posted on December 26, 2001 05:58:42 PM new
I just found this on an ebay auction. It seems to me the seller is a little mad at ebay and a few others.
NOTICE!!!! >>>>>>>>>> CAREFULLY READ THE RULES >>>>>>>>>> READ THE DESCRIPTION >>>>>>>>>> Due to an EBAY rule that doesn't allow a seller to charge the buyer the Credit Card and 3rd party service provider fees, combined with their Gestapo like NO Questions/Appeals/Replies Enforcement. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. >>>>> USA SALES ONLY and I WILL NO LONGER ACCEPT ANY CREDIT CARDS, PAYPAL or OTHER 3rd PARTY PAYERS <<<<< Trust me, these "enforcement" people make the Taliban look like they have a sense of humor...... a weekend with them and you want to click your heels together and shout....... I sell ALL items AS IS, AND ALL SALES ARE FINAL, for my own protection ONLY. If the product proves to be other than as stated I will consider return, MINUS any shipping charges.
I have been seeing more and more seemingly hostile TOS's in auctions lately. I sell only as a hobby to support my other hobbies, so the few fees involved don't bother me much. But do many other sellers feel this way? or have I just picked the wrong auctions to peruse?
posted on December 26, 2001 06:28:51 PM new
Obviously that seller is mad at the Boss. Ebay puts down the rules and if people don't like them go to another place. Also I have never paid a fee for PayPal but I do notice some sellers still try and charge the buyer. I wouldn't turn them in I just wouldn't bid on their auction.
posted on December 26, 2001 06:31:29 PM new
It seems this type of hostile auction is becoming more common. No doubt this person had all his auctions yanked by ebay after somebody turned him in for charging extra fees to cover credit card expenses. Of course if he had read ebay's rules as closely as he wants his bidders to read his rules, he wouldn't be having this problem.
posted on December 26, 2001 07:00:17 PM new
yahoo paydirect gives buyer and seller a choice of who picks up the tab for the transfer fee.but competition is such that buyer expects seller to pay.
why not ask buyer how he plans to pay,then invocie him total including shipping and handling which covers cc fee?
one needs not mention handling includes cc fee?
posted on December 26, 2001 07:11:30 PM new
I suppose, that with the way he has chosen to word his TOS. He won't need to worry about Ebay's TOS much longer! As for him selling anything with that bit of literature I doubt it. I know I wouldn't bother to finish it. I would read into it, nothing but trouble coming from a seller like that and click out before I started!
posted on December 26, 2001 08:10:00 PM new
As a seller also, I can relate with this seller so I may want to buy from him. I'd be more likely to trust a seller with a harsh TOS because you know a scammer wouldn't be so negative.
I tested a hardline TOS once and I didn't see any drop in bidding, although the buyers turned out to be a lot more friendly.
posted on December 26, 2001 08:59:56 PM new
Best I remember, he had a pretty good FB. Under 100 but good. He was selling a new item at a very good price. I was tempted to bid until I read the TOS......
I try to state my terms very carefully in my auctions without making anyone mad. I learned a lot from these boards and I haven't had any problems. But this one........... wow!
posted on December 26, 2001 09:24:43 PM new
This guy goes beyond a mere "harsh TOS." He's using ebay as a platform to editorialize, which comes across as very unprofessional. I wouldn't deal with him because I don't want to deal with anybody who's prone to throwing temper tantrums. He comes across as the type of seller who has a bad day with the boss (ebay), so he goes home to kick the dog (the bidders). I also prefer to pay with online payments so, unless he has something totally unique, he'd lose my bid based on that alone.
posted on December 26, 2001 09:48:53 PM new
Oh yea, like that powerseller who sold his PS jacket and the ranting he did with that listing!!
"This guy goes beyond a mere harsh."
I don't find this harsh at all. Harsh is when a seller says, "you piece of crap deadbeats better stay away from my auctions."
Is he really throwing a temper tantrum? He says he no longer will take credit cards because of the fees in which he supposedly can't recover. Then he uses a little sarcasm. Then closes it saying auctions are asis and all sales final. I don't see the anger you refer to.
posted on December 27, 2001 04:59:43 AM new
Quickdraw, I don't know why you always defend sellers who use their TOS to rant and rave about ebay and their policies. If you can't see the underlying anger behind this guy's TOS, then you really are wearing rose-colored glasses. Your summary of his TOS is accurate but misleading because HOW something is said is just as important as WHAT is said. It's in the HOW he says it that the anger comes out.
