flexible in my bidding. I have no preset amount to spend on a particular item. I might go higher on something if the urge hits.
My logic might not apply to all categories of items, however, the type of things that I look to buy are very hard to find. It is frustrating to finally find something I'm interested in and see that it does not meet reserve even though the unmet bid price is far above the (usually inflated) book value.
To see an item with bids that are three times book and the reserve is not met, tells me that the seller never had any intention of selling the item, they were just on a fishing expedition.
posted on January 1, 2001 01:43:46 PM new
Kerryann ..... No problem, I appreciate hearing your concerns from a bidders perspective.
I also do not decide in advance how much I am willing to pay for an item. Just as the auction format has flexible ending prices,I too am flexible in my bidding. I have no preset amount to spend on a particular item.I might go higher on something if the urge hits.
That's pretty much why. Once a bidder commits to an item, often times they will come back if & when they are outbid. If I told them up front the items reserve was $500, they might say YIKES, and never look back.
No different than at a RL auction, the auctioneer starts an item that they're hoping to fetch $500, at $50-100, hoping that along the way auction fever will set in, and the price will go much higher.
Most seasoned bidders don't get caught up in bidding wars, at RL auctions or on eBay, but there's plenty of bidders that do.
My goal is simply to attract as many bidders/bids to my auctions as possible, knowing that items with mega bids, tend to attract more bidders when they're scanning the listings.
As HCQ has pointed out, getting people to LOOK at your auction, is half the battle.
posted on January 1, 2001 02:00:05 PM newreddeer I not sure I understand you statement:
knowing that items with mega bids, tend to attract more bidders when they're scanning the listings
This will turn me OFF of an auction faster then anything. I rarely look at auctions that have more then one or two bids at the most. Most of the items I look for will come up again on eBay, so why try for something where the price has already been driven up? I am looking for a good deal and I don't get that when there is more then one or two bidders.
posted on January 1, 2001 02:29:58 PM new
Greg ...... Hey, you & me both! But thank god for the unseasoned users that don't realize another one will surface in a few days/weeks.
I think many new users on eBay tend to follow the crowd & watch the # of bids placed. Like you, I like to look for the sleepers with little, or better yet, no action.
Seriously, many of the items I use a reserve on, may never surface again on eBay,[or at least not for a loooong time] so the mega bids tend to attract the serious bidders in these categories.
If nothing else, they just gotta have a look see to find out what all the excitement is about. I'm counting on them doing more than just taking a look & hitting the back button.
posted on January 1, 2001 04:01:28 PM new
I still have not received an explanation as to why it's a waste of time to spend the 7 seconds placing a bid instead of taking much MORE time e-mailing seller.
.
.
.
There does seem to be a bit of antagonism between buyers and sellers here. Some sellers(like me) think that most people inquiring about reserves are wasting my time fishing around sending "the reserve question" to hundreds of sellers, just waiting for one to respond that their reserve is say $50, when the informed buyer knows the fair market value is say $100. At this point the next e-mail will contain the "will you end the auction early" question. And apparantly some buyers feel that a seller is fishing around by placing an unrealistically high reserve.
.
.
Kerryann, I don't think you'd ever be a buyer of mine. Too bad, 'cause I suspect you'd like what I sell. I give quick and polite answers to questions about my stuff, but you wouldn't get an answer to "the reserve question". And I suspect that you'd also think that I'm pulling some scam since most of my auctions are PRIVATE, when in fact the sole reason that they are PRIVATE is to protect myself from scum sucking bottom feeders.
posted on January 1, 2001 04:13:46 PM new
I have another question - directed mainly at HCQ's reason for using a reserve.
I currently have a paperback book that is appraised in the $125-$175 range. I was going to start it at $25 with a $125 reserve. (to attract bidders). I never gave a thought to putting the reserve amount in the auction. But I would disclose the amount if asked.
