posted on January 6, 2002 03:37:21 PM new
I sell on eBay. I also buy up to 100 items or so a month with two different bidding ids. Here is what I don't understand about how sellers are transacting their auctions. If you do it this way, please explain to me why.
What I want as a buyer is a simple and easy conclusion to the transaction. Yet:
1. The sellers are bombarding me with useless multiple EOA emails that don't contain the information I need in order to pay for the item.
2. BIN sellers don't configure their auctions so that it is a true Buy It NOW, the empahsis being NOW.
Let me explain.
More than 80% of my winning bid auctions result in multiple automatically generated emails from the sellers that don't give me the shipping costs or the total amount due, much less mention of multiple purchases. First comes one from the seller via Paypal. Then comes the one from eBay. Then sometimes I get a third one, via Auction Watch, Andale or a another listing service I haven't heard of. And sometimes I get a fourth one from the seller's store or website, like Tias.com or the seller's personal dot com. Sometimes I get all four of these useless emails from a seller.
I email back with my name and address, requesting the total cost. I wait and give it another 24 to 36 hours. I will go into Checkout and click on the Request Total From Seller.
Sellers, why do you do this? What is your point? You really don't care how annoying these useless EOA emails are?
Next, BIN. If the seller has a BIN price, then why not say what the shipping costs are going to be and configure Checkout so I can use it. Look at all the sellers, big and small on eBay who are able to put the cost of shipping in their auctions. At the minimum, all it takes is having a 25 pound kitchen food scale, weighing the boxed item and figuring out a cost to cover shipping, packaging, insurance and handling. Tens of thousands of sellers are able to do it on eBay every day with no difficulty.
The smart sellers figure out the costs, state it in their Checkout or text, then the buyer takes BIN, clicks on the Checkout Button, then tells the seller that payment is being made however the seller wants it: Billpoint, Paypal, check, money order ... It is so easy this way. I click on BIN, I click on Checkout, I make an electronic payment and I am on my way, contact is made with the seller, payment is made, I don't have to worry about that transaction anymore. Some sellers don't have Checkout configured but they will still have everything the buyer needs to know on how to pay quickly contained in the text of the auction, typically using Paypal.
Now the other way of doing it, I click on BIN and that is it. I have to wait for the seller to contact me. Except I get these automatically generated EOA emails that tell me nothing. I respond. Nothing. Days later the seller finally makes contact. Now was that a BIN? No, it wasn't.
posted on January 6, 2002 04:29:13 PM new
Interesting. I haven't purchased much of anything on ebay since mid November. I don't buy nearly as much as you as I have probably purchased only about 200 items this past year.
But I was finding that buying on ebay was more and more work what with all the categories and the slow loading pages. Then I also found that the slow response from sellers was annoying. I don't like the automatically generated e-mails and forms either. It is another job to sort through it all, e-mail back for shipping charges, etc. and it takes the fun out of buying.
I prefer new sellers. They may not know much but they keep it really simple.
posted on January 6, 2002 04:36:08 PM new
I understand your frustration.
As a seller, I find more and more buyers want to chose between parcel post and priority. Usually this isn't a problem unless the buyer is, for me, outside of the US or the item is over five pounds (USPS charges by zone). So as much as I'd like to make a transaction a true Buy It Now, until I have the buyer's address, I can't give a final cost. I diligently try to not have more than one EOA sent.
As a buyer I hate the automatic EOAs. There is nothing worse than HAVING to respond to an EOA form so the seller can automate their shipping label especially when the same information was supplied by my payment with PayPal etc..And don't get me started on the multiple, useless, spam-like EOAs...
posted on January 6, 2002 05:00:03 PM new
I do not use automated emails. I send each one and wait if someone has bid on more than one item to tell them combined mailing costs. I was taught early on by a great EBAY person. It takes more time than an automatic email but it is so much more personal. I try to send out my end of auction emails within an hour of the auction end. I really love EBAY and have met very nice people through selling, buying and the message center.
posted on January 6, 2002 05:01:09 PM new
I am a seller. I usually have about 120-150 items a week. I list the shipping charges in my auctions. I send my own end of auction notice, normally within an hour of the auction ending.
I try my best to catch a bidder of multiple items, on do on occassion miss it on the first item but send a the second item EOA notice with both items and combined shipping. I do this my using filters in my excel spreadsheet and pull up each bidder at the time of sending the notice. On a night I have 20 - 25 auctions closing it may take me 1 - 1 1/2 hours to send them all out. Maybe slow but I think worth the time.