If the guy wants to have a restrictive TOS - no third party payments or foreign buyers - that's fine, and a lot of sellers do the same thing. But the sarcasm and grandstanding is neither necessary nor professional. You're probably the only person who would actually prefer to buy from this guy because the odds of him being a scammer would be lower. I'd prefer to take my chances with a professional looking auction where the seller doesn't look like a loose canon with a chip on his shoulder.
posted on December 27, 2001 07:28:50 AM new
I have seen a few like this also. They probably belong in another line of work - something where they have no contact with other people. I spent almost 9 years working in retail, so I understand that customers can be the most frustrating group to deal with, but they are the ones that pay the bills. I would hope that the market will do to these sellers what the market does to bad retailers - they go out of business.
posted on December 27, 2001 08:20:16 AM new
I think it's important for someone to note that it is not just Ebay's rule that a seller can't charge a buyer extra to use a credit card, but rather a "law" in the state of California, as well as other states in the US. Because Ebay is located in CA, it is important for them to enforce the rule. I personally add a handling fee to all transactions to help cover selling expenses such as auction listing fees and Paypal fees.
posted on December 27, 2001 08:55:57 AM new
holdenrex, I don't defend this sellers unprofessional TOS, sellers need to put their poltics aside and just sell, sell, sell. On the otherhand, what a great political forum to get your opinion out with hundreds of viewers, especially if you sell a popular item. It worked with that Power Seller I previously mentioned who got national press coverage.
I do see this sellers anger behind his TOS statements, but it's valid anger, he's not acting like a raving lunatic. If you read between the lines he is saying he's having a hard time making a profit with these fees he can't cover, and he describes his items accurately so there's no reason someone has to accuse him for wrong descriptions. Sounds fair to me. Sounds like an honest, hard working person trying to scrap by a living. I won't hold anything against him.
One motto I live by: Things aren't as bad as it seems.
posted on December 27, 2001 08:59:55 AM new
Hello
CC costs are 3-5%. If 5% will be the difference between a profit and a loss either sell something else or return to the day job. EBay, Credit card, Image fees and the like are the price of selling on the Internet. Try mail sales awhile and he likely would be glad to return.
Happy 2002 to all
posted on December 27, 2001 09:03:38 AM new
Sellers can charge buyers the fees associated with credit cards but can't specifically state what the fee is for. It's a pointless law. A seller can add $1 to the cost and just label it overhead, a nice loophole to use.
posted on December 27, 2001 09:12:00 AM new
"CC costs are 3-5%. If 5% will be the difference between a profit and a loss either sell something else or return to the day job."
Grocery stores have a 1% profit margin, maybe they should close up shop and let consumers farm for themselves because they can't afford the credit card fees (most don't take CC).
The issue at stake is if a low margin seller can do the volume to stay in business. Most can't and do go out of business. Statistics show 90% of small business fail within five years.
posted on December 27, 2001 09:58:15 AM new
The only thing that sells in America is Instant Gratification. Credit cards are designed to help achieve that. If the commissions cost five times what they do now, most sellers would still accept them and grudgingly accept the extra cost. Some would pass it on, some wouldn't.
But IMHO, anyone who uses their auction to do anything other than make it as easy as possible for a buyer to achieve instant gratification is either (a) unaware of how they are damaging themselves, or (b) flat out doesn't care.
Unfoprtunately, 99% of customers do not care about anything other than what they want, right this instant. Many sellers have never learned this.
Forums (like this one) are the best place to vent, cautiously to your peers, but certainly never to your potential customers! That said, this is America and everyone has an equal opportunity to blow it for themselves.
bdunique
posted on December 27, 2001 10:28:09 AM new
quickdraw, I saw that PS jacket auction too and I agree that was a good use of ebay's own auctions as a protest. The jacket protest worked because the item being sold tied into the statement being made.
We'll have to disagree on the rest of the points about his TOS. I don't think he has a valid reason to be so hostile. He apparently broke an ebay rule, one that they're rather strict about, and ebay probably pulled his auctions with the stated cc charge. So he blames ebay for enforcing their own rules, while I don't see him taking any of the blame for breaking the rule in the first place. I forget exactly what the jacket auction was protesting, I seem to recall they had a more valid point than this one.
There used to be an unofficial rule on some internet forums that the first person to liken another party to the Third Reich automatically lost the debate. He likens ebay to both the Gestapo and (just to update things) the Taliban. When comparisons are made to fascist regimes, that's a pretty good warning sign that you're in "rant" territory, at least IMHO.
As for the online payment fees biting into his profit, as others have pointed out, he could just pad his handling fee. Either way, it's still coming out of the buyer's pocket. He may be an honest hard-working fellow trying to make a profit, but as the cliche goes, he needs to start working smarter, not harder. He could start by familiarizing himself with ebay's rules, cleaning the extraneous material from his TOS, and bumping up his handling charges a bit.
posted on December 27, 2001 08:00:31 PM new
I know why he wants the buyer to pay is because his auctions are going for a good chunk of change and that would cut into his profits. He hasn't been on long and his feedback is good with no negatives so I guess the buyers are okay with that but eBay rules that domain and what eBay says goes. The sooner he learns that the better he will be. Also in Wisconsin retailers cannot charge for CC payments. At least they are not supposed to.
