posted on November 19, 2001 07:53:15 AM new
I am thinking of upgrading my account on Paypal and thus paying the fees, but the majority of my sales are $10 and less. Because of this, I want to Institute a $25 or more limit on use of paypal. Do you think it will fly?
posted on November 19, 2001 08:30:38 AM new
If the majority of your sales are under $10, and you have a minimum of more than twice that amount to accept Paypal, you are in effect not accepting on line payments, which means I wouldn't bid on your items.
posted on November 19, 2001 08:36:43 AM new
As with any such stipulation (e.g., no foreign bidders) you can expect that some people will either not notice it or will disregard it.
Just be prepared and have your contingency plan in order for when (not if) you encounter the first person who violates your rule. Do you let it slide and absorb the fees? Do you refund the money and insist on another payment method at the risk of a lost sale and negative feedback? Determine that for yourself now because it's a situation you will eventually face.
As a seller, I understand why you've come up with this rule. Personally, I adhere to the old KISS (Keep It Simple) system, which means I'll either offer a payment method with no strings attached, or I won't offer it at all. I still find that about half of my buyers still pay with check or money order, so if I take some hits on some low-end auctions with online payment expenses, that's fine with me. <br />
[ edited by holdenrex on Nov 19, 2001 08:37 AM ]
[ edited by holdenrex on Nov 19, 2001 08:37 AM ]
posted on November 19, 2001 08:43:59 AM new
Like you, my items are mostly under $10. I agree with the earlier responder that you need to keep it simple, which means accepting Paypal for all amounts. It does cost, but nowadays we have to resign ourselves to paying for most things. We all were spoiled by the days of free everything, but that was an anomaly that is gone. The time you save with Paypal is worth it.
posted on November 19, 2001 08:52:41 AM new
Currently, I accept paypal when issued against a credit on account or echeck, or so on so I do not have to pay the fees. In 6 or 7 months of doing this, I've only had ONE bidder pay by credit card without permission. I say in my EOA notice that I will accept credit card paypal from overseas up to $100 a month, but not more. I've never run into my $100 a month limit. I guess I am lucky that my bidders read my EOA, and actually follow my instructions. I agree that KISS is the best way, but when it turns a profitable hobby into a break even hobby, it is time to change the rules.
BTW, My plan is to have Paypal Hold all payment to be accepted, and deny all payments under $25. That way I have no fees attached to them, and I can enforce my limit. My plan is to have the limit in my TOS on every auction as well as on the EOA. I'm sure some people will be demanding, and I will probably let them slide. I will probably raise my Shipping and handling to $2 from $1.75 also to help cover some of these fees. I feel like I am being Mauled by a thousand Butterflies with all of these fees (Someone has a signature line, "Ebay fees are like being pecked to death by chickens. I've had chickens as pets and they can hurt if they get a good grip... )
posted on November 19, 2001 09:48:07 AM new
Since I have changed over to just accepting paypal funds 10 days ago, 3 people have sent me credit card payments. I send a nice e-mail and apologize and ask them to take back payment and send it via Billpoint or my business account. (I upgraded my husband's account so that I could accept these few credit payments). Everyone has been really understanding and I send along some extra bonuses for their effort.
I have no problem with Paypal charging us for the credit card payments, but 80% of my payments were from paypal funds. So I do not want to pay $.55 for each $9 payment I accept whether it is from credit cards or not... Best of luck.
posted on November 19, 2001 10:25:45 AM new
Quite honestly dejapooh, if Paypal's fees are the difference between your hobby being profitable or break-even, then you probably have some bigger issues to work out. After adding up my expenses for last year's tax returns, I realized that the total I had payed in Paypal fees was (to further the chicken imagery) chickenfeed compared to all my other expenses. And yes, quite a lot of my auctions go for less than $10. Also, about half of my payments are in the form of checks/money orders so I look at the Paypal issue as part of an aggregate whole - one big sale paid for with a check goes a long way to absorbing the Paypal fees.
posted on November 19, 2001 11:44:27 AM new
Most of my auctions are under $5, and I was finding Paypal far too expensive, so I downgraded my account, and now only take direct transactions or echecks, of course, I still get people sending with credit card, which I have to deny, which can cause problems, but on the whole it is working very well. I don't offer Paypal on my listings because of this, but I tell buyers when I give the postage the circumstances under which I can take it.
posted on November 19, 2001 01:16:32 PM new
You mean you can DOWNGRADE an account once you've upgraded and found it does not suit your needs? WOOO HOOO...