On BIN's, if I realize during the day that my item count went down, I check my closed items to see if there is a BIN immediately. If I do not notice, that evening when my auctions close, I will notice and send the EOA at that time.
As a buyer, I HATE automated EOA notices. So, as a seller, I refuse to use them.
I have had lots of winners pay me within minutes of the auction ending. BEFORE I have even sent the EOA notice. I love that!
If you do not like the EOA from ebay, go to your preferences and click the box so you do not get them.
My spouse recently won an item from a BIG RETAILER on ebay. I could not believe their EOA says CALL US and refer to item # 1234. That is the pits! Of course, you must respond during certain times of the day M-F. If I had they schedule it would be one thing but I don't, so now I have to find time during the day to call them. NEVER AGAIN!
posted on January 6, 2002 05:13:50 PM new
I just thought that I would add one more thing here.
Now I know why I have feedback from over 650 multipler winners! Not to mention all the multiple winners that leave feedback on only one items (because feedback only really counts on the first item they purchase). I am VERY pround of my repeat buyer feedback. I look at that when I am a bidder. If your bidders do not return, don't you ask yourself WHY?
posted on January 6, 2002 05:26:33 PM new
I like getting the end of auction email from eBay. It is because if I am paying through Paypal, I can click that email open and then copy and paste a lot of information into the Paypal form, starting with the seller's email address, then the title of the auction goes in, then the item number, then the link to the closed auction. The seller never provides all of that information even though they request payment through Paypal so I guess they expect the buyer to type it all in. Doing a copy and paste saves a lot of time.
And speaking of those Paypal emails, I realized that every auction I've won in the past few weeks where the seller has Paypal as a payment option, I've gotten one of those despicable automatic Paypal emails. Do the sellers know that these emails are going out under their name, that Paypal is linking to their closed auctions? Otherwise I can't imagine why a seller would want their buyers to receive those Paypal emails since there is no function to them.
And those online forms where the sellers want us to fill in our personal information just so they can generate a shipping label, I can see the merit if the seller has thousands of auctions ending at a time. But for the sellers who sell 50 to a hundred or so a month, it is contemptible to make buyers do their work for them. Hey, just do a copy and paste for the shipping labels like everyone else.
Then if you tell the seller you don't want to use their online data base form for whatever valid reasons you have, then the seller gets hostile.
I rarely buy from big volume sellers. That isn't the type of thing I am looking to buy. Most of the sellers with whom I win auctions are just small people. However in looking back at the last month or so, I realize that getting any type of personal email from the seller is not the norm anymore because more and more of the small sellers are using these online data bases. As a buyer, to me it makes Checkout look great in comparison because with Checkout at least I don't have to to scroll through pages of fill in this and that.
posted on January 6, 2002 07:36:32 PM new
hotcupoftea!
I understand exactly what your saying and as a seller I try to keep it as simple as possible! I generate an AW-WBN and I feel that's all it should take to give the seller all the info he/she need's! But what do I get after the WBN,and enough time to have received pymt? I'll get a checkout request form Ebay,I'll receive an email for a paypal payment request because they can't figure out paypal, after I've done everything I possibly can to keep it simple they insist on having me send them endless emails. Maybe your sellers are tired of all the requests and just send you multiple way's to complete the tran's because they figure in time your going to ask for them anyway!
posted on January 6, 2002 08:57:36 PM new
Just my two cents as a seller.....I also do not state shipping cost in my auctions because I like to give the buyer the choice of how they wish it to be shipped. If I did it the easy way, I would ship everything priority as all my supplies are free and delivered to my door.......but I find that the buyer usually wants to decide how they want it shipped and thus I have to wait to hear that from them. I also do not use an automated end of auction email....I manually mail out my own as it states all the information I need to quickly get their invoice out to them so the transaction can be effectively concluded.....What I get aggravated about is....my end of auction email is very simple.....it asks how they want it shipped (I state that if no special shipping is requested then I mail by priority), what their shipping address is and if they wish to add insurance. What I find it, my buyers will email me back with their shipping address and nothing else......so I send out their invoice with no insurance and packaged for priority mailing. Then when they get their invoice, all of a sudden they wish it to be repackaged for bookrate, or parcal post, some other way......this was aggravating to me that a buyer could not follow a simple email.....so now, I state in my end of auction email that I do not repackage items after the invoice is sent out. Seems to work very well now.....Guess I got off track......but thanks for letting me vent in this thread! ~smile~
posted on January 6, 2002 09:25:41 PM new
Do you think buyers are becoming overwhelmed by all the choices for shipping, for payments, checkout, forms, banners, categories, me pages, websites, and all the other clutter?
posted on January 6, 2002 09:38:09 PM new
This is so interesting and informative. Thanks to everyone for the comments.
