posted on February 27, 2001 11:50:42 PM new
I want to thank the the wonderful sellers I have purchased from. With one exception you have all been honest,friendly and helpful. I got hooked on Ebay a couple of years ago. I like it because it is fun..the thrill of the hunt, finding something you can't find elsewhere. I just read the 9 pages about shipping and it almost makes me want to leave Ebay. Notice I said almost! Thank goodness I have not done business with the majority of the sellers on that thred! If anyone ever treated me the way some of them talk about the buyer...THEIR CUSTOMERS, the way you do not only would I not buy from you, but I would warn others. There will always good and bad buyers and sellers. Please remember the majority of the buyers don't begrudge a profit, but neither do they want to be "cheated" If buying and selling is going to be successful it requires RESPECT on both parties! If sellers & buyers spent as much time listening to each other, teaching and being helpful as they do complaining we wouldn't have half the problems occurring. I spend a lot of time reading this message board and it teaches me a lot. Not only does it help me learn how to be a good buyer and seller, it shows me who not to trust!
Back to the begining..a big Thank you to those I have purchased from, I have yet to read disrespectful postings by them..I must truely be blessed!
posted on February 28, 2001 04:45:47 AM new
buffalowoman
how exactly would you warn others. by using auction interference possibly???? thats against the rules so you would be stooping to the level of those you would be complaining about........every auction is different and there is nothing that can be done about it. if you have a bad experience just try and deal with it and move on....its not your place to "warn others" unless you do it thru neg. FB ONLY!!!
posted on February 28, 2001 07:39:46 AM new
Well said Buffalowoman! I talk up Ebay all the time. I really enjoy selling there and I am a regular buyer. First thing I check when I get to the description are the shipping/handling fees. If they seem reasonable THEN I will read the description. No use getting excited over a description only to find out that the seller expects me to put their child through college with the "handling fees." I'll pay a reasonable handling/supply fee but some of them are outrageous.
When I recommend to friends that they check out Ebay if they are looking for a specific item I also immediately warn them about the sellers who add on high shipping/handling charges. I explain that there are sellers who charge a fair price to ship an item and those are the ones they should bid on. They should really scrutinize the additional fees added on by others before bidding on the item.
Now, before you sellers who do add on high "handling fees" jump all over me I would like to say that I already have heard it all, I understand that packaging takes time, driving to the PO and standing in line takes time, wear and tear on your vehicle etc etc etc. I just do not feel like I should be paying for all that. A fair fee for supplies/handling if you do follow through with a well packaged item delivered in a timely manner is acceptable. As a seller I make about 25 to 50 cents extra on shipping. That goes to buying the boxes (I offer first class shipping or Priority - buyers choice) and bubble wrap/packaging. If I am not making enough money on the item then I stop selling it. It would never occur to me to raise shipping so I could make my money there.
posted on February 28, 2001 07:48:47 AM new
Anytime you buy a potato in a grocery store or a sweater at a clothing store --factored into the price is the cost of getting the item into the your shopping bag and out of the store. The clerk that rings it up, the gas that got it to the store, the cash register that completes the sale and the bag that it gets put into---but at a store there is only ONE PRICE--the purchase price. You don't see the 'HANDLING' cost itemized there --but they are there and you are paying for them and sometimes at quite an inflated amount.
When buying via the mail there are 2 prices that total the final purchase price. The shipping and the item price---but in the end there is the 'total' purchase price.
posted on February 28, 2001 07:59:51 AM newYou don't see the 'HANDLING' cost itemized there --but they are there and you are paying for them and sometimes at quite an inflated amount.
Explain it as many times as you wish- some will never get it. You can lead a bidder to an auction but you can't make them think.
posted on February 28, 2001 08:46:38 AM new
HI guys!!
well.. As a seller on ebay.. I do inflate my prices.. by 50 - 75 cents. Not for the handling.. but to cover my ebay fees. I sell shoes for a factory, and I am responsible for the ebay fee's. My fee's alone because I sell or should I say put on an average of 2-400 pairs of shoes a week.. run very very high. Since I do not receive but a small portion or percentage of the final bid value on each of the shoes... I have to make sure my ebay fee's are covered. And it didn't help that they raised the listing fee's either. All of my shoes.. no matter how heavy.. I ship for $6.98 I have only had one email that has complained about the shipping. The factory that I am contracted with charges an additional $1.00 handling fee for each pair of shoes that are sold and shipped internationally. I dont charge for my packaging.. or my driving.. or my time... but.. I do try to cover my ebay fee's.. that is all. Wish we could get pay=pal to lower their fee's.. LOL... I lose tons of money there...but I dont make up for that either. If there was a better way.. I would do it.. can you guys think of any thing?
