posted on February 26, 2001 11:05:31 AM new
Some Sellers Making More on S&H Than Sales? - I think this is getting out of hand to some extent. I recently won the bids on several items that came to only a few dollars. Shipping and handling was over $3.00. When the package got here uninsured, the postal stamp on it was 75 cents. What do you sellers include that could raise the S&H from 75 cents in postage to over $3.00? These things were wrapped in a thin layer of newspaper and thrown in a small bubble wrap envelope!
posted on February 26, 2001 11:28:35 AM new
RebelGuns,
I will admit that occasionaly I do make more money on s/h than I do on the actual sale of the item. However, this is not in any sense a method to cheat any of my customers. Quite the opposite, this is a way to offer them my merchandise at the lowest price possible. You see, I start almost all of my auctions at the bare minimum for me to break even after fees (give or take $.50). My hopes are always to have the bid go up higher than the minimum. Of course... that does not always happen.
I charge a modest $2.50 to ship most items in a bubble mailer. There are some costs involved, but in the long run I am paid about $1.00 to ship each item. I feel justified in receiving this pay, because I do expend a LOT of time preparing the package, waiting in line, e-mail correspondance, etc... So yes, occasionally I will make $1.00 on the s/h, and $.50 on the item.(twice as much!) BUT... my bidder has won their item for just a few dollars over wholesale.
If I didn't conduct business this way, I would be in essence paying people to take merchandise away from me. Doesn't make much sense, does it? Of course, all my s/h charges are clearly stated in my auctions.... so if bidders don't like them... they don't have to bid. I could, of course increase my starting bid and lower my s/h charges... but I believe in keeping charges where they belong... not hiding them in other places. The starting bid contains all my costs for the item (item cost, e-bay fees) my s/h charge contains all my costs for delivering the item to the bidder (mailer, postage, time). In my opinion, this method is much more upfront.... and my bidders seem to agree.
posted on February 26, 2001 03:45:09 PM new
I like to charge one flat shipping fee for domestic orders regardless of the number of items purchased. It makes things much easier to calculate when sending invoices rather than getting quotes for multiple weights. I offer combine shipping at the one price and believe that it increases sales. Sure I make a little "handling" money when a bidder wins only one item. Perhaps $1. Not too much, much enough to help defray costs. However, I eat shipping when bidders win lets say 4 or more auctions. I think it is more than fair and perhaps some of these sellers do the same and only charge one flat fee. As long as it was in the auction terms, I don't think one can complain too much.
posted on February 26, 2001 04:03:29 PM new
I'm still new to all of this. Was I crazy for refunding shipping charges? I overestimated the weight on some boots. My auction stated 7.55 shipping, they actually shipped for 5.15. I wrote a check out and mailed it to him for 2.40. I didn't want him to think I was over charging. I am crazy.
When your at the end of your rope:
Tie a knot and hang on!
posted on February 26, 2001 04:18:49 PM new
Sellers dont make a profit on shipping the post office makes profit on shipping.
I never state postage in any of my listings any more I state Fixed shipping I sell basically five different type of Items each type more or less weights the same thing the weight of the packageing varys a little for each since I make my own custum fit boxes and mailers.
Even if postage is .50 to .80 less the my fixed price I make $000 profit on that it takes me 40 mins to make the custom fit packages for each item.
Thats less then $1.00 per hour for my custom services I would not object if my buyers wnat me to send out there item to like Mail boxes ECT to be packaged but they charge $11 and up to do just that pluss postage.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
[ edited by dman3 on Feb 26, 2001 04:21 PM ]
posted on February 26, 2001 04:20:17 PM new
connorscorner,
That was the RIGHT thing and honest way to a conduct business. I'm sure your customer will be most appreciate of you returning the difference. I betcha they may look for you in the future for some return business. Honest sellers are becoming far and few inbetween.
posted on February 26, 2001 04:34:43 PM new
Oh Avemom, that's going to make you popular here~~~
I think there's all stripes of sellers. I have to say I have met a lot of nice people.
posted on February 26, 2001 04:42:08 PM new
off the top of my head I have started a list of costs associated with shipping. Please feel free to add any costs that I have not mentioned here
WHAT ARE SOME OF THE COSTS INVOLVED IN SHIPPING?
It's not just the postage cost.
1. Shipping requires the cost of salaried staff completing several copies of paperwork. International packages requires approximately three times the paperwork.
2. Shipping requires the cost of salaried staff at the computer sending and reading emails. Shipping Internationally shipping traditionally requires three times the average time on the computer to work out the details.