I have thought I should try to automate, but didn't know how to do so without causing more emails for the buyer and from the posts, there is no way.
Until now, I have used cut & paste to send the EOA and all I change is the amounts of shipping. It takes little time. I tried to use the Ebay Invoice option and it seemed to take me more time than did my usual method of sending emails.
The thought of Paypal and others sending out emails without my knowledge or consent does worry me. I think I will ask my customers when I get started back listing.
It seems to me that the simpler you keep it the better.
posted on January 6, 2002 09:45:58 PM new
We live in an online world where we communicate by e-mail. Whether a machine or a live person sends the email doesn't matter, so far as it contains all necessary information to complete the transaction.
The default AW-WBN (which I use) is very simple and straight to the point. Buyer clicks a link in email, and fills a form telling seller method of payment and shipping options. Not all buyers send payment instantly, so this also let's the seller know buyer is still "alive" and will be paying. Finally, buyer sends payment and item ships -- that's what ecommerce is all about! If you don't want to fill any forms, walk to a brick & mortar store and buy there.
All this talk about databases ruining the personal touch is ridiculous. Ebay is a giant database. Everything which goes on Ebay is stored in a database. The same for Billpoint, Paypal, AuctionWatch...heck the whole internet.
I will like to sit down and personally type every EOA email, but frankly it is not efficient. However, I think sellers should minimize the amount of emails sent out. This can be done by going to all the various services they use, and turn off unnecessary or duplicate automatic notifications.
[ edited by springmoon on Jan 6, 2002 09:51 PM ]
posted on January 6, 2002 10:34:51 PM new
I send EOA notices as soon as possible, sometimes within minutes, no later than next day. I use a "signature" stored on Outlook, not really personal, but it only contains a link to my PayPal account, no advertising, no forms to fill out. I've noticed that buyers seem to be getting email for ebay and I don't know why, maybe they're using check out and I don't. Everything you need to know is in my auction description except international postage. I use AW to automatically notify buyer that I shipped and to send feedbac, and that is personal, I don't use the options supplied by AW. It's tough to say that the internet is personal in any way, but a little note unique to each purchase. If it takes a little longer and is a little less efficient so be it. I treat buyers exactly the same as I treat customers in my b/m store - Thanks for coming in, thanks for buying my item (in other words, I don't hold feedback), come back soon. It's called customer service.
posted on January 6, 2002 10:44:09 PM new
If you launch from AW, there is a box for you to write instructions. It appears on the left side of the form about half way down. In there you write, what information you want the buyer to know. I.E. I will email you as soon as I get the EOA notice from ebay. Please wait for my instructions.
With that when I get the EOA I send my buyer my EOA notice with the Price of the item plus I give the buyer a choice of mailing, unless it is something that HAS to go Priority Mail. I tell them to add that to their item price. At the end of this notice I ask the buyer to please respond by using this email with your name, address and preference of mailing so that I can get your package ready. Thank you and I hope to hear back from you within 3 days. I tried PayPal's automatic EOA and stopped it after the 1st one because she said she didn't like it. Usually my auction states my price for mailing which I try and get as actual as I can. I guess you have never bid on one of my auctions. I wish ebay would get rid of that check out form that comes up as soon as your auction goes off. I would like a counter in MY EBAY instead.
posted on January 6, 2002 11:47:49 PM new
I sell about 300 items a month now, and I do not use any automated EOA, or eBay checkout, etc.
It's all person-to-person, sometimes I have to send more than 1 e-mail depending on a person's location or shipping requirements, but it all works pretty directly & 99% simply & effectively with everyone. They appreciate the human contact I know that.
I have a formatted payment e-mail that contains all the necessary information, that's what they get.
I don't really believe all these automated things are trying to help the seller or buyer anyway, they are just companies trying to help themselves to a bigger share of your wallet.
posted on January 7, 2002 12:17:41 AM new
Everybody has great comments. I understand that every seller has preferences on how they like to conclude their auctions, as do the buyers. It is good to see these preferences being articulated and discussed in this forum.
Kiara wrote:
Do you think buyers are becoming overwhelmed by all the choices for shipping, for payments, checkout, forms, banners, categories, me pages, websites, and all the other clutter?
