posted on January 28, 2001 09:40:28 PM new
Hi Everyone,
I just posted a reply to one of the threads here, but thought I would start a new thread based on my reply. Please don't get nasty with me, these are just my feelings on the way people are always looking for free stuff. I welcome critisism on these views...just be nice about it.
"The cost of doing business".
Most auction sellers wouldn't last a week in the "real world" selling. It seems everyone is looking for a "free" auction site, "free" posting software, "free" merchant accounts, "free" shipping supplies, free anything and everything and we are going to whine to no end if we have to pay one cent over from free. NOTHING is free. In the "real world" you have major expenses...i.e., building rent, electricity, equipment expenses, various taxes, zoning laws, advertising, telephone lines, etc...etc...etc. If some of these people tried to run a business the same way they try to sell on internet auctions sites...they would be laughed right out of business. The PayPal and BillPoint 1.9% fees (1.75% for BillPoint, I think) are very reasonable for a merchant account. When I first started selling on ebay, my wife and I looked at getting a regular merchant account so that we could accept VISA credit cards. The lowest charge we could find was 2.5% plus around 25 cents for each transaction. We found as high as 5% plus 35 cent per transaction. Some of them wanted up to $1000 for the software to take internet orders. And other services would not even let us take orders either over the phone or from the internet! Needless to say, we passed. When I found out about PayPal and BillPoint and their very competitive rates, I was just tickled pink. And PayPal...good going with your recent changes to your payment structure. It was long overdue.
eBay is going to raise their posting fees by 10 cents. eBay is still a bargain site to sell at. Has anyone ever posted an ad in your local paper to sell something? I have and it is expensive. I sell computer equipment on ebay and some of my end of auction fees are $5 to $10 on each item. To sell that item in the paper would cost me around $30 for a one week ad. True, I can post more than one item in the ad, but I live in a non-populated area and my experience has been that I won't sell all of my computer equipment in one week with an ad. I'd be lucky to sell one piece a week in the area I live in. Pierre was one of the lucky ones...he took an idea, made it huge, got rich with it, and got the American dream. And I'm happy helping him get his dream. eBay is providing me with a steady part-time income by running my computer business over the internet. I would never have sold 100 computers in November and just about every state in the US had it not been for eBay. I'm a PowerSeller (Gold) and proud of it! eBay has their rules that people don't like. But most of these rules are based on federal laws (especially copywrite laws). Laws that you as a seller (or buyer) do not need to think about everyday. I work for the federal government fulltime and if anyone knew what kind of regulations there are to follow and the fines (and prison sentences) that can be levied, you would then understand.
Sellers...if you don't want to offer your buyers the convenience of credit card payments. Don't. It is as simple as that. You are going to find many bidders that won't bid on your items anymore (remember...no bids = no sale). I won't bid unless it is something I "REALLY" want and even then... I've passed on items because of the not taking credit cards. I won't send a check or money order through the mail anymore. I won't do business with a supplier unless they take credit cards. Trust me...there are still businesses out there that need to be paid by a check. They need to get with the program and move their business ideas out of the 20th century (I think some are still stuck in the 19th) and into the 21st and auction sellers need to take the same attitude. I won't bid on auctions unless the shipping is clearly stated. Add a handling fee, but state the total shipping charge! I won't complain about a handling fee because I know what the cost of shipping supplies and getting the items to the post office or UPS is really like. If your shipping is outrageous or not listed, I'll take my business elsewhere.
If you are to this paragraph it must mean one of two things:
1. You either read the whole thing, or
2. You skipped everything to get to the end.
Sorry about my rant and raves, but I had to unload.
posted on January 29, 2001 12:41:27 AM new
You GO,cheerleader!
It's in the nature of man/woman to vent sometimes, to learn sometimes, to share and discourse on ways to increase profit. That's why this forum is here!
posted on January 29, 2001 05:54:13 AM new
Problem is, not everyone on eBay is "doing business."
eBay was founded as a "person to person" auction site and -- even though it increasingly is skewing "business to consumer" -- the "person to person" element remains. There are plenty of people who are selling simply to clear out their homes -- or simply because they like to trade in a particular area --- or because they like the comraderie with other people who buy/sell/trade in the same collectible.
One cannot expect everyone to operate under a single mold.
Also, take another look at the PayPal and Billpoint fees -- PayPal's credit card fee is 2.2%, not 1.9%. And Billpoint's credit card fee is really 2.25%, not 1.75%(due to the .5% mandatory auto deposit fee that's added to the 1.75%).
That's awfully close to merchant accounts available to internet sellers (even those who are just starting out in business). Mine runs 2.39% + 25 cents per transaction and no software required. There are even cheaper deals out there, too.
posted on January 29, 2001 06:14:34 AM new
The papers here have two price structures.
Personal ads are cheap but a two or three line business ad - in the same section - costs over $100.00.
posted on January 29, 2001 06:20:35 AM newYes, there are still people that are thinning out their collections, but they are not the people that are here on AW.
Yes, there are people here on AW who are thinning out their collections, or just getting rid of stuff cluttering up their homes --- and not making a profit.
The "online garage sale" element certainly still exists.
There are people who are strictly buyers here at AW, too.
