posted on April 22, 2001 12:42:27 PM new
I happened to notice a seller is selling an almost exact item as what I successfully sold approx. 2 weeks ago. That's OK - that's not what I have the problem with - my problem is this seller is plagiarizing - using my descriptions almost word-for-word. Every now and then a word was not put in, but for the most part - it is word-for-word! At least they didn't use my same pictures! I have just e-mailed this seller and advised them of this and I also copied SafeHarbor. I told him that I appreciated the fact that he thought my wording and descriptions were so good that he had to "steal" them, but at least he could have asked or at least changed them enough where I would b.... about it! Just wondering what ya'll think! I'd be interested! Am I making too much out of this? I work very hard to come up with my own wording and descriptions, etc. - why can't everyone else do the same?
"Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:
Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression (for example, choreographic works that have not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches or performances that have not been written or recorded)
Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents
Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration
Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources)"
posted on April 22, 2001 01:05:10 PM new I work very hard to come up with my own wording and descriptions, etc. - why can't everyone else do the same?
Because the world's full of lazy, dishonorable people.
I'm acquainted with another seller who boasts about stealing other people's descriptions and pictures. Thinks it's a laugh riot and says anybody who doesn't do it is stupid.
I don't know his eBay ID. Nor does he know mine. Probably a good thing.
posted on April 22, 2001 01:08:18 PM new
I dont understand your item sold and was gone two weeks ago.
Even if there listing and wording is close to what you used last week this is of no effect to you or your own sales at this time.
Frist thing is if there is words missing or changed from what you had in your listing it cant be Plagiarism as that would be to copy your wirk to the letter, but they didnt they have changed it tweeked its its now there work.
I been selling on ebay and other auction sites for two years now I mind my own business I dont even know who other sellers are in the catagories I sell in.
They dont bother me I dont bother them and life is so much less stressfull my sales do as well as anyone elses.
posted on April 22, 2001 01:08:50 PM new
Well, I'm not gonna sue the guy or anything like that! I just think it's a pretty lousy thing for a seller to do! I mean - I'm starting out - I've got 65 stars and proud of each and every one of them -- this guy has got 400!! You would think someone with a history like that would have better sense!
posted on April 22, 2001 01:17:06 PM new
Have to concider there is only a limited amount of words and ways to describe one single same Item keep in mind a 1000 or 5000 people could have the same item to list and of them many will have nearly the same listing this dont mean they are copying each other.
if you were selling a one of a kind only one ever made and you found another listing you might have a case.
but when your selling a mass produced item that was more then likely sold in 50 coutry and all over the USA I dont see what your problem is .. http://dman.Dman-N-Company.com
posted on April 22, 2001 01:23:55 PM new
My item was not "mass" produced - if you'd like to see my auction - it is #1130027448 (do search by item #). I won't list the other seller's auction # here - don't know if I can - but on the first page of the section - look for the very same description as the one on my number (above) and read the descriptions - you'll know what I'm talking about. I guess I made too much out of it - personally, I still think it's a pretty lousy thing to do. And no, it didn't hurt my sale on the item - because, yes mine had already ended - 2 days before he started his first. I think it's a good thing I saw it - I still have many swords to list and I don't want folks to think I have copied HIM!
posted on April 22, 2001 02:08:09 PM new
You sold one item, and you're worried about a seller who sold just one item with your description? I'd say you have too much time on your hands, and need a hobby. There's a million things to be angry about, and 99.9% of them are unimportant compared to your health, which you will ruin by worrying about these small things.
I once experimented using this crazy title. By accident I ran across a couple other sellers who duplicated that crazy title. Boy, that had me cracking up because it didn't help my bidding, didn't hurt either.
You really shouldn't worry though. Innovators tend to be number one in their field. You can look across the various industries and see every company that is number one is the innovator. The copycats are usually left in the dust. Although, I think your description isn't neccesarily innovative, it's just in your own words.
My descriptions used to be innovative and the bidding went wild, I changed to a basic copy when the items I now sell require lots more info.
posted on April 22, 2001 06:00:27 PM new
Since it's easy enough to identify the other seller based on the information you've given (looks like a couple of us have found the auction in question already), doesn't the seller need to be invited here according to the CG's?
BTW, it's obvious that parts of your description were used word for word. 2 entire sentences were copied word for word. A third sentence had 1 additional word added, other than that it was pretty much yours. And the descriptive nature of these sentences is not so common that it could be a coincidence, even though the items are of the same type.