I am a seller, on eBay since 1998, so I shouldn't feel overwhelmed on the buying end. But yes, I am feeling overwhelmed. Ebay is like a speeding train; it keeps evolving faster and faster. And the subsidiary services, being created by companies eager to grasp some of the profits being generated by the e-commerce transactions, are pushing that train forward even faster.
I am not one to jump up and down and holler every time eBay introduces a new feature. I use it or I don't use it. However, what I really hate, is that every new feature seems to generate a whole bunch of new stuff by the complementary companies. An example of what I mean are these end of auction emails generated by Paypal. The program was designed by Paypal as an attempt to retain and gain more market share of eBay's electronic transfer payments. Which was basically a reaction to eBay's new feature, Checkout. And so what happens to me, the buyer, is I get deluged with unwanted emails for just about every auction I win.
The evolving technology should make it easier for the buyer, but it isn't. Actually I qualify that statement. When eBay introduces a new feature that can't relate to the complementary companies, like the new and improved Search functions, that makes my life easier. But the other stuff, some days I feel like I am wading through a mud hole. The subsidiary services, those companies have to be "new and improved" too so when those companies react to a new eBay feature, it generally means more emails to wade through, and "new and improved" sellers' requirements for concluding a transaction.
Going back to the litany of those online forms sellers require buyers to use, everyone who is reading this topic might think about these points:
1. Did the seller mention in the auction that the buyer would be required to conclude the transaction with a form on another online datebase? Most of the time the seller doesn't mention that pertinent little fact. And why? Because if the seller did write that requirement into the auction text some of us would choose not to bid.
2. If you complain to the seller about this requirement, guess what their answer is most of the time - it is that the online form is needed for their accounting. Ok, now do this. Go take a look at that seller's 30-day listing history. I am removing volume sellers from this discussion and I am only referring to small sellers. If you look at the seller's selling history the majority of the time you will find the seller lists less than 150-200 auctions a month, that maybe half sell, that average selling price is $5.00 to $10.00, so we are talking about a big whopping $500 to $1000 gross each month. Those are the sellers who need the buyers to go put their personal information into another online data base so that the seller can have new and improved accounting tracking.
My point is that eBay evolves with new technology. The complementary companies react with improvements. Sellers adopt new techniques to streamline their process. The result - more complexities imposed on the buyer.
I'm a small (very small) seller by comparrison but what I do is put a note in the eBay check out form advising that I will send them an email with checkout instructions (AW's) or they can use the eBay checkout if they want to pay upon auction closing.
I tried avoiding the eBay checkout but too many people are going to it automatically, particularly new users. It's just not worth the trouble to fight it.
If they use checkout, I either cut and paste into AW or just check it WBN received and move on.
What AW really - really needs is a way to combine mutiple auction wins. Recently I had a bidder win 4 of my auctions, then I was using "auto WBN" The poor buyer got 4 notices from AW and 4 from eBay and yet another one from me for combined shipping.
Way to much email. I use manual notices from AW now along with eBay checkout if they initiate it.
At least I can edit the AW WBN for multiple wins or other issue. Although AW will continue to show them seperately in post sales.
posted on January 7, 2002 03:32:35 AM new
I use the automated AW WBN because it is convenient, but I give the buyer the option of not completing the form. All my auctions are "free shipping" so the price is the price.
I get quite a few complements on the professionalism of my service (ebay feedback of 1300+ with many repeat buyers). Also, in my automated notice, I remind them of my storefront and urge them to shop for similar items and make an offer on them.
I find the best thing about buyers completing the info is that I know it is correct. I am sitting here this morning with Saturday's mail where I have once again received a payment with no note, ebay auction number, etc and my only hope is that they have filled out the form.
posted on January 7, 2002 10:04:14 AM newhotcupoftea makes some good comparisons. Some days I too feel like I am wading through a mud hole. I have also been on ebay since 1998 so is it because we are more aware of all the new features and services as they pop up around us?
What is ebay like to a newbie these days? The last few people I introduced to ebay show no interest in it at all and can't see the fascination. They are buying from web sites instead.
Comparing ebay to a speeding train is excellent. It is pulling lots of cars full of useless cargo and it keeps adding more. The passengers are all the sellers clinging on for dear life as the ebay train obviously has no brakes.
posted on January 7, 2002 10:19:30 AM new
Except BUY IT NOW means that you get to BUY IT NOW, not RECEIVE IT NOW. You cut out the bidding process and just pay the fixed price for the item, letting you start the POST-AUCTION process sooner.
