posted on April 17, 2001 09:10:14 PM new
It's really quite simple. If you bid on an auction you are accepting the seller's terms. If the terms are vague and you still bid without asking for and receiving clarification, you STILL accept the terms. There is no other logical way to look at the situation.
posted on April 17, 2001 09:24:17 PM new
morgantown,
Please delete your first line, it isn't necessary to this conversation.
You have 30 minutes to make the edit and if you can't get it done I will have to delete it and if I delete the first post in a thread, unfortunately the whole thread goes.
posted on April 17, 2001 09:28:41 PM new
And quit shopping the "going going gone list". No wonder you don't get answers before the auction ends. No wonder you skipped reading the TOS. Shop the "new today list", book mark auctions you are interested in, ask questions, THINK before you bid (should be easy, you'll have at LEAST 2 days), Look at the auction AGAIN. Then SNIPE.
posted on April 17, 2001 09:55:44 PM new
My question is:
If seller checks the "Buyer Pays Actual Shipping" box..what does ACTUAL mean?
Just the USPS postage?
OR
What it actually cost to mail the item (boxes, bubblewrap and postage)?
My Webster's defines "Actual" as "existing in fact or reality.
USPS won't take my item & just apply a stamp to it. Therefore it must be boxed or wrapped or stuck in an envelope. Assuming I don't dumpster dive for a living, these means I have to buy them. That's a FACT.
If I have to purchase a box, bubblewrap, peanuts & pay postage for the item to be shipped, then shouldn't that be considered "Actual" shipping?
Is that then considered a "handling" fee since it's not strictly the amount I hand over to USPS for the postage? Or is it considered part of the shipping cost?
edited because I went postal & spelled it wrong.
[ edited by eventer on Apr 17, 2001 10:02 PM ]
posted on April 17, 2001 10:10:50 PM new
camachinist:
>Where's microbes?....
Hi. Look up ^^^
>I haven't met a savvy business person yet who hasn't tried dodging a fee or two
We aren't going to pay any more of them than we HAVE to. eBay allows handling fees. They don't allow you to charge so much that that is where your profit is coming from. If you are covering handling expenses INCLUDING labor with YOUR handling fees, none of that is "PROFIT". We get a minumum of $3.00 handling on every shipment. (Notice I said shipment, not item, I am more than happy to consolidate shipping) Anything that is a pain in the butt to pack, we get more....
What's it mean to the buyer? It means that all other things being equal, if I have an identical item to a seller that charges "postage only", bid $3.00 less on mine, or $3.00 more on his. Same Deal.
Nothing "undisclosed" about how I write my listings, you know (if you bother to read) that I'm getting UPS + $3.00 (or what ever I charge for packing & handling). If that makes you hit the back button, oh well.
To be honest, when I buy something, I DO want to know what I will be charged, and before I bid, I will either find out, or not bid.
Oh, as much as I charge to pack up a boat motor, email me and tell me you want to pick it up in person, you just made me happy! Trust me, that $25 for packing that boat motor is NOT where the profit was!
>If seller checks the "Buyer Pays Actual Shipping" box..what does ACTUAL mean?
I hate that box, and NEVER use it. I use the one that says "See Item Description". I wish ebay would do away with that box. That box has caused more problems between buyers and sellers than anything ebay ever did. I can "see it" both ways, and that's the problem with it.
>boxed or wrapped or stuck in an envelope. Assuming I don't dumpster dive for a living, these means I have to buy them. That's a FACT.
And even if you DO go dumpster diving, Time is Money. Thats a FACT. What is your time worth?
posted on April 17, 2001 10:39:27 PM new
Microbes,
I hate that term as well because it leads to people thinking that the only cost associated with shipping are the stamps you on the package.
Unless the Shipping Material Fairy magically appears at one's house each week bestowing free packing material w/o the seller having to either pay for it or dive for it, then there's more to the cost than just the stamps.
IMO, "ACTUAL Shipping" should include the cost of the material and the stamps.
So when the buyer pays $2.00 and gets a box with $1.50 in stamps on it, they need to remember that the box cost money, the peanuts cost money, the bubble wrap cost money & there's more to shipping costs than just the stamps.
posted on April 18, 2001 01:47:16 PM neweventer, I have to vote the other way .
As a buyer only, when I see the shipping lines says "Buyer Pays Actual Shipping". I assume it means, I pay what the postage is. If a sellers wants me to pay for everything else it should come under their TOS as "Handling Fee".
Greg
p.s. I agree eBay should eliminate this shipping description.
posted on April 18, 2001 02:11:07 PM new
Where is that darn shipping fairy when you need her anyway?
And the dish washing fairy
and the bed making fairy
and the bathroom cleaning fairy....
and....and...and.... ;0)
Exactly my point...two of us can read it & come up with different assumptions & opinions on what it means. Which basically means the darn thing is meaningless unless ebay defines it one way or another.
As long as the descriptions are open to interpretation, there are going to be assumptions made & one of us is going to be unhappy.
As long as the descriptions are open to interpretation, there are going to be assumptions made & one of us is going to be unhappy.
Makes me wonder why one would choose to assume that "actual shipping" means "actual postage only"- that seems like an almost foolproof way of guaranteeing regular disappointment.
If one must assume anything, one should assume that "actual shipping" means "material cost and handling included"- that way, if you are surprised, it is less likely to be an unwelcome one.
posted on April 18, 2001 05:11:28 PM new
mrpotatoheadd,
Are you enjoying all our shipping threads? These things must come in clusters.
I agree with you. The entire terminology is poor because at first glance, a buyer might interpret it as "actual POSTAGE cost" while a seller might interpret it as "actual shipping (postage, box & material) costs.
