NWREBEL
|
posted on January 11, 2002 10:30:06 PM new
WE SENT $1023.74 TO A VENDOR WHICH WAS TAKEN FROM OUR BANK ACCOUNT ON JAN 8 2002 AND THEN PAYPAL EMAILS THE VENDOR TO INFORM WE CANCELLED THE ECHECK. GO TO THE URL BELOW FOR PROOF! WOW
http://www.swapselltrade.com/paypal_lies.htm
|
paypaldamon
|
posted on January 11, 2002 11:44:42 PM new
Hi,
Echecks take several days to clear. If there was an issue with the account, which you apparently have, the echeck would be canceled.
|
NWREBEL
|
posted on January 11, 2002 11:46:22 PM new
SO YOUR COMPANY CAN TAKE THE MONEY FROM AN FDIC BANK UNDER THE PRETENSE OF PAYING ANOTHER PAYPAL USER THEN DIVERT THE FUNDSS AT WILL? WOW THATS BOLD!
|
jessicapital
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:06:18 AM new
As the vender in this case, I find it unexcusable that your Company would use funds collected on my behalf as collateral for your problem with this person's account. Since these funds were collected as a promise of payment from this seller, as soon as you pulled them from the account, they belonged to me. The fact that your company outright lied to me and said the sender cancelled the payment is proof to your acknowledgement of this deceit.
Using my account and good reputation to acquire funds to assist you in your dispute with this seller, is a legal issue that is soon to be addressed.
This was my payment and not yours to do with as you saw fit. I believe once my lawyer, the better business bureau, and USBank finds out that you secured funds under the disguise of a payment to my account, you will find a change soon to follow in your Company's policy.
Either you release the funds that Mr. Kelly has already verified you received back to this person so he can pay his debt to me, or you complete the transaction and deposit the funds directly in my PayPal account. Sir, I understand you are coming into this issue late in the game, but the fact is that what your company did was illegal. Not only will it cost you my expenses to recoup the money, but you have lost 2 of your largest accounts as well as all who will listen to me from this point out. Your stand should not be to make excuses for PayPal's actions, but find out how you can fix the problem.
|
paypaldamon
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:26:00 AM new
Hi jessicapital,
Canceling the echeck would be similar to stopping a check. No funds would be removed from the person's bank account. Echecks take 2-5 business days to clear, so the money was not good, nor was it received in your account.
No funds have been gathered.
|
NWREBEL
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:37:32 AM new
http://www.swapselltrade.com/paypal_lies.htm
WHY DOES THE SCREEN SHOT FROM ABOVE SHOWING YOUR FIRM TAKING THE CASH? DOES US BANK LIE?
|
jessicapital
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:41:12 AM new
Hi Damon-
Yes, you would assume this to be true since this is the proper and legal way to do business. But not only have we verified that PayPal took these funds from this person's Bank Account, but that PayPal received the funds today. This was directly verified by Mr. Kelly in my phone conversation with him this afternoon.
Had you NOT accepted funds on my behalf, then we would not be having this discussion.
This e-check was sent on 12/28/01. (So much for your 3-4 business day theory) My account showed that funds would be released to me by 5:00 PM today. However, at 4:56 PM I received an email saying payment was cancelled by sender. This email coincides with the exact time you locked up the senders account.
Mr Kelly has already acknowledged that the funds need to be put in my account, but needed to "FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THE MONEY TO YOU". As I stated in previous post, instead of trying to defend PayPal's actions which we have already been proven to be outright illegal and acknowledged by a representative of your staff as wrong, why aren't you trying to find out how to solve the problem?
Please do not insult my intelligence with the theory that "If we did it this way, then there was a reason". If you would like to post an explanation, then please due your DD, as your responses to this point have done nothing but anger and insult me further.
|
litlux
|
posted on January 12, 2002 06:02:36 AM new
It is difficult to come to any conclusions since there are many details obviously missing.
I have read between the lines, and methinks there may be more to this than we have been told.
Sounds like one of those tv courtroom cases where the judge has to drag the full story out of the parties.
Not enough facts = neither sympathy, nor condemnation.
|
BananaSpider
|
posted on January 12, 2002 09:48:21 AM new
It has always been my experience that bank statements don't lie, PayPal does.
|
mrspock
|
posted on January 12, 2002 09:56:21 AM new
NWREBEL
hwo about posting your ebay id .....
spock here......
Live long and Prosper
[
|
dman3
|
posted on January 12, 2002 10:54:17 AM new
Keep in mind the E Check don't have to be canceled by the sender.
If there was some problem the E check could be canceled by paypal as well if the money had already been taken from the account there will be a period of days before the funds show back up in your checking balance.