posted on February 28, 2001 08:54:56 AM new
It seems that NOT SEEING the extra charge makes the purchase more palatable; possibly, it is the rubbing the buyer's noser into it which brings on anger. It is like saying "that's what I do, that's what I want, and the h---l with you".
I left France many and many years ago, but when I still lived there, the "sales tax" was built-into the total price, so one paid and KNEW there was sales tax, but did not see the break-down. I don't know now...
Perhaps building all the costs into the item and selling it with no reserve might make it more acceptable.
If I were to go to Macys and buy a cashemere sweater, I don't want to know how much the shipping was, how much the Pres of the company makes, how much commission the sales person gets...
Perhaps, it might be called wearing blinders, but it certainly makes the sale more friendly to not know it all JMHO
******** Gosh Shosh!
posted on February 28, 2001 09:13:29 AM newIf I were to go to Macys and buy a cashemere sweater, I don't want to know how much the shipping was, how much the Pres of the company makes, how much commission the sales person gets...
And you don't have to, because the store sets the price.
In an auction, the buyer sets the price, and raising the opening bid on a $20 item from $1 to $2 in no way assures you that the ending price is going to be a dollar higher. In order to recover an additional dollar for increased shipping costs, that amount must be listed separate from the sales price.
Unless, of course, you are running fixed price sales disguised as auctions- you know, the kind where you price the opening bid at a level where you are happy if you only get that one bid. Or you are not interested in whether or not you are making any money on your sales.
I don't know why this is such a hard concept to understand.
posted on February 28, 2001 09:24:41 AM new Hey guys, don't take what I said wrong. I am not complaining! I simply wanted to say thank you to all the great sellers I have purchased from and simply state that we need to treat each other with respect!
I am not saying anything about prices, etc.. just if we all listen to each other then everyone gets what they want and need!
Anyone ever here of working togeather? If sellers listen to buyers then they understand more of what they expect and if the buyers listen to the seller's they will know more of what is involved.
I was refering to the name calling and treating buyers like they are not worthy of spending their hard earned money on what the seller is offering. This only applies to a few..not all.
Nuff said...
posted on February 28, 2001 09:51:18 AM new
fortunately, most sellers who stick it to or cheat buyers don't last very long. they get too many negative feedbacks, they switch userids often, they change email addresses and do whatever they can to stay ahead of and trick the buyers.
Buyers are getting more savvy and careful. Buyers are looking at feedback more, reading and making sure they understand the terms of service before they bid, asking questions before they bid (not my favorite thing to do and I'll often pass up on the auction instead), learning to navigate themselves through the site to find the better deals, and consequently getting more satisfaction.
It has been a very long time since I have not been satisfied with a seller. I think that says a lot about the choices I make as well as the high standard of sellers that are out there. I don't let the bad-apple sellers spoil my buying, I've learned how to spot them and I don't bid.
Of course, there is no full proof way to avoid bad sellers but there are a few guidelines I follow in making my choices:
1. I always check the sellers feedback before bidding. I read both positive and negative to see what has been happening with the seller.
2. I read all the description before bidding. The more details the better so I don't have to ask questions.
a. I make sure that the shipping cost is in line with the way the seller tells me they will ship.
b. I add the shipping cost to my bid and make sure that total cost is what I am willing to pay.
c. I carefully read the description to make sure I am clear of the condition of the item(s).
d. I make sure that the form of payments accepted by the seller is ok with me.
e. I look over the pictures if available and make sure I am getting what I am think I am getting.
f. I feel more confident in sellers who give some contact information in the description.
g. etc....
3. I am always impressed with quick email responses, but I understand some sellers are part time an only
answer emails on a schedule.
4. I look for detailed emails with completion instructions from the seller.
a. if there are surprised costs or conditions I usually call off the transaction.
b. I prefer the seller to give me all the information I need to complete the transaction in the first email.
5. I prefer to get my feedback when I have made payment but I will accept a sellers terms of giving me feedback after I have received and am satisfied with item(s).
