posted on January 1, 2002 01:26:19 PM new
I have an ecommerce website that needs traffic in a bad way and I'm willing to pay for it. I'm just wondering if anyone out there has any suggestions.
We are well positioned with Google and we are using their Adwords program with minimal success - I will confess that we limited our ad words as a test, to make sure we didn't spend $500.00 in a day!
Do you think it's worth paying for placement in the other search engines? How well do you think getting awards and having folks link to you, work?
I would love to do some champagne advertising on a beer budget to start. Any suggestions?
posted on January 1, 2002 04:21:44 PM new
There is no simple answer to a complex subject like marketing. I can only tell you what I would do, which is whatever I spend, to measure as exactly as possible the results in actual sales dollars.
If you can not measure it, I would be shy of spending money on it.
I also am highly suspicious of on line advertising unless it is ever so precisely targeted. For example, I sell exercise tapes, and sending me people who are interested in exercise is not good enough; I want only those who are searching for "exercise" and the word "video", "tape", "vhs" or "program".
On line advertising may not be as productive as something in print. Cross media promotion can be very good. For example, it might be better to hire a publicist to place product stories that included your website for more information on specific items you sell. Then when an article appears in a newspaper, you will have a flurry of hits and sales and know exactly where they came from.
You might start a bulletin board on your subject over at you know who and promote the site that way. If it is angels that are your specialty I can think of a thousand things to do to build traffic that would not cost much money.
Give me a little more information and I will be more than happy to give you some suggestions.
posted on January 1, 2002 05:26:28 PM new
I would follow the big guys and use other media for advertising.
Ebay was blasted for having inserts in the Sunday paper because people say it was wasted money spent on many people who don't own a computer. I don't agree. I found ebay because of an ad in a magazine before I ever went online. They got my attention before any other auction site.
Your source of advertising should be national magazines related to what you sell. Can even use the classifieds in them if they have them.
I don't see spending much on search engines as a good idea unless you get prominent placement.
posted on January 1, 2002 08:34:20 PM new
Thanks for the suggestions. I do have a space at a local shop that I primarily rented to promote the website but unfortunately it's been a money pit.
Perhaps the publication route is the way to go. That idea had crossed my mind but I wasn't too sure about where to start.
Litlux, right now we concentrate on Angels (expanding continually) and State Coin Bears. Soon we will be adding some wonderful well priced artsy theme wall clocks.
We want to be a unique gift shop ultimately, with a gift for every age group and sex.
The Google AdWords work great because you minus out some search words. Example, we have 'angel worry stone' as a search but we said no to searches for Charlies, Las Angeles, etc.
Just today I was thinking of starting a message board. What place do you mean? I think it's okay to say the name of the place, just don't link it.
posted on January 1, 2002 08:54:23 PM new
If you are a niche market then you really need to focus your advertising.
The search engines can be helpful but are limited because the best can only search about 15% of the net. So if you are going to go that route you need to get in as many of the big name engines as possible.
Banner ads......
While generally disliked & usually with a low click thru ratio you can generally get a few customers this way for little or no cost.
linkexchange.com (now MS Bcentral or something.) is probably the easiest way to go at no cost. You can get an additional 5000 banner views for like $20 a month.
I would stay away from their ad campaigns for big sites like GAMESPOT or others.
(voice of experience)
Probably your biggest asset & source of information would be your past customers.
Find out if any of them have websites you can post on related to your products.
Look for related usenet newsgroups.
Do searches in the catagories you think you would be listed under check out those sites.
See if there are any places that will let you post links etc.
Last but not least...
WORD of MOUTH from your past customers.
posted on January 1, 2002 10:05:29 PM new
Have you tried Guideposts magazine called Angels? It's a wonderful magazine, full of angel stories.
Also, how about posting the same question on some boards that are devoted to angel collectors? It will serve two purposes - you will get hints from the people who you are looking to serve and it will also send those same people to your site.
posted on January 1, 2002 10:34:30 PM new
Google Adwords is too expensive. A much better alternative (in my opinion and experience) is Overture (www.overture.com). You pay per click, not per impression. My best cost/revenue ratio has been through them. Note: I have no interest whatsoever in Overture besides being a very happy customer.
I have also had good luck posting to the search engines listed here (and they're free):
1) Don't SPAM. You'll lose your ISP and/or webhost.