The tranfer take just as long to your bank as it does from your bank 
What we don't know is there reason for canceling we only have one side of a story with four sides.
Remember as well if you are an unverifide paypal member your vender would have to go to there account to verfiy they will accept your payment at there own risk.
it is posiable that the vender did not go and accept the payment from you and when the tranaction was over paypal canceled your echeck payment to them in this case it would take 4 or 5 days for the funds to show back up in your account .
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com <br />
Email [email protected]
[ edited by dman3 on Jan 12, 2002 10:59 AM ]
|
quickdraw29
|
posted on January 12, 2002 10:57:17 AM new
jessiecapital says, "This e-check was sent on 12/28/01. (So much for your 3-4 business day theory) My account showed that funds would be released to me by 5:00 PM today. However, at 4:56 PM I received an email saying payment was cancelled by sender."
But paypadamon had said, "Echecks take 2-5 business days to clear, so the money was not good, nor was it received in your account."
Echecks are issued but take time to clear. So the echeck was sent on 12/28, and jessicapital had to wait until Jan 12 for the echeck to clear. Jessiecapital I don't understand your argument because you just verified the truth what happened yet you are arguing against it. Seems like a simple case of confusion.
The funds don't belong to you until the echeck clears.
|
NWREBEL
|
posted on January 12, 2002 10:57:43 AM new
Will be hard pressed to return any cash as I just left my bank and I closed my accounts all the way to prevent dipping into by paypal. My bank has informed me that there is no way paypal can do something heavy handed as we have moved our business funds to a secure location.
|
NWREBEL
|
posted on January 12, 2002 11:00:15 AM new
No matter what twist you add to the story line, US Bank states that on Jan 8 the check did clear my bank and the withdrawal amount is confimed by US Bank as it clearly shows paypal has the cash. Now I would suggest they return the money to the rightful owner who is Jessicapital.
|
dman3
|
posted on January 12, 2002 11:06:23 AM new
WOW that was a silly move if your story is true and there is over $1000 of yours floating around outthere paypal needs to return and cant then what ????
I myself would not walk away on any amount of money that large, if the Echeck was actual cash they could send you a check in the mail but since it seems the echeck didnt have time to clear its only a balance on paper they didnt get any cash to refund to you and now you no longer have an acount in the bank to fix the balance with seems to me the big winner here will be the bank in the end !!!
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
|
stopwhining
|
posted on January 12, 2002 11:10:33 AM new
nwrebel,
may be you can explain what paypal means when they said there are some unhappy customers of yours who either complained about you and /or initiate chargebacks?
i understand you are a drop shipper,your customers have to sign up for your service and i assume you will send items to their customers.
i seldom rely on my vendors to drop ship for me,as somehow it never turn out to be the way i expect it to be.
it seems to be very popular on ebay,kind of like arbitraging on wall street???
|
dman3
|
posted on January 12, 2002 11:17:27 AM new
And even then you complain about the amount of time this took you say you sent the Echeck on 12/28
Echeck takes up to 5 days to clear 12/28 was a friday this day dont count 12/29 and 30 was weekend not business days they dont count monday and tuesday were holiday they dont count either so 3 waiting day was 1/2 a wenesday to 1/4 friday then the weekend your 5 day hold over was on 1/8 makeing five business days for the echeck.
Paypal told you the money would be there in the account by 5 PM but before that time something went wrong and the Echeck was canceled before it was clear now it would take up 5 days to show back up in the checking balance.
monday or tuesday of next week would make the time period for the money to rebalance in your account.
I dont see the problem here !!!!
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
|
NWREBEL
|
posted on January 12, 2002 11:22:35 AM new
http://www.swapselltrade.com/paypal_lies.htm
FOR ALL YOU DOUBTERS, A FEDERAL REGULATED BANK WWW.USBANK.COM CONFIRMS ON JAN 8 PAYPAL TOOK THE CASH FROM MY ACCOUNT AND IT CLEARED, JAN8,2002. PAYPAL CANNOT DENY THIS IS THE CASE. PEOPLE ASK WHY DID I CLOSE MY ACCOUNT? WHEN A DOT COM IS FINANCIALLY GRASPING FOR STRAWS WITH NO REGULATION WOULD YOU GIVE THEM FREE CONTROL OVER YOUR ACCOUNTS WHEN THEIR IS A DISPUTE? IF YOUR SAFE WITH THAT APPROACH THEN I WISH YOU THE BEST!
|
dman3
|
posted on January 12, 2002 11:28:11 AM new
I don't think paypal was caught redhanded here at anything but doing what they should.
I also dont see where they are holding anyones money as the money is not in there account or your it has just been out there floating neither in your account or thiers the check payment was canceled last min so it will take 5 or so more days to land bank in the bank AHHH but you just complicatedthing even more by canceling your checking account how ever I think on monday or tuesday you will get a call from the bank letting you know its not done or they will mail the funds and it will take more time for it to catch up to you .
