ravensrealm
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posted on April 18, 2001 08:20:16 PM new
I ship priority mail exclusively, and I've been using delivery confirmation, but I'm sick to death of dealing with all the slips of paper and extra book keeping. Can anyone offer up any reason why I should continue to use DC? Has it been helpful for specific transactions? Anything would be helpful!
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tomwiii
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posted on April 18, 2001 08:37:31 PM new
DC has saved my butt 4 times...
PLUS it is necessary as proof for PayPal or BillPoint
PLUS you CAN GET IT FREE for p-MAIL from:
www.endicia.com
a stamps.com wannabe!
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dubyasdaman
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posted on April 18, 2001 08:40:34 PM new
Well, it has saved my bacon in court. So I guess I would have to say it's worth the hassle.
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misscandle
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posted on April 18, 2001 08:49:58 PM new
I send the DC number to the buyer in my shipment notification. I have NEVER had a "Where's my widget?" e-mail from anyone. That alone is worth the price for me.
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yeager
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posted on April 18, 2001 08:51:00 PM new
I use it all the time and I build it into the cost of shipping. Instead of $4.00, it's 4.35. As the other poster said, it's a requirement of Paypal for verifacation of shipping in the case of a non shipping claim is made against you.
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paypaldamon
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posted on April 18, 2001 09:42:15 PM new
Hi,
If you are using PayPal---Delivery Confirmation, or a tracking method like it, is one of the requirements of the Seller Protection Program (to protect against charge backs).
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mcbrunnhilde
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posted on April 18, 2001 10:38:21 PM new
Since USPS Delivery Confirmation seems to be iffy at times (according to these threads), you might want to investigate FedEx Ground/Fed Ex Home Delivery if your items weigh more than 4 or 5 pounds. All packages are tracked, and there's no extra charge for that or the first $100 of insurance. If you're in an area they serve, you might be able to get an account and then they'd pick up from you.
Without eBay, I might have a real life... 
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litlux
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posted on April 18, 2001 10:46:36 PM new
Delivery confirmation is a sellers best friend. Some may not like it, but it provides proof of shipment, virtually eliminates false non-delivery claims, and if you do it electronically, costs nothing.
I get it free through postalstreet.com - my postal consultant signed me up for it at no cost. I print my labels with the bar code already in place, slap a $3.50 stamp on it, and drop it off at the post office, no waiting in line. They scan it as accepted, and it gets scanned on delivery, too.
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tabbinosity
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posted on April 19, 2001 03:58:24 AM new
...and on the other hand...
I personally don't care for it, and don't want to pay for it, as either the sender or the recipient.
The tracking number is useless if the package wasn't scanned, which happens more often than is generally publicized. If it wasn't scanned, you can't track it online.
The USPS will tell you, if you ask, that DC is only proof of delivery to the recipient's town, not the recipient's actual address or even the recipient's zipcode. This is fine if the recipient lives in Podunk. This is not fine if the recipient lives in a city.
I live in a large city and I've routinely received mail with the correct house number, but the wrong street name. What happens if the package you sent meets that fate and the person who received it in error is dishonest and keeps it?
No signature is required at time of delivery, so you have no proof it was delivered. (Although, of course, there's the occasional overzealous letter carrier who decides not to leave the package without a signature, even though DC doesn't require it, thus forcing the recipient to make an unexpected trip to the post office.)
If it cuts down on recipients' claims that their packages never arrived, it's because the recipients were potentially dishonest in the first place. A sender carrying on about a DC number would not stop me from standing my ground, or filing mail fraud charges, if I didn't get my package and the seller didn't make it right.
If use of DC has stood up in court, it's only because how it really works and what it really does is not well understood.
I haven't used PayPal as a buyer or a seller in close to a year, but they've never offered a satisfactory explanation as to why they insist on DC rather than insurance, as proof of anything.
Again, because of the scanning of DC packages being spotty, if your package wasn't scanned, you have no proof of shipping even if you paid for DC. (If it wasn't scanned, it's not trackable online.)
And with PayPal's ever-changing TOS, who knows when they might change their view of DC and whip out some more hoops for sellers to jump through?
Much has been posted about DC offering "peace of mind." If the above info gives you peace of mind, by all means spend your 40¢, but please don't ask me, as the seller or buyer, to pay 40¢ for *your* peace of mind!
I'd rather (and I do) pay for insurance, and for those who feel the USPS insurance is overpriced or a PITA to use, there are other options available, which are less costly and more user-friendly.