I am sure you all can think of many more and I could too but I leaving for lunch. Have a nice day.
posted on February 28, 2001 09:53:59 AM new"Please remember the majority of the buyers don't begrudge a profit, but neither do they want to be "cheated" If buying and selling is going to be successful it requires RESPECT on both parties!"
This opens up an interesting topic:
Exactly what would you consider a fair profit? 10%, 25%, 50% ??? Should the shipping they charge be considered part of their profit?????
Exactly what would you consider being "cheated"?????
I think the answers to those are probably as varied as we are!
I am mostly a buyer. I sell occasionally and because I am selling from a collection I already own, I really do not make a profit. However, I do free up money, thin out my collection and am able to add new variety.
Works for me!
What do I consider a fair profit for a seller? I haven't a clue. All I know is the bottom line from my side: How much am I willing to pay (including the shipping).
What do I consider "cheated"? I feel I am cheated, if I am promised an item in mint condition and I do not get an item in mint condition and the seller refuses to refund.
I would feel cheated if I never received my item and the seller has "vanished".
As to shipping: I insist on insurance on all my purchases. I am willing to pay for it and if I receive an item that is NOT actually insured through the USPS AFTER I paid for it, I feel cheated.
posted on February 28, 2001 10:17:27 AM new
As a seller I state the postage rate on my auctions. I sell items all shapes and sizes. I do not charge a handling fee and I use all new materials. I seldom have a buyer question my rates. This may not work for everyone but it works for me.
As a buyer I would like to see the actual shipping fee in the auction. I do not care if you charge a handling fee and I do not want to see a break down of it. Just put a rate and I will choose to bid or not. If I have questions I will e-mail before I bid.
Do not send me a dirty box though a strong used one is fine. Do not send me dirty packaging material like used paper towels or your junk mail including your Publishers Clearing House reject letters to pad the box.
Do not threaten me with negative feedback in your EOA letter. Just because someone else was a jerk do not assume that I am one. Do not tell me about all your causes or send me your sister's auctions or your religious crappola.
Keep it simple and keep it professional. Friendly is fine.
posted on February 28, 2001 10:53:06 AM newExactly what would you consider a fair profit?
Well, speaking just for myself here, I don't begrudge a seller ANY amount of profit whatsoever. If they can get $20, 50%, 100% or 1000%, more power to them! And this is especially true when those profits are achieved by having multiple bidders competing against each other and driving the price up. That's what auctions are all about, and it's always exciting to see an item "take off". I certainly don't begrudge the seller for benefiting from the auction process when it works the way it is supposed to! If a seller lists a widget for $9.99 and it ends up selling for $400, I don't think the seller is "bad" or "greedy" for making a huge profit. Of course, it also helps that I am a seller as well as a bidder, so I guess I can see it from both perspectives.
Exactly what would you consider being "cheated"?????
Again, just speaking for myself, the only thing that REALLY bugs me is being lied to or deceived in some way. When a seller adds a "handling" charge I am annoyed, but the mere fact that they do so doesn't make me feel "cheated", since it is at least stated in their terms. What makes me feel "cheated" is when a seller avoids using the term "handling" so as not to annoy bidders, and instead adds a "shipping" charge that does not actually reflect the cost of shipping. When they make the bidder THINK that they are getting a well wrapped package sent by Priority Mail or other more expensive service, and then send the item in a plain enevleope with a $0.77 stamp instead.
Let me make it clear... I don't like handling charges, and I don't think they belong on eBay. But I can live with them. I'll keep complaining about them in the hopes that some sellers will get the point and stop using them, but I can still live with them. What I can't deal with, though, are the sellers who don't even have the integrity to TELL the bidders that they are being charged a handling fee. THAT'S when I feel "cheated", and ONLY then.
Thanks for asking.
Regards,
Barry
---
The opinions expressed above are for comparison purposes only. Your mileage may vary....
posted on February 28, 2001 11:03:19 AM newM.P. You are absolutely right...
I was just trying to look at it in another manner.
On a personal basis, I do not believe in Handling fees, unless I really, REALLY want the item; then I can make an exception. That is only MY preference; but I do try to look at all the angles.
I do not want to pay for seller's phone, utilities, gas and all that stuff...