3. Shipping requires the cost of packaging material like tape, boxes, labels, and tissue. International packages are usually packaged with more materials for protection.
4. Shipping requires the cost equipment like tape dispensers, tote bags, knives, cutting boards, scissors, rubber stamps, etc...
5. Shipping requires the cost of rents and utilities to store and implement all the materials, paperwork and equipment.
6. Shipping requires fees and fuel involved in transporting packages to the postal service. Or, paying a fee to have them picked up.
7. Shipping requires paying staffs' insurance, taxes, salaries, and benefits.
8. Shipping requires the cost of wear and tear on the computer, printer and other necessary peripherals.
posted on February 26, 2001 04:44:30 PM new
Capriole,
Should I be ducking as I say that? This board seems pretty opinionated on the not-so-nice side at times. Great to hear you've met some nice people along the way.
posted on February 26, 2001 04:59:55 PM new
avmom:
You say that the Honest thing for a seller to do is to refund the difference between the agreed upon shipping charge, and the postage paid to the post office. At least I think that's what you're saying.
So I guess that it's assumed that the seller gets his boxes and other shipping supplies for free, and has a free service that gets them to the post office. But never mind all that......
Let's turn the tables, and look at it from the other end.
You're a buyer. The auction says that shipping for the widget is $7.55. You pay, and the item arrives, but the postage on the box says $9.95 ($2.40 more than agreed via the terms).
Are you saying that the HONEST thing for the buyer to do is to send the seller another $2.40? And that not doing so is dishonest?
Would you send the seller more money than you agreed upon? Be honest, now......
I don't see it (in this case) as a matter of honest, or dishonest. If the shipping charge is clearly stated in the auction, and the buyer agrees to that charge, fine. If not, don't bid.
posted on February 26, 2001 05:05:05 PM new
pcalton
Your right on the money with what you are saying.
Wear and tear on every peice of your computer is one of a sellers Highest costs .
Lets not forget if you print your own postage the cost of postage labels ink catrages, postage scales.
cost me over $100 a month for packageing supplys some months I dont make $100 after cost on my items even.
some mmonths I have found myself in a rough spot paying $39 for one week computer rental cause my computer needed to go out for repairs and I need a computer to continue dealing with my buyers.
I have found my self haveing to put out as much a $25 for a provider to get on line because the ISP I use is down with out internet access cause someone digging got a phone line and My ISP was out of the picture for two or three days.
The speacail treatment some buyer requires for faster shipping I cant get to the PO I am at work I offer some one $5 to take the package to to the PO for me and get it in the mail for my buyer .
take a chance on a buyers Check shipping out there item 5 weeks later there check is returned the buyer dont anwser to email now your out your inventory the bid price and $20 return check fee as well.
Some say this is the cost of doing business and in some ways they are right but when it cost a guy $1000 to do this business some ones going to be paying these cost there is no money tree here or at any other sellers house or business .
posted on February 26, 2001 05:07:46 PM new
magazine guy,
Okay, you wanted my opinon. Now, that is a sellers screw up!
Yes, if it were me, I would NEVER ask my buyer for more money because of my negligence. I am simply addressing Connerscorner's situation where, he/she requested for actual postage for a pakage whereby it was overestimated. The buyer purchased shipping on that agreement. Whereby the seller has found his/her mistake, the RIGHT thing to do is to refund the difference!
Turning the tables doesn't make it any different. I am still the honest person that deem to be .
avmom (yes, there's still good & honest people around here!)
(not avmom on eBay)
posted on February 26, 2001 05:32:24 PM new
Sellers are welcome to charge whatever they like for shipping. I don't think you'll find a buyer that objects to sellers factoring in costs for gasoline, babysitters, rent, time, etc. What buyers do object to and will continue to object to is the underhanded and sneaky methods some sellers employ. These include:
1. Setting a fixed amount that is so close to priority rate many buyers think the seller is mailing priority "Shipping is $4.00."
2. Charging so much for shipping the buyer is sure that the package is coming 2nd day air.
Charge whatever you like, but why not be upfront about it? "Shipping will be $4.00, item will be mailed via USPS standard mail service." or Shipping cost will be actual postage + handling/materials charge of xxx.
posted on February 26, 2001 05:35:58 PM new
To the list of expenses ALLOWABLE to tag on to shipping, I say: CAT FOOD...My cat likes to jump in the boxes full of papers, packing the said paper down nice and tight. That is very helpful to me. So, I shall start charging for his cat food, and of course, the Vet bill, to keep cat in healthy condition so he can continue helping me pack...And the RENT, of course, for I offer the cat full lodging privileges: own bedroom, use of kitchen..NO PHONE though! I draw the line
******** Gosh Shosh!
posted on February 26, 2001 05:42:32 PM new
magazine_guy WROTE: Are you saying that the HONEST thing for the buyer to do is to send the seller another $2.40? And that not doing so is dishonest?