BTW< I tried to sigh up for c2it today. It said to "try again later"
posted on November 19, 2001 01:55:42 PM new
Yes, Dejapooh, you can downgrade your Paypal account, but only once, if you upgrade it a second time, that's it. I'ts quite easy to do.
posted on November 19, 2001 03:38:58 PM new
if your transactions are under 10 and sometimes just 5 dollars,your bidders should be more considerate by sending you a check or money order.
we have a smoothie place and business is down,so owner taped a sheet of paper over the machine and said 'machine not working',just think average sales is under 3.oo and folks want to use credit cards-
transaction fee is 20 cents plus discount rate at 3 %.
posted on November 19, 2001 03:58:12 PM new
I might be wrong but I dont think Ebay allows you to post that stipulation. I know you cant say "if bidding reaches over $50 I will throw in an extra HJHJH" I dont remember where the rule is but they made that illegal and I think the paypal thing is the same.
posted on November 19, 2001 04:08:35 PM new
In the go go days of ebay,i have seen sellers said if bidding goes over $xxx.xx,i will throw in free shipping.
dont know if this is still allowed or not.
posted on November 19, 2001 04:15:29 PM new
They just changed it.
***Bonus Items Policy***
Some sellers choose to provide an incentive for bidding in their listings by offering bidders a bonus. In the past, we have not allowed certain types of bonus listings because they can result in unfair consequences for bidders. However, we realize that when done in an appropriate manner, bonus offerings can be beneficial for both sellers and bidders.
In light of this, we have decided to change our policy regarding bonus items such that it is generally permissible to offer a bonus in a listing as long as certain requirements are met. Those requirements are as follows:
· In all bonus listings, the seller must state the exact price at which the bonus will apply. For example, it is not permissible to state "I will throw in a state of the art black and white TV if bidding reaches a high enough amount." It is permissible to state "I will throw in a state of the art black and white TV if bidding reaches $150."
· In Dutch Auctions the seller must offer the exact same bonus item to ALL winning bidders. Dutch auction rules require that all winning bidders receive identical items.
The "Bonus Items" policy can be found on the following page:
posted on November 19, 2001 05:37:12 PM new
Heee!Heee!
Obviously one of eBay's classy partners such as I.G. Farben or LoveCanal Spring Water wants to offer bidding bonuses, so, as the consummate corporate whore that feeBay be...
posted on November 20, 2001 07:14:41 AM new
Since paypal has changed their policy and does not allow ANY credit card payments unless your account is upgraded, I just don't post the paypal logo in my auctions.......but do include in my invoice that I do accept paypal as payment if paying using an existing paypal balance or a transfer from a checking/savings account.....It has worked great for me and I have quite a few using paypal as payment.....but doesn't cost me any fee's. I'm just not willing to pay any more fee's and this method has not hurt my ebay auctions at all.
posted on November 20, 2001 10:20:16 AM new
You can put it in big block letters on their forehead, and they still will not get it! With the advent of paypal, I get many fewer traditional credit card sales. I do state I want a $5 minimum for credit cards (Which is really low) but any less, and the fees eat up the profit. I have a website where someone will order a $3 item, and pay with credit card! I accept them, figuring maybe I am blocking some bidders. However, if your average sale is $10, and your paypal minimum is $25, prepare for battle!
posted on November 20, 2001 12:52:07 PM new
I would say that 50% of the items sold go to someone who is buying more then one item. That makes the $25 much easier to get to. Also, many times people buy 2 items a week for 3 or 4 weeks, and send payment all at once (if they tell me along the way what is going on, I am pretty easy about that... I like bidders).
posted on November 20, 2001 06:45:48 PM new
I too have not been taking paypal unless it is by echeck or funds from paypal, now today I had 3 auctions end and I sent them a message that I would take paypal under these circumstances and would you know it, they paid by credit card anyway!!!! My sales have been down because I am not listing paypal on the auctions. All of my items are about $2.00 each so the fees are eating me up. I have already raised my shipping and handling fee. Alright, my ranting is done!
posted on November 20, 2001 09:08:52 PM new
My turn. Okay, you guys are simply asking too much. Have you ever stopped to think what bidders must go through after they win an auction? They are hit from all ends, e-mails flying everywhere, flashing stop signs, warning bells, go to checkout, don't go to Checkout, pay instantly, oops.. seller doesn't accept BillPoint, pay now with PayPal, wait for seller's e-mail, fill out my WBN, read my TOS. It must be a nightmare!
Now if the links in your WBN are in fact, clickable, once they are dumped into your AW Storefront (for a quick review of everything else you have for sale), that PayPal link will be their only salvation. By then, I doubt seriously they will remember or care to go back and figure out your individual payment preferances or whether the fees are eating up your profits, etc., etc.
If you accept PayPal payments, you should accept them any way they come. If you can't live with the fees, don't use the service, but leave the buyer out of it.
posted on November 20, 2001 11:25:50 PM new
doormat, that's ridiculous. As a seller I have hundreds of auctions ending at different times, on different sites; I have checkouts, EOA emails to send out, people wondering where their item is, people asking for more item detail, and so on, and you're concerned how a buyer can handle a couple winnning bids? Sure, right!
Also, I have done about a 100 buys on ebay and had multiple wins at one time, and I can't relate to your reasoning. It's as simple as writing the info down and suddenly everything is orderly and organized.
There is no reason anyone that is educated above the fifth grade can not read "No credit cards" (within an email).
posted on November 21, 2001 10:32:14 AM new
Quickdraw>
If you are not going to accept credit cards, you should state that in your auction. That, in effect, means you are not accepting PayPal for the vast majority of buyers who don't have PayPal balances or don't want to wait the time it takes for their check to clear.