My question is based on the fact that it is a relatively rare book and if you do a search, you more than likely won't come up with another one. So, should I still go with the small open and the reserve, or just start at $125?
posted on January 1, 2001 06:27:32 PM new
The thing that annoys me the most when shopping is merchandise that is not marked. If it is not priced I assume that the seller wants more for it than I'm willing to pay, and I turn away. The sad thing is... that assumption might not be fact. But if they aren't interested enough in selling to mark it, I am not going to buy from them.
The one time I inquired what the reserve on an auction was, I had found something I that had never seen before, but it really appealed to me. I had no idea of its usual selling range, so didn't know if it was worth $20, $50 or $1500! So I inquired of the seller what their reserve was, to find out whether it was within my purchase range. I was rebuffed with a response only slightly less condescending than Twinsoft's message (in this thread). So I dusted off my dignity and left the auction and never looked back. I certainly would not lower myself to bid on their auction after that response! That seller now is on my personal list of "do not buy from" sellers.
Sellers, if it's too time-consuming to answer queries about the reserve, then maybe you should consider showing it in your auction or at least giving a hint (such as "[specific reference] lists a value of $225-250 for this item," or some similar comment that helps them gauge whether its in their price range). Not all who bid are experts on what they're buying. If it's "too much bother" to respond to queries about your merchandise from lookers, even, then perhaps you shouldn't be in sales! Your response (or lack of) may be the key to whether the looker becomes a serious bidder or not.
(jmjones6061 -- I agree with Reddeer. When I'm buying, even if I know that the $125 price is reasonable for the item, I will search for other auctions that start lower, and only bid on that high opening bid auction at last resort. So, if you're unlucky and someone else just happens to list an identical book the same week you list yours... theirs will probably get the bids if yours opens that high. In this case I don't think I'd tell the reserve in the auction. I might mention that the book has been appraised for $125-175, though -- or you could tell those who email, what the reserve is. With ebay's new rules on off-site deals, I think I would also indicate that I would not consider making any deals if the reserve is not met, but that you'd be happy to send them the new auction number if they'd like you to.)
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
posted on January 1, 2001 06:58:57 PM new
I'm with reddeer. As violetta's story indicates, not every potential bidder is knowledgeable enough about a particular type of widget to know if an opening bid is reasonable or outrageously high. If you can just get the chance to SHOW an uneducated bidder the item, you can show them why what you're asking is not only reasonable, but why they simply can't live without this item they may never knew existed before they stumbled on yours.
Watch master salesman Ron Popeil's infomercials: the price isn't revealed until after he's demonstrated the product's worth, and then he talks about the price a lot, noting what a bargain it is.
Now maybe I've spent too much of my life around old money, but "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" is a sure way of insulting and therefore chasing away a frugal bidder who might, with additional information, break the bank to get your item. Why run the risk of losing a bid unnecessarily?
"This widget was appraised last year at $1,000; reserve is set at a very modest $350" further impresses on the bidder what a bargain he could get if only he placed a bid! It's almost irresistible. So is "Well, you MIGHT bid high enough IF you actually KNEW anything about this item, but I'm certainly not going to help you out, buster" - but in a rather different way.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Jan 1, 2001 07:00 PM ]
posted on January 1, 2001 07:01:04 PM newThe thing that annoys me the most when shopping is merchandise that is not marked.
I understand what you're saying, and I agree with it. However, I also realize that bidding on eBay is participating in an auction and NOT "shopping". I realize this is not always the case, what with dutch auctions for retail merchandise, the new "Buy it Now" feature, etc., but the general rule is still that the price is NOT fixed and that the bidders determine the price through competition. Even if I as a seller reveal my reserve or simply don't use one, the bidders still don't know what the "real" price will be until the auction ends.
Perhaps the people who gripe the loudest about reserves simply don't realize that eBay is an auction and not a shopping mall?