AW is not a "one-size-fits-all" site, anymore than eBay is.
posted on January 29, 2001 06:26:18 AM new
vargas: You are right, there are people here on AW that are strictly buyers, but I doubt they are the people whining about Ebay fees and Paypal fees (since you don't pay fees when you buy) which was the subject of this thread.
posted on January 29, 2001 06:29:18 AM new
Count me as one of those "non-existant" non-business people here at AW. I use ebay to sell off (mostly) computer stuff that I no longer need due to not being used, obsolete, etc. Having 7 kids/4 computers, I actually have a fair amount of stuff recycling through the household. Ebay allows me to maintain my computers pretty much on a "net zero cash outflow" basis - by taking advantage of good deals on the net and selling old stuff, I can keep things going without spending a lot of money (which is important in my household!).
posted on January 29, 2001 06:33:09 AM new
captainkirk: I am glad that we have a personal seller to offer their perspective.
Does the increase in Ebay fees or fees for accepting PayPal or Billpoint have any affect on the well-being of your family. Or the ability to continue to upgrade your computers ?
A dime more or less to me is rounding, compared to the alternatives. I'm not a high volume seller trying to feed their family on the net income. I'm in a rural/low income-ish area, so I have no reasonable alternative to ebay - want ads/garage sales yield almost nothing for sales of used computer stuff.
And I still have a personal (no fee) paypal account, as my paypal sales are less than $100 per month.
posted on January 29, 2001 07:04:21 AM new
Thanks captainkirk.
Now for a business perspective:
I own a retail store and 22 websites. My monthly expenses are: $1347 rent, $150 telephone, $50 liability insurance, $200 utilities, $85 dumpster rental, $150 web hosting fees, $100 dsl for our store, $300 advertising, $125 accountant fees, $150 packing supplies, $200 computers and software, $45 telecheck fees, $15 CC terminal rental, $1,000 postage and shipping, $250 inbound freight. ($4,167 a month before I get paid)
The fees and fee increases have no effect on us either.
posted on January 29, 2001 07:18:00 AM new
Hi All,
Thanks for all the replies! I figured someone would have called me a jerk or something by now. LOL.
I'm sorry, but I don't feel any different towards the personal sellers versus the business seller. There are still fees that need to be paid. That personal seller can go down to their local paper and post an ad for anywhere from $30 to $100 per week. If you are like me and live in a rural area, I'm lucky if the ad will reach 50,000 people. On ebay, the ad could have a tendacy to reach millions and if the item is not overpriced at the start (I start just about all of my stuff at $1.00...even $1000 notebooks), the item will sell. Alot of time for more than you would expect. Or sell the stuff on a rummage sale and expect to get very little for it.
I was just tired of hearing all the whining from sellers about all the fees they have to pay when I wrote my above commentary. Welcome to the real world.
posted on January 29, 2001 08:35:35 AM new
I just had to stick my 2 cents in (but for you - it's free).
Though I agree with most of what you said, there are still some problems with the ebay model. If I put an ad in the paper, I pay once. When I list on ebay, I pay for the listing, then I pay again for the sale. If the winner turns out to be a deadbeat, I have to jump through hoops to get the FVF fees but I have still lost the listing fee. If I contact the second bidder, this is "fee avoidance" and ebay can NARU me. I can't place a link in my auction to my web site. So I feel that before ebay raises fees, they should improve their service and deal with the recurring deadbeats - just like any business.
Back to the original point. I used to complain on the Yahoo seller board that Y! customer service was terrible, the scammers abound, the scam auctions and deadbeat bidders with multiple IDs were ruining the site and Y! didnt seem to care. Many people kept jumping in to attack me and making statements like "Yahoo is number one!" Now that Y! is charging 20 cents a listing, suddenly these same people are whining and attacking Y!. So it seems that the only difference between the number one site and junk is 20 cents. It's time these folks realized that you get what you pay for.
Unfortunately, on the Net you dont even get that. All these services that start off free to get customers and then charge a fee have to realize that before you charge a fee, you have to give value. If the only reason folks use your service is because it's free, then just charging for it won't help. You have to make it worth the cost. Y! and others have yet to learn that.
posted on January 29, 2001 08:38:28 AM new
vargas: Good point. Perhaps they aren't that many whining sellers, but if they are a small group, they certainly can be vocal at times.
I consider myself to be a hobby seller. I have a large roomfull of stuff that I am slowly thinning down. I also like to go to estate sales and look for "bargains" which is how my house got to be such a mess in the first place.
Nevertheless, I run it like a business. I keep records in eBud and Quickbooks, pay sales tax and income tax. I don't expect any worthwhile service to be free, and I'm suspicious of anything that is. I realize that credit card processing costs money.
Although I am often disappointed with many of the policies and management decisions of eBay, I'm glad they are there and I think they would still be a bargain at twice the price.
posted on February 12, 2001 08:11:42 PM new
Like Captainkirk, I'm a personal seller. Ebay is just a hobby. I have a regular job, but it is true that ebay allows me to work slightly less often at my nursing job and spend more time at home with my children.
I don't make any money, I'm just recouping some of my initial investment. Of course, all ebay money is immediately reinvested in my family.
Yes. 5 ecommerce sites for our products, 3 search engines, 1 auction site, 2 adult sites, 1 finance site, 1 web hosting site, 1 home improvement site, and the rest are collectible related sites and directories. We currently lauch 1 to 3 new sites each month.