Not everyone uses the Checkout "feature" of ebay. This was discussed when Checkout was first added, so to gripe about the Checkout not being used is silly.
I use automatic EOA notices and they are GREAT! If someone buys when I'm away from the PC, they are told where to go to provide their shipping information and can get a total if they aren't adding insurance or shipping out of the USA. VERY convenient for everyone.
posted on January 7, 2002 01:51:10 PM new
I totally agree with peiklk. My WBNs are going out while watching my favorite TV show, or when out for a movie. Do you think the buyers are in front of their PC waiting for WBNs? heck no!...only the instant payers. I will use whichever technology is available that will make running my business a lot smoother.
posted on January 7, 2002 02:40:13 PM new
Nice to hear a bidder who probably sums up why numerous other bidders have left eBay and other auction venues.
The whole idea of buying online is for speed and convenience. While checkout is clunky for traditional snail mail payments, a buyer should be able to pay and complete an auction without any further hassle when the auction is over. Sellers who do not email payment instruction to their bidders within a few hours of closing are alienating their customers.
Unless the lowest price or unique product is offered, I no longer consider eBay my first choice for buying something. 9 out of 10 times I can find it somewhere else on the web for less and without the frustration of non-customer service oriented sellers.
I love eBay and have made many good sales and buys on it, but I know many sellers just haven't got a clue how to do business.
posted on January 7, 2002 07:43:24 PM new
The simpler it is, the better, for both buyer and seller.
I am now using checkout as my preferred means of payment, which means I welcome Billpoint, and also Paypal, checks and money orders. Whatever is easiest for the customer.
When the auction ends, especially with a BIN, more than half the buyers pay within an hour or so via Checkout or Paypal so all I have to do is pack and ship, and confirm this to the buyer.
If no payment arrives, and checkout is not completed within a few hours, I send a Checkout invoice as my EOA.
90% of these invoices are paid within 10 days. That leaves about 5% of my sales unpaid and I send a reminder, then the NPB and finally file FVF on about 2% of my transactions.
I have a few customer options, but like to keep it as simple as I can.
Since most of my items are under 5 pounds, I include Priority shipping, but note in my auction listing that Media Mail is also available on request. So checkout always has a $3.95 or similar shipping fee.
I have eliminated insurance from any transaction under $40, using e-Delivery Confirmation since breakage is not a problem. Over $40 it is optional; Over $90 it is mandatory.
I was doubtful about checkout at first, and still think it could be improved; but the buyers seem to like it - a lot!!! - and I know who is paying MY bills, so that is that.
posted on January 7, 2002 09:30:33 PM new
Now that you have convienced my to use checkout, which one do I use. I tried PayPal and my buyer didn't like that. Should I join Billpoint? Most of my auctions end on Sunday night and I noticed today that the EOA notice from ebay didn't get to me until mid morning Monday. I have to go to work at noon. So little time that it is impossible to send them all all personally and correctly. If you would be so kind to tell me which one to use I will try it. Thanking you all in advance.
posted on January 8, 2002 04:47:21 AM new
It sounds like you have had many frustrating experiences as a buyer and I myself could say the same thing.
I have been selling on eBay for the past 3 years and I have never changed my way of handling the end of transactions. I never instituted automated checkouts with Andale, Paypal, Ebay or AuctionWatch. I just didn't trust they would do the job correctly and I also assumed correctly, they would just aggravate my buyers.
After every auction, I email the winning bidder with the item title & number in the RE of the email and I request they send me their shipping address, so I can compute shipping costs. Now I know this was one of your issues about not stating shipping costs in the auction. I always place an approximate cost in the auction, but since I ship large items, sometimes by freight carrier, I can never say for a fact what the exact cost is until I receive the buyer's shipping information.
After I receive their information, I send them a complete invoice which is very simple and has exactly three small paragraphs regarding the amount they owe and how they can pay.
I do not give bidders the option of shipping choices, as I usually calculate the best shipping rate if going between the Post Office or UPS and choose the most economical or who I believe will handle a particular item better. I may make an exception if the bidder cannot use one service or the other for some reason. I also NEVER send any package without insurance, so that is not an option either.
Once I receive payment and their package is on its way, they get another email from me, which indicates the status and requests that they contact me when they receive the item.
That is my end of auction - keeping it simple all the way.
I shudder to think about all the NEWBIE's out there who are getting as many end of auction notices from everywhere. No wonder they don't pay, they don't know what to do.
My philosophy has always been to Keep It Simple.
Those are just my comments and what works for me. However, I do sympathize with your situation.