Of course, I tend to agree with dman3. If you spend so much time tending to other people's business, who's tending yours? You did what you thought you needed to do (notified the seller and SafeHarbor), now just let it go. http://bjgrolle.freehomepage.com
posted on April 22, 2001 06:14:19 PM new
Hi BJ! and everyone else! Thank you all so much for your comments, etc. All I really wanted in this forum was acknowledgement that "yes" the buyer copied "my words". I am not making a federal case out of it - I wanted someone to agree with me - that was all. FYI-the other seller had contacted me and to put it simply, "told me that just because our items were similar - flowers, birds, etc. to quit hasseling them". Well, I don't consider an e-mail to them "hasseling" them and the one e-mail was the only correspondence or contact I made with them. Like I said before, my complaint had nothing to do with the seller selling something similar or even the same thing - my problem was with the wording - "my words" - and I DO consider THAT to be my business! If I copied someone elses auctions word-for-word and they confronted me, well, I guess I'd be a little hostile too! I'm not the bad guy here - I didn't expect to be shred to pieces - like I said, I just wanted some acknowledgment that yes, this person "stole" my words. But I guess that's not really important in today's world - why not steal words - they along with everything else are up for grabs. Ya'll can invite the other seller here if you want to - I have nothing more to say about this subject - I have already earlier this evening asked that this thread be locked and I see they must not have gotten to my e-mail yet (bad idea doing away with the Moderator's Corner I think). I am learning alot everyday and will continue to come here to learn - I learn Good, Bad and Ugly! Anyway, ya'll have a good night now! Wishing you all joy, happiness and peace!
posted on April 22, 2001 08:06:30 PM newcapefeartrading, yes there are a LOT of lazy sellers out there that copy other people's descriptions. I assume that is why they can list many more items per week that we can.
Descrition writing is one aspect of selling that is time consuming. If you don't have to write your own descriptions and just cut and paste the other auction info - bingo, an auction is quickly launched.
I agree it is frustrating. The same thing happened to me only with a little added twist. My item sold high and the buyer was very happy to win the auction.
I waited 3 months researching this item before listing and never saw another listed on eBay during this time. I listed, it sold. The very next day two items identical to mine came up for auction. My buyer, who collected this brand, had an emergency in his family after we contacted each other and made plans for payment. He dropped a check in the mail.
Five days later, after I received the check and mailed the item, I saw the other two listed and noticed that my buyer also bid on the another item like mine. When I e-mailed him that his item had been shipped I jokingly said that I noticed he bid on another.
He replied back that yes he had - by mistake - that the other item was my listing word for word and he thought something had gone wrong with our transaction (although he forgot to e-mail me and ask) and that I had relisted my item. He wanted it badly and was confused with the medical emergency in his family, so he just rebid.
I looked and yes this seller took my description word for word and listed his item. The other also copied much of my description but had to make several changes since his item was not in as good of condition.
Both items sold for much less than mine. So, what it boils down to is these two sellers had this item in their inventory, saw what mine sold for, got excited, hurriedly listed theirs by taking my description and immediately listed.
No I don't think it's right. I would never do that myself, nor you, I assume. But, some people will do just about anything for a quick buck.
posted on April 22, 2001 08:47:06 PM new
Ebay does not permit user to copy auction descriptions without the writer's permission.
If you have nothing better to do... you can complain to Safe Harbor.
Tell safe harbor the seller that has borrowed (stolen) your text. Make sure to mention both your auction number and the other seller's auction number using your words. You took the time to write the description, why let them borrow it?
posted on April 22, 2001 09:11:46 PM newcapefear - you've gotten some not very helpful advice here based on misunderstanding (aka: ignorance) of copyright law.
It's true that facts, phrases and titles can't be copyrighted -- tho the language used to convey those facts can fall under copyright protection.
Your auction descriptions and photos ARE copyrighted, automatically, period (unless the description is something on the order of: "Civil War Union Sword, 29" blade" and not much more). In this particular instance, you're not talking mere plagiarism here but copyright infringement, which is illegal.
Did you hear back from the other seller? I won't even bother to ask if you heard back from SafeHarbor.
If anything like this ever happens again, send the auction numbers to Safe Harbor. I've not had this happen to me (uh, that I know of), but I've heard that ebay closes down the offending auction. Doesn't matter if this isn't what you want -- copyright laws and other intellectual property laws are important and necessary and need to be (a) better understood by the general public AND by auction sellers (since there seems to be so much "borrowing" going on), and (b) followed by all, as a matter of principle And law.
So I encourage all ebayers (and others) to report such violations when they occur. It's stealing, plain and simple.
In fact, one way I like to encourage people to think about copyright law is to imagine analogies with RL, tangible stuff. For example, how would you feel if someone was so enamored of your old car that they took it for a spin without your permission? It's called Intellectual PROPERTY for a reason. And it's no less important, no less viable, and no less a piece of property than personal property like automobiles. There are a few differences, of course, but enough similarities in the "property" angle that such analogies can help people understand the issue better.
Some folks come here and like to say, "Well, I'm not costing the copyright holder any money because they don't choose to market it." That's like saying, "Well, he wasn't USING his old car at the moment." Doesn't matter. It's still not their "property" to borrow or appropriate or steal.