When I sell, ACTUAL shipping cost is just that, not a penny more nor less...Actual Cost as shown on the Online Postal Calculator.
BTW: I am noticing an awful lot of listings with "Buyer Pays Shipping"...nothing else. Not too conducive to buying, in my opinion.
posted on February 28, 2001 11:18:30 AM new
How ever a seller does it, they should not be losing profit. Buyers and sellers need to do the math and determine what is a fair value for what they buy and sell. It ain't rocket science.
I do not want to pay for seller's phone, utilities, gas and all that stuff...
Of course, nobody wants to. The trouble is- if sellers are not covering their expenses, they won't remain sellers for long.
I suppose if one is able to depend on a constantly changing cast of hobby sellers getting rid of extras from their collections, who have no expectation of making a profit, the holy grail of "no handling charges" is obtainable.
If, however, one is buying from sellers who are running businesses, finding auctions with no handling charges will be a much more difficult task. Not impossible- just harder.
posted on February 28, 2001 12:54:47 PM new
there are plenty of hobby sellers who do not care if they cover their costs associated with shipping. in the beginning, I shipped things for actual shipping cost (postage only). but, income tax time for the year of 1998 revealed to me that I had lost thousands of dollars in shipping!!!
I was 50 years old and recently laid off from a company. I made a decision to do the Internet business full time to try and make a living for my family. Because the profit margin is low on most of the items I sell, I realized that I would need to change my shipping charges to include my costs of shipping.
I realize that some buyers would prefer to buy from sellers who charge "actual shipping (postage)" and I regret losing their business if they choose not to buy from me because of that.
But, it was a pragmatic and logical business decision I had to make. I created a fair formula that covers most of my expenses associated with shipping and allows buyers the ability to save on shipping by bundling multiple items in the same package.
Even with shipping costs a little higher than actual, I have a very long list of very satisfied customers. They realize I have expenses I must cover in order to stay in business. The customers that regularly buy from me have found that my inventory is very extensive and that I usually have the item(s) they are looking and I provide excellent customer service and a solid guarantee of satisfaction. Many savvy buyers realize that full-time sellers like myself will in the long run provide long term, consistent and dependable services and products.
Other sellers may have product lines with a higher profit range than most of the items I sell. Those sellers can make up the shipping cost difference in the final sales price of the item. Also, some full time sellers who charge only actual shipping costs may be on the beginning of a learning curve and will some day discover like I did that continued business operations will require covering more of the costs of shipping. I am constantly looking for better sources and prices for the products that sell. Some sellers already have better sources and prices on similar items and can make up the shipping cost difference when I can't.
I have began to add different product lines with a better profit margin and the shipping cost on those items are much closer to the actual postage because I am making up the difference in the final sales price.
The simple matter of facts are that I can't compete on shipping prices with the hobbyist or liquidator who doesn't care or know about covering expenses associated with shipping. I can't compete on shipping prices with the sellers who buy in much large quantities at lower prices and who make up shipping expenses in the final sales price. I can't compete on shipping prices with sellers who lure buyers with low shipping prices and then don't deliver, sell fake or stolen items, or who deliver damaged items and won't give refunds.
I can compete when it comes to having a large inventory that buyers can choose from - an important matter to take into consideration when buyers can save on shipping when we ship multiple items in the same package paying nothing extra for shipping. Hobbyist and liquidators rarely have the stocked the variety of products that I have. I can compete when it comes to finding hard to find items for my customers. I can compete when it comes to an extensive track record of excellent customer service (check my feedback from customers all over the world on Amazon.com). I can compete when it comes to satisfaction guarantees, sending customers newsletters, excellent packaging with high-quality acid-free tissue, daily shipping (except Sunday), payment plans, providing a wide variety of payment options, and quick email responses with a professional approach.
I don't not consider myself an average seller looking for the average customer. I consider myself a top notch seller and sell mostly to folks who appreciate my honesty, professional service and exceptional products that buyers can feel confident in.
We recommend that all buyers study the TOS of sellers and determine for themselves if the final sales price plus the shipping cost is a sum they are willing to pay for the item(s). There are still some good sellers who charge only actual shipping (postage only) and we encourage buyers to compare prices, the consistent quality of the products, the packaging quality, the customer service, the return policy, etc... Compare it all with ours and make their buying experience the best that it can be.
posted on February 28, 2001 12:58:47 PM new
The "bouncy" guy came from another thred called "do you want more smilies"
"Fair profit" anything the seller can get over the cost of the item. It boils down to what the market is.