2) Don't use "Safelists". There is no such thing.
3) Don't waste your time on FFA pages. They're useless.
posted on January 2, 2002 01:09:13 AM new
MrBusinessMan hit the nail on the head - it is click through, not impressions, that count and keep an eye out on the cost/benefit ratio.
You mentioned you had a space in a store to promote your website, but this is inherently inefficient. If this space sells products, then you might be able to justify the expense based on actual sales.
Doing real brick and morter is very expensive and eats up your life. I did it for a decade, with moderate success, but never spent Christmas or holidays with my family since the store was always open, and bills had to be paid. I also figured the first $100,000 in sales were just to raise the rent and overhead, and by the time all was said and done, everyone got paid, with me last in line.
As to an Angels bulletin board, check out Yahoo groups. It could share angel stories and images, and you, as moderator, could have a one line ad on each posting. Something like: "Angels flock to abc.com to find heavenly gifts"
You mentioned Angel worry stones, which I imagine are not terribly expensive. I would prepare a little press kit and send it to gift writers at magazines and Sunday magazine supplement writers. In the kit I would include a worry stone with a story about it for possible selection as a gift item to be featured in their publication; a short bio of yourself headlines "She speaks for the angels..." with your phone number so if they are working on an angels story they might call you for a quote. And a covering letter in which you provide several interesting "hooks" for story ideas.
If this is all unfamiliar to you, then a good publicist can help. The idea is to create excitement around your specialty and to be prepared to give good ideas and quotes freely and quickly to any writer who is working on the subject. It is an art, but the cost/benefits are incredible if you hit it right.
Just remember the difference between an advertisement (you pay - you get to choose copy) and publicity (you suggest - they decide how to angle and write it).
You might also create an angels handout sheet which people can write to you for, and you can include information on the website with the sheet. It could be "The history of angels" or "Angels through the centuries" or quotes of famous writers on the subject of angels. Your website/store could also have this page, supplemented with additional material so you can say: "Visit abc.com for more inspirational sayings, and for great gift ideas."
The idea is to pick a niche and set yourself up as the expert in the field, and to promote this knowledge constantly. In tandem with the website, it will get promoted along with you and get lots of traffic from the right people - those interested in angels and gifts.
posted on January 2, 2002 11:07:22 AM new
I cannot tell all of you how thankful I am for your input and will check out each and every idea and start planning with the ones that will be viable for me. You all remind of the saying "Be not forgetful to entertain strangers for thereby some have entertained angels unawares..."
Wow! litlux, great stuff! I'm truly excited now that I have more directions to go. You asked at one point if this was all unfamiliar to me and my answer is that it is only unfamiliar until done the first time. It's my dream that I plan to follow and will do almost anything to get what I want.
Thanks so much for all the time. Are you in marketing or did you just pick up this wonderful stuff? Whichever, thanks so much for taking the time.
posted on January 2, 2002 07:56:00 PM new
The whole idea was to give you a fresh perspective and permission to be creative.
You are fortunate to be selling in a niche that is fascinating, and has people as customers with life long interests in angels. It can really provide a long range source of satisfation - and income - for you.
You asked if I had done marketing, and the answer is of course yes, but also retail, the arts, and I loved all of it except the retail which nevertheless had its inspirational moments, however.
My one suggestion on the retail end is to have more high priced items $50-100 than dollar to $10 items. Hard to pay the rent otherwise.
I have been slowly finding higher priced items to sell on ebay though I don't mind the low profit ones if there are enough of them. But odd as it may seem, I have more problems with $10 customers than with $100 ones. Seems to me it should be the other way around. Oh well.
posted on January 3, 2002 06:53:04 PM new
I agree that there is some good information given here and I thank those that contributed.
If you click on "What's New" at the top of this page and then on "Acquire New Buyers" it will bring you to Google AdWords. Then if you click on "Sign up Now" you can create and preview a test ad and you will see the costs. Small operations (like me) could max out a CC in no time.
posted on January 3, 2002 08:57:09 PM new
kiara, if you are careful with Adwords, it doesn't cost much at all, but I'm not sure the return is worth it because the cost is per impression not per click though as noted above.
Litlux, you could be starting a forum at that other place on Marketing strategies
posted on January 3, 2002 10:14:45 PM new
APPLAUDING!!! Excellent thread, full of great commentary.