If the copyright owner doesn't mind, they'll willingly grant permission. If they do mind, they'll either say no or grant some or all of the rights for a fee that makes them mind less or not at all.
Similarly, the advice you were given that it's not affecting your own closed auction anymore and so there's no harm done is just specious. Let the other seller spend the time writing his own descriptions -- or compensate you for the time YOU spent to write it. Your stuff is yours. Period. He can borrow the ideas, the formatting (since there's no creative graphic design inherent in the layout of the description), and whatever facts apply. But he's got to come up with his own language to couch those ideas and facts in. 100% original language? Not necessarily, but mostly. (One book on copyright suggests no more than 3 or 4 words strung together to be safe.)
I'm not a lawyer, but as a writer I've researched the issue of copyright and what I'm sharing is my understanding of some aspects of copyright law. There are a lot of internet sites on the subject, and some excellent books written for the layperson.
posted on April 22, 2001 09:29:54 PM new
I have found sellers copying my listings a couple of times. Once it was for a commemorative item and another time for a certain plate that had a very descriptive pattern.
I found these, not because I was looking to see if others were copying, but because I had several of each item and when I wanted to list them again I checked first to see if any were presently on. So it is a bit annoying to click onto an auction and see your own words used by another seller.
So when you do relist you have to completely change your description so it looks like you are not copying the other seller.
posted on April 23, 2001 12:12:24 AM new
What amazes me is that someone acually copied your description. Not to criticsize it, but it basically tells the condition and not much else. All I'm saying is if you spent two hours writing a beautiful description with your utmost thought to the use of very grabbing words, you would have a good case. However, your description uses basic wording to describe something and that really has no intellectual property value.
posted on April 23, 2001 04:37:41 AM new
Clevergirl there is a huge difference between writing as an author and writing an AD, which is all description is. Besides proving it lies with the one making the complaint and this seller, by changing some words, already has side stepped that issue.
What a "community" Ebay is LOL The original post of this thread is just petty.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on April 23, 2001 07:51:36 AM new
I sell magazines, rarely ever have duplicates of anything that I sell, so I never thought I would have a problem. Checking out some of the other sellers who sell the same type of magazines, I came across one who is using my one sentence description of the condition of the magazines. It was word for word, including the bolding of some words and the use of red on others. He had his own detailed description of the contents and picture. I was actually kind of flattered, since he put a lot more work into the description of the contents than I ever do that he thought my condition sentence was good enough to use. But, if he was selling the exact item or I sold high priced items. Or an item that I sell all the time I wouldn't be too happy if he stole my description. I don't know how you can stop them, you can't spend all your time policing all the other sellers in your categories.
posted on April 23, 2001 07:55:02 AM newtwelvepole and quickdraw -- Sorry, it doesn't matter how plain, prosaic, uncreative and/or uninspired someone's text is, or whether it's for a short story, diary or journal entry, email (yes, email and newsgroup postings), or *even* an AD. It's still automatically the property of and automatically copyrighted by the author. That the infringer changes a few words isn't enough to keep him from having infringed on the copyright.
posted on April 23, 2001 07:58:21 AM new...there is a huge difference between writing as an author and writing an AD, which is all description is.
You could try taking a Pepsi AD and substituitng your own brand of soft drink. I bet you'll find out fast enough how much difference there is between writing as an author and writing an AD.
The original post of this thread is just petty.
The original post asked a question:
I work very hard to come up with my own wording and descriptions, etc. - why can't everyone else do the same?
posted on April 23, 2001 08:06:57 AM new
Why are you Mrpotatoheadd?
I beleive it's petty because I think that two individuals of normal intelligence can come up with the similar description of an item.
Thinking someone stole your description, well....
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on April 23, 2001 08:20:13 AM new
There is a huge and large difference between a pepsi slogan for an origanal with a trade mark and a auction listing description.
These slogans ads and logo are all legal trade marks & patents which the company spends million to copyright and protect to use for years to come.
a online auction listing for the most part is a breif description of an Item no trade marks no patents in fact the only rightfull claims to this Item the person selling holds is the fact that they bought the item not its copyright trademarks or patents.
SInce when does anyone copyright the description of an Items condition.
posted on April 23, 2001 08:27:16 AM new
Sure, two people could come up with a similar description for the same item, but taking the writer of first post at their word, ...this seller is plagiarizing - using my descriptions almost word-for-word. Copying a description and inserting a couple of words here and there is not the same thing as writing a "similar" description.
If you feel that your time is of little value and you wouldn't mind somebody else taking your work and using it as their own, that is your option (btw... feel free to stop by to mow my lawn and wash my truck once a week). There is, however, no requirement that others consider their own time as worthless.
posted on April 23, 2001 08:37:40 AM new
From the The United States Copyright Office website FAQ's:
What does copyright protect?
Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed.
Sure sounds to me like the United States Copyright Office says that something such as an auction description may be protected by copyright laws.