It really means anything they can make with an honest deal. Like others I feel cheated if item is not as described, or the packing is poor, but the shipping and handleing is high. I believe in getting what I pay for. If I am paying a "high" shipping fee, I expect a neatly wrapped and well protected package. Being cheated is paying for something you are not getting...period! Profit should be from the item, not the shipping and I hope that does not start another long thread like the one I read where the sellers were putting down the buyers for complaining about shody packing and shipping.
I too read everything in the posting and most the time I do have to email the seller about shipping. Not because of cost, but I never have anything shipped to my address of record. It always goes to my work address, that way there is no chance it will get stolen or left outside in the weather. I do this with all my purchases on and off Ebay.
We live in the country and FedX and UPS both leave things outside. I once picked an fedex envelope up that was laying in the middle of our driveway that contained a $34,000 check! And can you imagine UPS leaving a $1,400 computer on the purch in the rain!
posted on February 28, 2001 01:55:27 PM newBuyers Please Read!
>>Thank goodness I have not done business with the majority of the sellers on that thred! If anyone ever treated me the way some of them talk about the buyer...THEIR CUSTOMERS, the way you do not only would I not buy from you, but I would warn others.<<
>>I am not complaining! I simply wanted to say thank you to all the great sellers I have purchased from....<<
I wouldn't call it complaining, I'd call it insulting. Even though it's not directed at an individual poster, it is directed at a group of posters. Why is it that anyone who charges "$4 shipping and handling" is labeled a SCAM artist or a crook? I'm amazed at the mind-reading abilities of some buyers who claim to know what's in the hearts and minds of sellers. I pity them for the mistaken notion that the world is out to rip them off.
An auction format is not a retail or fixed-price format. The buyers set the price. The shipping and handling fees (if any) go to cover the basic listing and packaging costs (including maintaining customer records, providing support, etc.). There is no way to build these costs into the final value of the item.
When faced with this absolute fact, the complainers' response overwhelmingly seems to be, "well then, sell something else that gives you more profit." That kind of dumb, non-sequeteur thinking just demonstrates the mentality of buyers who simply don't want to pay a fair price. We all know what eBay is about. It's about shopping for the best bargain. When I find a cheap item at eBay, the last thing on my mind is how much profit the seller is making. That's the seller's problem!
Sellers who choose to sell low-priced items can't afford to lose money on shipping. Maybe some sellers are cleaning out their attic, and don't mind losing a few dollars on shipping. I can't afford that luxury.
Am I a cheat because I charge a handling fee? This week I had a $13 item that was bid up to over $50. After the auction, the winner's wife contacted me and said, "I bought one of these from you already but my husband didn't know." I'm not going to hold the bidder to the contract, and I'll probably end up eating the $5 in eBay fees because I don't want to cause trouble for the customer. It's no big deal. On the other hand, I will hold all my customers to my handling fee, which covers bona fide expenses.
Buyers, it's time to stop acting like children and take some responsibility for your purchases. If you read "shipping is $5" and agree to that by bidding, don't complain about it afterwards. If you don't want to pay the piper, then don't expect to dance. To agree to a contract, and then complain about the terms afterwards is inexcusable. It's time to grow up!
posted on February 28, 2001 09:27:42 PM new
I guess my point was not understood. I am not complaining about fees! You said that buyers need to grow up and that was my exact point about the sellers in that thread. My complaint was the way they talked about buyers..just as the last comment made did. I don't need to grow up, I have respect for my fellow man and I treat others as I like to be treated. I just don't think that 9 pages of "slamming" the people that are buying the products is a respectful thing to do. This is not about the FEES!
this is about respect for each other.
[ edited by buffalowoman on Feb 28, 2001 09:30 PM ]
posted on February 28, 2001 09:57:38 PM new
I love to provide 100% customer service. I am glad I am hearing from a real live customer rather than an angry AW seller/buyer user.
-Trey
***********************************
"If your mind can concieve it, and you believe it, then you probably can achieve it."
JMHO
Hey guys, don't take what I said wrong. I am not complaining! I simply wanted to say thank you to all the great sellers I have purchased from and simply state that we need to treat each other with respect!
this is about respect for each other.