Bestattic, your such a sweetie, I can just see you now taking these ideas and running full blast towards success. Good luck, and if ya need any help, let me know.
posted on January 3, 2002 10:16:22 PM new
Oh yes, it could be very costly, no doubt about it, or it could be very inexpensive with no return. That's why I was asking the questions about marketing campaigns. I have alot of great ideas to follow up on now, some that will be very cost effective.
If I sold vintage jewelry, I think I'd be tempted to do the Adwords though
Google has been very good to us, but I don't know if it has anything to do with adwords.
Oh, Litlux, in response to your comment about more expensive items to pay the rent - currently when someone purchases from us, the average is 5 items at a time, which helps and they return, which is even better. We are looking into some higher end angelic toys and into some manufacturing of our own too. We have more ideas floating in our heads that we are giddy from it all.
posted on January 4, 2002 10:16:24 AM new
litlux said:
"But odd as it may seem, I have more problems with $10 customers than with $100 ones. Seems to me it should be the other way around. Oh well."
We find this to be true as well.
In fact, the lower the dollar amount of the sale, the more likely the buyer is going to be a problem! There truly is a direct correlation.
I occasionally list things at 99 cents to close them out. However, our highest percentage of deadbeats is on 99 cent items. I'm seriously considering just tossing such items in the trash.
posted on January 4, 2002 07:32:45 PM new
litlux :I can sure ID with your B&M Retail experience ( I'm comming up on ten years myself ) I was curious if you had jumped from BM Retail to full-time ebay and how much success you've managed. I've thought about doing it but sure is hard to change busses without stopping both vehicles. How did you switch if thats what happened ?
Ed
posted on January 5, 2002 12:11:02 AM new
Hey Rob, I didn't see you there, we posted close to the same time, I think.
If I need help, I'll give you a yell. In fact I would like your opinion on a book that I'm considering adding to my inventory.
Email coming your way. Thanks for being here, great thread isn't it?
posted on January 21, 2002 07:30:30 AM new
Hi
I found this while surfing - nice reference. If you scroll down about half way you will see a link to submit your site to the major search engines for free. I worked for me on my B&M/internet site. Takes about a few weeks to notice, but free is free. Lots of other neat tips also. Sorry, I can't figure out how to make hot links on this board. I'll remember some day.
posted on January 21, 2002 08:48:44 AM new
Here is our marketing experience:
We've been listed with all the major search engines since forever. (I'm an Internet grayhair.) No impact on sales.
We signed up for AdVariant's free eBay campaign. We got 104 clickthroughs from 50485 impressions, and ZERO sales. We had a free gift teaser in the ad, so we could track prospects that came from this campaign.
We placed an ad in eBay magazine, in the classifieds. ZERO sales, not even any hits.
Listen up, kiddies and listen good:
If you go to Target and buy a bottle of shampoo, you can reasonably expect the shampoo will clean your hair when it's used.
If you go to Benihana and order a steak, you can reasonably expect the steak will be edible and have food value.
But if you go to [insert portal here] and pay for advertising, there are no such guaranteed results. Does it make sense to pay a lot for a product that may not work? NO!!!!
Advertising that is available to us eBay shlubs is priced MANY MULTIPLES more than its actual value.
Take that AdVariant campaign. I might be willing to pay to repeat the experience in hopes the first result was a one-time anomaly, but I'm not willing to pay a lot. I'd spend $5 on it. AdVariant wants $140. For $140 I can craft my own cross-category strategy for promoting my auctions. $140 buys a lot of eBay fees for auctions whose main purpose is to get people to look at my OTHER auctions. Sure, they'd be genuine auctions for genuine items, but at such good values that the bidder thinks they've stumbled onto a gold mine.
I think we need to be pulling in eBay bidders who don't look at the categories we frequent.
posted on January 21, 2002 10:17:49 AM new
Here is what has worked for me. These suggestions don't get blockbuster results, but they do get measurable results, and they are FREE.
1. Contact other noncommercial sites about your subject and try to exchange links with them. You will have to put a "Here are some other good links" area on your site.
2. Take advantage of the places that will submit your site to search engines for free. And go to search engines and follow their "submit your site" link.
3. Put an "email your questions/suggestions/requests here" feature on your site. This can get you information on what surfers are looking for, and you can possibly incorporate those items in your sales offerings.