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on January 1, 2001 07:24:25 PM new
Barry -- Whether it's in an auction format or not, buying on ebay IS shopping. With a non-reserve auction, you know the starting price and your bid will determine the ending price (for you). On a reserve auction you only know the "pretend" starting price. The reserve is the real starting price... and if you don't know what it is, that's the same as unmarked merchandise in a store. I have not participated in many real live auctions (and ebay is not that, either) but at the last one I went to, when there was a reserve the opening bid began with the reserve. If no one would bid that much, the item was taken back to the back room. I do not know whether that is standard procedure for live auctions, though.
(This is not to say I won't ever bid on reserve auctions. I had a pleasant surprise last week, when, knowing the book value on something plus my own personal limit for it, I bid on a reserve auction and got it for around 30% less than I anticipated having to pay for it. The key, in this case, was that I knew what the item was worth, and that it should be within my price range -- and it was.)
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
posted on January 1, 2001 07:33:27 PM new
BTW, as ebay is not a store, so too it is not a real auction. It is something else (perhaps in between).
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
posted on January 1, 2001 07:47:51 PM newVioletta ..... Just for the record, if you, or any bidder, sent me an email asking the reserve amount, and explained as you did above, why you were asking, I would glady give the amount to you.
I seldom get asked, due to the fact that the reserve is usually met early on, so maybe I'll rethink this? The last thing I want to do is turn a potential bidder away.
Thanks to both you & Kerryann for explaining why sometimes you both ask in advance.
posted on January 2, 2001 05:19:44 AM newVioletta: Different people expect different things from eBay, I guess, which is why some people hate reserves and others don't. I understand what you're saying, but I just happen not to agree with it.
I saw a rather rare item up for auction last night that interested me. It had a high starting bid of $995, but the item itself was worth anywhere from $1300-2000. At the time I saw it, it only had one bid and was sitting there at $995.
Now, this auction had no reserve. Using your analogy to "shopping", I should be able to say that I knew what the price was before I bid, right? Wrong. I placed a bid of $1325 and became the high bidder at $1125. In the last minute or two of the auction, however, 4 more bidders showed up and the item sold for over $1500. I wasn't "shopping," since I didn't know what the final price was going to be. All I was doing was indicating the most I was willing to pay for the item, and it wasn't until the very end that I found out whether that was enough or not. And the result would have been exactly the same if the item had a $1500 reserve and no other bidders -- either way, my bid wasn't enough to win the item, and that's all that really matters to me.
[At least with a reserve auction I know right away if my bid is insufficient to win. If my bid doesn't hit the reserve I don't have to wait around until the end of the auction to find out if I won or not.]
Now, I realize that you qualified your statement by saying "[w]ith a non-reserve auction, you know the starting price and your bid will determine the ending price (for you)." But to me, that is a distinction without a difference. The ending price is whatever the item ends up selling for, and that's the same for everyone. And, unlike our recent presidential election, that is a result which is not known until all the votes are counted.
Unless you are dealing with dutch auctions [which are essentially fixed price sales] or using the new "Buy it Now" feature, all items on eBay are "unmarked" with regard to their final sale price. And that's because it really is an auction and not a retail store. A non-reserve auction doesn't offer any certainty as to the final price as long as there are other potential bidders. At least with a reserve auction you can find out right away whether or not you even have a CHANCE of winning, and that's more certainty than I ever get with a non-reserve auction.
But, then again, that's just me...
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
[ edited by godzillatemple on Jan 2, 2001 05:22 AM ]
posted on January 2, 2001 06:33:47 AM new"At this point the next e-mail will contain the 'will you end the auction early' question."
Hmmm, yes well, if the seller complains, the bidder will catch hell from eBay.
If the seller reveals the reserve, it could drastically affect the final value of the item. This could happen if two last-second "snipe" bidders were involved.
If both bidders knew the reserve was $50, their last-second bid might be $60. They'd bid low, thinking they could get the item at a steal. If both bidders were unaware of the reserve price, they might both bid $200.
posted on January 2, 2001 02:17:10 PM new
Barry -- What is "shopping"? (LOL!)
