posted on April 23, 2001 11:22:02 AM new
Did you "send money" via your credit card or from out of your PayPal account? If you sent the money via your credit card you should file a claim with your credit card company indicating that you did not receive the items that were purchased with your card. Usually you have about 6 months to file such a claim. I don't know what your credit card company will do...but this is certainly worth a try.
posted on April 23, 2001 11:39:49 AM new
I got stung for over $300 but I only had about $80 in my account so I lost that. Now if it's over $50 I empty my account and put the whole thing on the credit card thru them.
posted on April 23, 2001 11:45:05 AM new
I try to always avoid using funds from my paypal balance because those transactions are not protected from fraud like my credit card. My credit card can start a chargeback for me and then paypal will be out of the money, to which they will go after the seller, and if the amount is enough, they can sue and press charges criminally. It think it might be "electronic device fraud", a felony.
One piece of advice, have the funds sent you you with your business account and issue payments from your personal paypal account. They let you have both types.
When an item got lost by a commercial carrier I called my credit card company and they told me they could initiate a chargeback if I wanted, but I may want to wait until I get something official from the carrier, as the item had already left the sellers hands and it was the commercial carrier who lost the item. Four days later, the carrier found the item and I knew that it was a good thing that I hadn't told them to start the chargeback.
I've been using Ebay since 1998!
posted on April 23, 2001 08:14:26 PM new
So does this mean that someone that buys from me (I'm verified) will not be able to recover funds if it's not in my paypal account? I had assumed that being verified meant that paypal would dig into my checking account and take the $$ from me if needed.
posted on April 23, 2001 09:16:35 PM new
Hello Heather,
Damon being a PayPal representative, needs to be treated with the same respect afforded to other posters, regardless of the issues you have with his company.
posted on April 23, 2001 09:46:32 PM new
Hi hcross,
I am sorry to hear of your issues regarding this seller. However, the terms of use are quite clear on how we cover transactions, what is covered, and what the recovery process is. The Buyer Protection Program has been in effect (in its current form, save the change in the timeframe a buyer has to file a claim within) since around November 11,2000.
To be fair, there is actually more protection from fraud, in a wide vareity of ways, than if you had paid by check or other. We do the whole recovery process on the behalf of our users whenever possible. Please bear in mind, if we are able to recover money through legal means, that this process can take several months (due to the interaction with other agencies and information gathering).And this is no guarantee (please review the Buyer Protection Program details on the site---it has instructions on the claims process).
We take fraud very seriously, but the end user is ultimately responsible for which party they send payment to and for what. The on-line auction industry is known for carrying a fair amount of fraud (rapidly declining according to FTC sources) and some discretion needs to be used when sending payment to someone. Our verification methods help deter fraud, but it will not completely eliminate the possibility that someone with ill-intent could defraud you.
I take no disrespect at your comments because I do empathize with the problem you are having and I realize that you are truly upset with the person that defrauded you and not me.
---------------------------------------------
As it relates to being verified---this does not give us unilateral access to your bank account for charge backs. Please feel free to review the terms of use on this subject and what the recovery process is for charge backs.
posted on April 23, 2001 11:45:31 PM new
Call me jaded, but I take any of this "protection" stuff from entities like PayPal with a grain of salt the size of a canned ham. It's 95% marketing. Perhaps they would like to post on their site a quarterly report showing how many loss claims were made and break down how they were disposed (or categories of reasons denied). You KNOW they're tracking that data.
And don't start with the nonsense about it being proprietary; if users' "anonymous" clickstreams can be revealed to the world (e.g. Doubleclick), then certainly non-personally identifiable data like claims experience can as well. Especially the % of claims accepted and the average amount of time to pay them. And MOST especially since jaded people like me are unlikely to even bother with it, meaning that those who DO are more likely to have a legitimate, larger case.
Not that PayPal is the only party doing this. Ebay has some supposed protections if you do things just so, but I'm skeptical about how many people those actually help. They seem designed mainly to scare people out of transactions outside eBay and create a perception of added value as cheaply as possible.
The only PayPal-related protections I put any stock in are credit-card ones embedded in statutory law. I expressed concern in threads a few months ago about possible ways an account could be hacked, compromised or otherwise emptied with little or no recourse because the account and source of funds was not protected by law to nearly the same extent that credit cards are.
Some people who had no first-hand experience with things like this called me a worrier, paranoid, a Luddite or some combination of those. Yet people get left high and dry and are told to blame themselves after the marketed protections...surprise, surprise...didn't apply.
There's a real difference between having protections mandated by law and having ones that are up to the discretion or fine-print rules of the services like PayPal or their insurance carriers. The former kind is much more valuable to the consumer than the latter.
In the meantime, anytime you're supposedly blessed with more "protection" sponsored by those with a marketing interest in promising it, ask to see the track record on how many people have actually used it, and what % of claims were paid out (and in how long). And see what kind of response you get.
posted on April 24, 2001 12:10:30 PM new
Hi hcross,
My picture is actually on another forum...LOL!
Yes, I understand your frustration with the scenario. Verification gives us a stronger sense of identification on the receiving party (and it makes it far more trackable when dealing with legal authorities). Your claim will not be forgotten and we will pursue a refund on your behalf, but recovery is not guaranteed and there could be a long timeframe in recovery (if at all).
Have you filed an insurance claim on the auction site you purchased it from? This is an additional step I would recommend.
Contacting the authorities in the town where it was purchased was also a good idea.
posted on April 24, 2001 02:23:36 PM new
It wasn't an ebay transaction. Besides that, their insurance is nothing, I don't know many people who have managed to get a claim paid through them, they always have an excuse.
Damon, I found last night that this lady owns a thrift store in El Paso. I filed the police complaint under personal, but called back today and gave them the business information. I was told that this would now be considered theft. Can you tell me if a subponea will have to be filed to get any information that she has given to Paypal? Bank account, etc.? I know that she is out there on the auctions sites under a different email, I think she trashed her aol address because I have not heard a word from her, would Paypal tell me/us if she has another address listed on Paypal? Would you be able to at least tell me if she took my money last week and deposited it? If she did I will recover nothing from Paypal, she has not sold in at least a month. Heather
posted on April 24, 2001 03:05:54 PM new
Hi hcross,
You are correct. Getting access to someone else's records would require a subponea . This is because all customer information is proprietary and will not be released without a subponea.
posted on April 24, 2001 06:41:48 PM new
I had this same thing happen to me. I was given the runaround and ended up wasting a lot of time. Mine was only $25, but for me, it was principle. Paypal wouldn't do anything without the ebay insurance claim, and I couldn't file a claim with ebay because it was equal to the deductible. I sent several emails to paypal, and got canned responses. I could've cut and pasted the same response 3X and sent them to myself.
Then I was going to go through our bank, cause I thought it was paid with my credit card, but it was paid from the balance in the paypal account.
The funny thing is, after 48 days, I got the product. But, I did learn that I had NO protection through paypal like I thought, so I closed my account. At least with a postal money order, I can get a copy of it, I feel like I've got SOMETHING, besides the runaround.