Each thinks they are right & the other is wrong. A perfect recipe for disaster & misunderstanding.
This terminology is evil & should be destroyed & replaced with something less open to interpretation on both sides.
I always assume the worst, then I'm rarely disappointed.
posted on April 18, 2001 05:16:12 PM newI always assume the worst, then I'm rarely disappointed.
Words to live by. In the category I usually buy in, a low shipping charge is $1, average is around $2, and the highest seen is about $5. When I see an item that says "actual shipping", I figure it will be $5. Usually, it's less, and I'm rarely (if ever) disappointed.
posted on April 18, 2001 05:37:30 PM new
han*dling (noun)
First appeared before 12th Century
1 a : the action of one that handles something
b : a process by which something is handled in a commercial transaction; especially : the packaging and shipping of an object or material (as to a consumer)
2 : the manner in which something is treated (as in a musical, literary, or art work)
According to this dictionary definition, a handling fee would apply to the PROCESS of packaging and shipping not to the MATERIALS used.
posted on April 18, 2001 05:47:32 PM neweventer I collect cufflinks. I have had wonderful packing done with a $2.00 shipping fee. The other day I paid $5.00 for Shipping and handling and there were four sets of cufflinks dropped in a flimsy bubble mailer with NO wrapping and shipped for $.73. When I brought this to the sellers attention, the seller said he would have a talk with his "packer".
It really depends on the seller. Some will cut any corner to make a buck, others are in it for the long haul and want the return buyers. Each to his own.
auctionee, since the seller has to "handle" the packing material, I figure that goes with the handling fee
posted on April 18, 2001 05:59:51 PM newsince the seller has to "handle" the packing material, I figure that goes with the handling fee
First, "handling the packaging" would be the labor not the cost of the packaging itself.
Second, you also have to "handle" the item in the same way that you "handle" the packaging. Does that mean the price of the item should be included in the handling fee?
I've found the packing to be pretty consistent, regardless the shipping charge. Spending more rarely means getting "better" packing, but in just about every case, it has been adequate.
The items I buy are rather hard to damage, though- if I were buying fragile items, I'm sure the results from differences in packing quality would be more apparent.
posted on April 18, 2001 06:50:03 PM new
I've got a better solution. How about: those of you who sell stuff under 4 pounds that fits inside a priority box and who mail USPS to US destinations (NOT those of you who inevitably pipe up to exclaim that you use UPS and need a zip code, or that you're shipping a Victorian loveseat to Antarctica and need to get a post office estimate first) just BUY A DAMN SCALE and TELL US BUYERS HOW MUCH IT'S GONNA COST US SO WE DON'T HAVE TO EMAIL YOU!!!!!
Christ, is it really that difficult given the parameters I listed? I've been doing this for many hundreds of transactions on all kinds of items from auto parts to books to fragile glass and have yet to list ANY auction WITHIN those simple parameters that could NOT be assigned a shipping rate. On the *rare* occasions I wasn't sure about the weight because I did not have the proper packing material yet, I made my best guess and wrote in my description that shipping would be approximately this amount, but might be slightly higher or lower subject to the packing and that by bidding they accepted that.
WHAT A COINCIDENCE....I HAVE NEVER ***ONCE*** HAD ANY BIDDER WRITE ME LATER WHINING ABOUT SHIPPING RATES!!! GEE I WONDER WHY???
AGAIN, if you are shipping outside those parameters, FINE, we don't need your reasons *again*. Thanks for NOT restating them for the umpteenth time!
BUT, to the rest of you, quit whining about supposed laziness of bidders...cuz apparently....***You don't want to do the extra work either.****
And no, I don't advocate complaining AFTER the auction is over!
But I do feel that if you don't list your shipping and handling, YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW!
posted on May 3, 2001 11:05:36 AM new
I've been searching for this "thingee" and thought I found one to bid on.
When I looked for the shipping charges, this is what I found. I changed some words, so I hope it's anonymous enough for the monitors.
My personal opinion is that $5 (and it could be higher) on top of shipping is gouging. But I'm glad it is disclosed up front, as I took it to be a warning and steered clear. I did not bid.
We ship through the USPO using priority mail or media mail. Winning bidder pays actual shipping & optional insurance costs + handling. Handling & material charges will be added to shipping charges. Handling & material charges start at $2.50 and go up - depending on the package size, amt. of time to pack, and amt. of packing materials required. Average handling & material charge is at least $5.00. Special shipping and handling charges for books. Shipping is calculated by weight NOT cost. We use bubble wrap, foam peanuts and 3" reinforced tape. We also have to pay a man to take items to post office. We try to save money where possible by shipping multiple items together. If insurance is paid for we will send the claim check to the bidder if a claim has to be filed. Filing of any claims will be the responsibility of the bidder.
posted on May 3, 2001 11:33:45 AM new
IMO, if the auction isn't explicit about
"handling" charges then it's implicit that
there are none.
Put differently, buyers should never, ever be surprised with additional charges.
If a seller plans on recouping expenses (ebay fees, materials, time or whatever) then seller need to be explicit about
a "handling fee" which is over and above
whatever the shipping charge is.
posted on May 3, 2001 12:25:47 PM new
FWIW "ACTUAL" in eBayese means only the postage. This isn't spelled out in the official eBay lexicon, but has been on the eBay discussion forums by various eBay personnel.
The idea of using this term is much the same as it is on Half.com where you only get a postage allotment to send your tome to the customer. What eBay (aka Half) is hoping for is that you put a higher starting or selling amount on your item to cover materials and handling. In this way, they get a bigger listing and/or FVF (or Half commission).