Would you send the seller more money than you agreed upon? Be honest, now......
-----
I have done this on three occasions in the past year. And I have also sent a refund to buyers when I overestimated the shipping cost by more than a dollar.
posted on February 26, 2001 05:51:36 PM new
magazine guy,
Connerscorner has a conscience. He/she stated $7.55 figuring it was actual postage and the intent was for that. After discovering overestimation, they freely wrote a check for the difference. I commend their action. It speaks volume.
I'm not sure where you are taking me as being the buyer ... therefore I can't comment on that.
While we on the topic of turning tables, how would you react if a seller refunded some money to you because of an overestimation? Would you be thankful you got a better deal or think the seller has a lame business practice?
Topic at hand, what seems dishonest is the fact that shipping/handling is disguised as something else.
avmom
(not avmom on eBay)
edited for typo ~ probably more ...
[ edited by avmom on Feb 26, 2001 05:53 PM ]
posted on February 26, 2001 05:52:43 PM new
I have under estimated shipping too many times. Once I paid $10. more than I charged. (that was ONE time ) but I have undercharged $2, $3,$4 and $5 because of heavy items. Never heard from buyers, in fact, those are the ones that never even left feedback ack
I charge the Priority rate, and state it in my Auction ad. I offer optional insurance, and when people 'opted' NOT to pay for it, sometime I paid it myself. Not anymore, since the insurance increase. Now, no one wants it, they don't even want Delivery Confirmation.
I figure now, with the reciept showing at least the zip code, I keep those, at last resort, to show I did ship item.
posted on February 26, 2001 09:11:06 PM new
I always prefer to use the $4.95 s/h rate for Priority mail. I don't try to make money on the s/h. I make money selling the item. Why would you want to make so little selling the item that you only make money by shipping it?
-Trey
***********************************
"If your mind can concieve it, and you believe it, then you probably can achieve it."
posted on February 26, 2001 11:02:06 PM new
hey the bottom line here is honesty isnt it ?
why should someone make a profit from shipping and handling ?
if a seller is going to charge " there " own price for s/h they should definetly " post " in their auctions the following:
this item will be at whatever i choose to charge winning bidder for s/h
i do not following honesty for " true " s/h charge i make up my own s/h price please note this before bidding on my item
it just may shock the " bleep " out of winning bidder its a suprise !
signed making a dishonest buck
*********************************
get real!!!
if a seller whats to make money from their item then set a damn reserve price !!
where are all the good decent honest humanbeings in this world !! are there none left !
maybe the reason someone just sent some of you the bidding/winning price
because you were ripping them of with
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
your make an extra$$$/dishonest s/h cost..
ever think of that ?
posted on February 27, 2001 03:15:11 AM newI honestly cannot believe the lack of customer service knowledge and total disrespect some sellers have to the people that put the bread and butter on our tables - the buyers.
It is pretty obvious to me that the buyers HATE the type of deceptive shipping practices and costs, and the profit-on-shipping schemes of so many of the sellers on ebay today.
The buyers you people are angering and that are not returning to ebay because of it are MY POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS!
Some of you sellers are reacting to the buyers concerns with downright nastiness at worst; with lack of understanding at best.
How would you folks like to be treated by a company / sales person the way you are treating our buyers here on this forum? You wouldn't be happy, I'm sure.
The buyers are saying over and over again that: 1) They DON'T LIKE a flat fee without explanation of what it covers EXACTLY
2) They DON'T LIKE profit made at the shipping end - please don't use the excuse that it is to keep your prices low "for the customer" - it is to keep your prices low to lure the customer to buy your product over someone who is making their profit on the item rather than the shipping, as it should be!
THESE ARE OUR CUSTOMERS SPEAKING! It would behoove us to listen to them and answer them WITH ALL THE COURTESY DUE OUR CUSTOMERS AND POTENTIAL CUSTOMERS, and to try to implement them in our sales.
Magazine Guy - as a rep. of the OAUA, I am very unhappy that the OAUA condones what the buyers obviously find unethical.
Has anyone here read the BIDPAY threads? The sellers are up in arms (including me) about the way we are being spoken to, that our concerns are not being addressed, that the answers are turse, unprofessional and arogant. Well, some sellers here are treating the buyers the same way. I can't understand this.