MHO, YMMV, etcetera.
(edited for clarification)
[ edited by tabbinosity on Apr 19, 2001 04:01 AM ]
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dubyasdaman
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posted on April 19, 2001 04:55:25 AM new
If use of DC has stood up in court, it's only because how it really works and what it really does is not well understood.
This is incorrect. As a seller, you DO NOT need proof that the package was delivered. Delivery is irrelevant. As a seller, you need proof that the package was shipped. If the bar code is scanned, DC is proof that the package was shipped. The only packages that don't get scanned into the system (proof of shipping) are sent by lazy sellers. I NEVER leave the counter until I see the clerk scan the bar code. I never even have to ask them to do it anymore. They know I won't leave until they do.
A seller is protected against lost or damaged packages if:
1) He has the DC receipt and the bar code was scanned upon shipment
2) He offered insurance to the buyer and the buyer declined
DC is worth 50 times its cost when you have a dispute over a $1000 item. I can say this based on personal experience. Use it or not. It's your choice. But for me it's cheap peace of mind and protection against scammers. I know it works because it has never failed to work when I have been sued or threatened with a suit.
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sabreena
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posted on April 19, 2001 07:11:26 AM new
I would never ship a $1000 item without insuring it!!
There is no recourse if the delivery confirmationed item never gets to the buyer's hands. I only use delivery confirmation on low cost items --otherwise everything gets insured!
sabreena20
the FuN place to shop on EbAy
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dubyasdaman
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posted on April 19, 2001 07:35:11 AM new
There is no recourse if the delivery confirmationed item never gets to the buyer's hands.
Statements like this are made on these boards several times a week. And they are always wrong.
When a seller is paid and ships the item (FOB unless other arrangements are made, and if you're smart they never are), ownership of the item is immediately tranferred from buyer to seller. Once the item is shipped the seller is no longer responsible for the item. I (and you) as a seller have NO OBLIGATION whatsoever to insure someone else's property. When I sell an item (regardless of value) I offer the buyer the OPTION of insuring HIS property. I document this offer as well as his refusal (if any). I send the item with delivery confirmation (which proves that the item was shipped, NOT delivered).
This procedure works EVERY TIME without exception. I have proven this in AND out of court.
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marlenedz
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posted on April 19, 2001 08:46:08 AM new
I think the point that tabbinosity was making is that it is better to insist on insurance as opposed to DC. If you would have paid for insurace DC becomes meaningless since it covers both non-delivery and damaged goods. You would not have spent your time and money being in court if you had insisted upon insurance.
I do not have a clue why Paypal insists on DC over insurance. Makes no sense whatsoever. If they accept DC they should be accepting insurance. A postal receipt shows just as much as DC so they should be willing to accept that as well.
I'm with you Tabbinosity.
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marlenedz
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posted on April 19, 2001 08:53:10 AM new
paypaldamon
What would happen in the following scenario:
A customer pays through paypal and buys insurance. He claims he didn't get it and then files an insurance claim and then turns around and files a chargeback with Paypal since the seller did not purchase DC.
What is there to protect me in this case?
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december3
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posted on April 19, 2001 09:10:21 AM new
Maybe I'm wrong, but if he files for insurance and collects then does a chargeback it's fraud.
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marlenedz
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posted on April 19, 2001 09:40:36 AM new
Sure it's fraud and I would have to file charges against him which costs money and time and on a small amount it may not be worth my time. Since I haven't followed Paypal's TOS they are off the hook.
I realize that is Paypal's business and they can run it however they want and I can choose to use it or not but this is one of the reasons that I don't use it. I sell "media" so it's 50 cents for DC as opposed to 60 cents for insurance. If I charged for insurance then DC becomes a waste of money but I would still need DC to satisfy Paypal. On low priced items it is hard to justify. I lose sales since I won't take Paypal and if I do take Paypal I lose sales since I have to force them to pay another 1.10 to cover everything and most won't pay it for low priced items.
JMHO, if Paypal accepted insurace as proof I don't believe they would have as many chargebacks and I don't understand why they wouldn't accept it since it protects everyone more effectively than DC.
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paypaldamon
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posted on April 19, 2001 11:15:57 AM new
Hi marlenedz,
The details of the Seller Protection Program need to be followed to protect against a charge back. If you don't have proof of delivery (or don't follow the other rules)---you are at risk of assuming liability for the charge back.
Excessive charge backs by a sender can be grounds for account restriction or termination. As it relates to actions they take outside of PayPal,this is an issue that we would not have control over (the insurance issue).