I think that shopping is the act of looking at merchandise with the intent of possibly buying it. I would think that at least 95% of ebay bidders are shopping when they look at auctions. It doesn't necessarily mean that you buy everything you look at (or, even, that you know the price of everything you want to buy). It doesn't really matter what method is used to obtain the merchandise -- fixed price or bidding -- it is still "shopping."
In your example, you DID know the price -- as you said, it was $1300-2000. Then you set the amount within that range that you were willing to pay.
If you had won, you would have had to pay -- so either you were shopping or you were gambling (actually, I think bidding on online auctions is a bit of both). There is not much difference between losing a bid on ebay because you were outbid or the reserve wasn't met than when you look at something in a store and don't buy it because it costs too much (or somebody just bought the last one in stock). Maybe a different store has it for less, or maybe you have to wait until you have more money... or whatever. I don't know about you, but in our family we call the act of going to stores and comparing prices and looking at stuff we're interested in buying, "shopping" -- even if we don't buy anything.
A reserve is the minimum price the seller will accept for the item. If it is much more than I am willing to pay, why should I waste my time bidding on it? And when it's a cherished secret I just have to assume that it is much more than I'd be willing to pay...
It may just be me -- I don't like playing guessing games (I don't like playing games much anyway). If all sellers set realistic reserves it would probably not bother me as much. But what if an item is worth $45 and the reserve is $195 -- why should I even bother to play? I'll just keep looking for another seller who has one and is serious about selling it.
Edited to add: Although you like to point out that ebay is not like a retail store -- those who object to reserve auctions are not expecting it to be like a retail store, either. And I must reiterate that shopping on ebay is as different from a real auction as it is from a retail store. Really, it is a game!
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
[ edited by violetta on Jan 2, 2001 02:32 PM ]
posted on January 2, 2001 03:18:42 PM newI don't like playing guessing games
Me, either! Unfortunately, it's simply a fact of life when bidding at an auction. Even if I know what the seller's "asking price" is, I still have to guess what the final price will be. I don't know if there will be other bidders, how many other bidders there will be, or how much they are going to bid. Will there be a "sniper" with a huge bid at the last moment? Will there be a "newbie" who will bid over and over again in an attempt to overtake my bid by the least amount possible? There's really no way to tell for sure, and the most I can do is take my best guess. Sometimes I guess right, but quite often I am surprised at the way the bidding goes. I sure wish I knew up front what the selling price was going to be, or at the very least how much I would have to bid in order to win, but I don't. And that is true whether there is a reserve or not.
And that's why I just can't accept your "shopping" analogy. When you go to a store to buy an item, you expect to know the selling price up front, and I agree it's very annoying if the seller won't tell you or makes you guess. At an auction, however, the price is simply not fixed until the auction ends. And it doesn't matter if there is a reserve or not, either -- as long as there is the potential for other bidders to come along and bid against you, you are not "shopping". You are bidding what you think the item is worth and guessing whether that amount will be enough to buy the item.
I understand and share your frustration with not knowing the price of an item up front. And when I get too frustrated, I go to somebody's website and buy an item outright instead of bidding on a similar item on eBay. I recently did that with a $900 watch that kept coming up on eBay and getting bid to ridiculous heights [not the same exact watch each time, but the same model]. The starting bid was reasonable in each case, with no reserve, but who could have guessed that those other bidders would have driven the price up so high each time? So, instead of bidding at an auction and getting frustrated with all the guessing games inherently involved with the process, I decided to go shopping instead. I searched the Internet until I found a site selling the same watch, made the owner an offer, and bought it. No guessing involved whatsoever.
If you don't like reserves, that is your perogative. Different strokes, and all that. And I'm certainly not going to try and convince you that you SHOULD like them [although I really do think they provide a greater degree of certainty, simply because the moment you bid you know whether your bid is enough to win]. But I have trouble with you saying the reason you don't like reserves is because it means the item has no fixed selling price, or that it causes you to play guessing games.
Have a good one! I'm outta here for while....
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