To all you buyers who have been spoken to with such obvious contempt and disrespect by the sellers on this thread - I feel the need to apologize for this and say that this is not the view of the ebay sellers that still keep their customers wishes and needs in mind when conducting their sales.
The only suggestion I can make is to bid on items where the shipping is described, or where you can get a concrete answer before the auction is over, of what the shipping covers. If you are happy with the answers you receive, then bid; if not, strike that seller from your list.
posted on February 27, 2001 03:34:56 AM new
I wanted to add this:
So many sellers are saying how things aren't what they used to be, sales are down, etc. etc.
Maybe we as a group should be looking at what WE are doing to cause this to happen; how sellers are turning customers away with our arogant "don't like it? don't bid!" attitudes.
I thought we had a representative body of ethical sellers are members - ie members of the On-line Auction Users Organization. (OAUA). Now I'm not sure if even that is true anymore.
BUYERS - ebay is getting to be a tough world for you folks. Write to sellers before you bid; get a feel for their level of customer service, their honesty, etc. Once you have found these sellers, use them as reference to other sellers. Most sellers buy as well, and know other ethical sellers. A seller with good customer service will not mind you asking lots of questions of ALL kinds!
[ edited by oxford on Feb 27, 2001 04:14 AM ]
posted on February 27, 2001 04:29:59 AM new
Let's see if this is really rational:
A. Seller makes a buck on the item
OR
B. Seller makes a buck on the shipping
Seller B is the slimeball that is chasing bidders away from eBay while Seller A is guaranteed sainthood by Rome.
I have a bridge in New York for sale real cheap and there's NO shipping charge. Such a deal!!! Should be no problem convincing the same folks who buy into the argument that Seller B is evil incarnate.
In case you are still not clear on the concept, sellers are in business to make a profit. They do not directly work in the employment of the bidder, eBay, people who complain on AW threads, or the Federal Government. If you don't like their auction policies or terms, hit the back button, turn off your computer and go buy the same stuff retail.
posted on February 27, 2001 04:44:01 AM new
mballai
Make a profit in any way possible? There are ethical and unethical ways of making a profit.
Seller A is indeed making the profit ethically.
Seller B *May* be using a profit-making scheme which makes it look like shipping is going to be priority and is not. IF THE BUYER THINKS THIS IS UNETHICAL, THAN IT IS!
In a sense, we are employed by our buyers. They are our customers, and we are providing a product that they are using their hard-earned dollars to purchase and allow us to make a reasonable profit.
The average buyer does not begrudge anyone from making a profit; what they clearly DO NOT LIKE is non-disclosure of the breakdown of shipping and handling.
i.e. Am I paying $4.00 for priority, or is it $1.00 for first class and $3.00 handling?
DISCLOSURE ensures that the bidder can then make an informed decision of whether they want to deal with this seller or not. If they are not keen on sellers that make their profit from shipping, then they can use the back button in an informed way.
I never once used terms like "devil incarnate" and "sainthood"; these are really, really odd exagerations.
posted on February 27, 2001 07:18:19 AM new
Hello All,
I invite and encourage buyers to email me with questions. I attempt to give buyers plenty of information in my listing descriptions without going overboard with details - it seems when there is too much to read, many details get missed.
I answer emails quickly and upon request I will supply any buyer with a breakdown of my shipping charges even though I do not consider it any of their business how I arrive at or justify the shipping costs I have described in the listings. But, I do supply a breakdown similar to the 8 costs of shipping that I have already posted in this thread.
A complete breakdown would include figures from my federal income tax, receipts from the shipping supply company, an accounting of the office and shipping department's time and costs spent on shipping matters, I would need to reveal the salaries of persons doing my shipping including a breakdown of their taxes, insurance and benefits, etc.....ad nauseam....I will Not provide any customer with that kind of specific and confidential information - and neither does any other business. Similarly, If I buy a widget at a garage sale for 25 cents and sell it at an auction for $10 I don't feel I have any duty or obligation to give the customer a breakdown of what my profit was.
I do agree that buyers should Not be deliberately deceived. I am Not sure that charging $4 shipping precludes that the seller is setting out to fool the buyers into thinking the package is coming by priority or assumes the buyer will swallow such a hook - I guess that potential is there and it would probably avoid some problems if the seller would explain "priority" or "1st class" or if the buyer is really concerned to ask "is that $4 for priority" or "is that $4 for 1st class." It is obvious deceit if the seller says "priority" and then ships 1st class
I DO NOT profit from shipping. I DO try to cover all my costs associated with shipping. But, I feel other sellers have all the right to profit from shipping if that is how they want to do business.
ack