Some sellers include the cost of delivery confirmation (or the method they use for tracking) in the shipping/handling prices to make sure that it is taken care of.
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paypaldamon
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posted on April 19, 2001 11:18:43 AM new
Hi marlendz,
The proof of delivery can be used with any method that is trackable on-line. Does the USPS provide tracking on insured goods that can be viewed on-line?
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Dakota1
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posted on April 19, 2001 11:26:03 AM new
My DC's always get scanned before I leave the counter. With the new NCR's on the west coast, once the clerk hits the DC button he can't go any further without correctly scanning the bar code. My customers have never had a problem with paying the extra few cents for it. The shipping price I quote on my auction pages always says shipped PM, DC & Ins.
Dakota1 (nowhere but here) 
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mballai
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posted on April 19, 2001 12:20:28 PM new
I use DC only over a certain dollar amount or if something seems problematic about a transaction. It's a waste of money for anything under $10 as is insurance.
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rarriffle
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posted on April 19, 2001 01:30:32 PM new
I have to send out a money order tomorrow because I didn't buy it this one time. Did the package arrive? Probably not but who knows but the buyer.
dubyasdamon,
I would never assume my responsibility as a seller stopped when the item was shipped. I wouldn't accept that excuse from a store I ordered from so how could I ask a buyer to accept it. I also do not buy from sellers who put that in their TOS.
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dubyasdaman
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posted on April 19, 2001 01:42:19 PM new
rarriffle:
There is no assumption to be made. It's a fact that if the buyer chooses not to insure HIS property when provided with the option, the seller's responsibilty ends with shipment.
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december3
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posted on April 19, 2001 02:25:28 PM new
paypaldamon-USPS insurance tracking only works if the item is insured for more than $50.00.
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mikeselis
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posted on April 19, 2001 04:45:08 PM new
DC has helped me a lot because I can track the progress of items that get lost in the system. Just last month I used tracking through a major commercial carrier (I won't use names this time) and figured out that it had since it hadn't been scanned in 3 days and that it was already a day late (I had paid extra to get it shipped by that company and to get it in a timely manner), that the package must be lost. It took them 2 days to find it, but once they did, it arrived quickly. Most of the items I buy get shipped by the same company but most of the time I never am sent a tracking number, so the seller really only covering their own interests, but leaving me in the dark about when the item will arrive. I can't sit around at home just waiting for things to arrive on the off chance something might come that requires a signature.
I have started to have packages sent to my work address because I can't be home. If I pay by check most sellers don't mind using a different shipping address if it means they don't have to bother with claims that it was lost because the delivery man left it on the porch without getting a signature.
So if somebody is going to pay for DC they might as well send the tracking number on to the buyer. The buyer is ultimately paying for this service. That transfers the responsibility for following through with the tracking to me, the buyer. The seller never needs to look it up unless there is a problem.
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taz8057
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posted on April 19, 2001 04:52:37 PM new
I always use D/C. I have found it to be valuble.
-Trey
***********************************
"If your mind can conceive it, and you believe it, then you probably can achieve it."
http://www.CondomDeals.com
***********************************
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sabreena
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posted on April 19, 2001 05:49:37 PM new
To Dobyasdamon,
What I meant as far as recourse--is from teh post office. I have had 6 or so which never showed up and because it was insured I got the value back and was able to refund this to the customer.
Even if a D.C. is scanned delivered it could have gotten stolen from a front porch..and the post office does make mistakes sometimes...
sabreena20
the FuN place to shop on EbAy
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dubyasdaman
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posted on April 19, 2001 05:57:27 PM new
sabreena:
I understand what you're saying. As a matter of customer service, it could make sense to pay for insurance yourself if the buyer declines it.
My point is that a seller isn't REQUIRED to purchase insurance on an item if the seller refuses it. At that point (legally) the buyer is on his own as far as recourse is concerned as the seller has no further legal obligation to do ANYTHING regarding the lost or stolen package except prove that he shipped it (this is where the DC comes into play). But if the seller chooses to do so for the sake of customer service that's another matter entirely.
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skip555
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posted on April 19, 2001 06:47:42 PM new
the other day i found a place on the usps website where dc can be free it is
I beleive publication 9 I couldn't quite understand it so I called the 800 number for help and got nowhere.
I plan to o back and try to figure it out again I just havn't gotten back to it
[ edited by skip555 on Apr 19, 2001 06:51 PM ]
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