Not everyone spends as much time at eBay as you do. People have full time jobs that they are just as good at, as you are with your auctions. They don't want to tie up all their spare time learning the ins and outs of eBay. They just want to buy something and get out of there.
Since it doesn't happen anywhere else, people are not accustomed to being given an option to pay through a service that obviously accepts their credit card, and having to use their own discretion on whether to use it or not. It shouldn't be left up to them at that point. You are the one who set up the account and that account is accepting their card.
IMHO what's ridiculous here is not that the buyer doesn't read. It's that the seller doesn't understand.
posted on November 21, 2001 11:37:50 AM new
doormat, I agree a seller's success depends on how far and how many times we are willing to stoop down to a buyers maturity level. But there has to be a balance between costs and satisfaction. Not all customers want to be extremely satisfied with a service at a high cost, some are happy with average satisfaction at a lower cost. So try not to speak for all buyers.
Ok, so many buyers live hectic lives and find it hard to read a one line sentence saying, "no credit cards," is it fair to pass the costs to all buyers in order to please half the buyers?
posted on November 21, 2001 02:10:55 PM new
The lower cost should be easily comparable with similar auctions, so the buyer can make their own decision which auction they want to bid on.
Let's face it, PayPal means credit card to a large amount of buyers. It's not a lack of intelligence. It's their experience that shows them to look for the little button to click. And if it works, great. They're done. They move on.
It's that way when you shop all over the internet. Nowhere else, are you expected to voluntarily not click that button because you read somewhere that it wasn't okay. Or to pay by check instead of credit card. Experience tells us all that you find out instantly what you can or cannot do, from the error message and the fact that your payment did not go through. None of these web sites seem to have a problem "stooping to the buyer's level", although I doubt they would look at it that way. They know how important it is to make the payment process as quick and easy as possible.
But people don't get that error message from PayPal. Quite the contrary, they are welcomed with open arms and given all the options available with no indication that the seller doesn't accept credit card payments. And that's where the problem lies, between you and PayPal.
posted on November 21, 2001 02:49:15 PM new
Well I have had to deny another payment and you know, I don't list I take paypal on the auction. I just thought it would be good to list this for the buyer after the fact. I just dont understand why these people do not read the email. I know that I have been here longer than most of my buyers but come on! How hard it is to read the dang emails! I stated not by credit card and they still keep sending them. I don't know if I should just go ahead and raise my handling fee again or what. I know that alot of people don't bid when they don't see the paypal logo and I have been guilty of the same thing. But if I sell a toy for $2.00 then shipping and packing cost is $1.75 and then ebay takes .30 plus .10 for the sale then I have to pay AW for the listing at .10 then paypal wants a cut of this for .30 then another .05 that is .85 for just the one sale for $2.00. On top of that I have to pay for the box at .35 as it is a special box because of the size of the toys that I send to keep the cost down for postage. That ususally runs about .55 to 1.03 to mail.
posted on November 21, 2001 03:32:53 PM new
I know this won't be liked but I don't know why anyone would bother trying to sell a two dollar item...even if there were no fee's their wouldn't be any money in it...
posted on November 21, 2001 03:57:07 PM new
I understand that you may not buy a two dollar item but if you sell fast food toys you really can't get much more than that for them. That's what I sell and it's hard to believe but I was selling about $200-$300 a month back in the day! I have been a collector for over 10 years and on ebay for about 2 1/2 or so. That's pretty much all I sell. I guess when someone's kid hollers loud enought that they missed a McDonalds toy then Mom & Dad fork out the cash. I don't mind that most people think its strange to sell happy meal toys but hey it's just a hobby for me, real life job pays the bills LOL!
posted on November 21, 2001 04:56:23 PM new
I do exactly the same thing as you Zatara, I don't offer Paypal on my listings, but I do tell the buyer when I give postage, that I can take Paypal if they pay by direct transfer or echeck, of course, I get the ones that still pay by credit card, I just write and explain nicely that Paypal doesn't allow me to accept credit card payments on my standard account, and ask if they can pay the way I stipulated, most comply quite happily. I explain that a lot of sellers will be doing the same thing, so it's good to learn how to send a direct payment, or echeck. I refuse to upgrade my Paypal account again, I am being swamped with charges, and it's just not worth the effort on low cost items.
posted on November 21, 2001 05:20:07 PM new
"None of these web sites seem to have a problem "stooping to the buyer's level..."
Are you sure? How do you know? If you read business magazines you will see companies that do have problems with meeting buyers half way.
And when you say "websites," do you mean Amazon.com or all websites including JoeShmoeSkateboards.com? How do you know all websites?
Many buyers are slow to learn and adapt, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't learn and adapt. They did learn some habits because paypal permitted credit cards for all with a limit, that may have been a source of confusion for buyers. But now most sellers with paypal can not accept credit cards and soon enough buyers will learn.