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
|
REAMOND
|
posted on January 12, 2002 11:28:30 AM new
Closing your bank account is the first thing you want to do if Paypal starts any funny business.
If you read the terms, Paypal can take any amount they wish from your bank account if Paypal deems it necessary.
Then you have to wait until Paypal sees fit to return your money.
Another thing that came up in the IPO reports is that Paypal relies on their software to detect fraud. This software can indeed mark honest accounts for freezing.
The problem is that the customer is placed in finanacial Hades until a human can figure out what is what.
There are obvious risks in keeping large amounts in your Paypal account as well as Paypal having access to your bank account. Paypal is not FDIC insured. If Paypal goes belly up, you stand in line for your money just like the rest of the creditors.
If all goes well, Paypal works fine, but if there is a glitch, you are open to finanacial ruin.
Paypal will gear their system to police fraud in a manner that protects Paypal. The customer will just have to wait while funds are rightly or wrongly frozen or removed from your bank account until someone can revue the situation. But remember, having a human revue an account costs money, and Paypal would rather leave your account frozen than hire more people to revue accounts. After all, it costs Paypal nothing to freeze your account, but it can cost you a lot.
|
jessicapital
|
posted on January 12, 2002 11:41:37 AM new
Quickdraw-
It's very simple. Once we were informed that the sender cancelled payment, we contacted the sender. We verified with him as well as USBANK that the funds were secured by PayPal. We then verified with PayPal that they received these funds.
The fight we are having with PayPal is that they believe they have the right to this money to use against the sender, and no obligation to pay me with these funds.
So let me ask all of you. NWRebel sends you a check for $1023.74 for payment of a debt to you. You then have an associate take it to the bank to cash it for you, but instead of giving you the money once he cashes it, he puts it in his pocket and states "NWRebel owes me some money, so since I was the one to cash the check I am keeping this payment, you'll have to get him to send you a new one"
This is what has happened.
It has nothing to do with an e-check's clearing time or whether or not the funds were available. THESE FUNDS WERE TAKEN BY PAYPAL AND VERIFIED TO BE IN PAYPAL'S POCESSION.
|
dman3
|
posted on January 12, 2002 11:56:46 AM new
Wrong the only thing you verfide here is that the e check was canceled Thats all..
it didnt have to be canceled by the sender it can just as well be canceled by paypal.
if paypal froze this persons account for some reason usually CC fraud of some type or a number of complaints against them all there Funds and transfers are frozen.
if a creditor of yours got a Freeze on your checking account in a judgement against you this would include any outstanding cash and undeposited checks from your account it also would include any deposits you make it to the account after that date untill the credits claim against you was made good or paid up.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
Email [email protected]
|
stopwhining
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:14:56 PM new
if the money is floating somewhere and you have already closed your account,and you think it will hit your bank monday or tuesday and your banker will call and forward that money to you??
well,i will call the bank instead than waiting for them to call me.
NWREBEL,WHY DID YOU CLOSE THE ACCOUNT,WHY CANT YOU JUST TAKE ALL YOUR MONEY OUT OF THE ACCOUNT??
|
jessicapital
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:18:42 PM new
Don't pretend to know more about my account than I do. I spoke with Mr. Cabot Kelly. He VERIFIED that PayPal received these funds once he was confronted with the statement from USBank. He has also stated that he would figure out a way to deposit the funds to my account.
I realize this fact ruins your PayPal 'Call to Arms'.
This money is not 'floating' around anywhere, it is safely tucked away at PayPal. Regardless of why the senders account was frozen, this money was removed from a FDIC Bank on MY behalf. Legally, once this money was released by USBank, they can either use it for it's intended purpose or return it to the Bank. THEY CAN NOT KEEP THE FUNDS TO USE AT THEIR DISCRETION.
As to your statement that:
"if a creditor of yours got a Freeze on your checking account in a judgement against you this would include any outstanding cash and undeposited checks from your account it also would include any deposits you make it to the account after that date untill the credits claim against you was made good or paid up."
THIS CHECK WAS NOT UNCLEARED, AND THE CASH IS NOT OUTSTANDING AS I OWE PAYPAL NOTHING.
For your statement to be pertinent here, you would have to believe that a creditor then has the right to go back to every person who has CASHED A CHECK from me and get that money back.
Furthermore, the key part of the statement here is "if a creditor of yours got a Freeze on your checking account in a judgement against you"
A court of law must grant the ability to freeze assets, or a FDIC insured institution. PayPal is far from either of these and if you think they should have the ability to make a judgment on whether they can keep payments made to you and use for their own purpose, then you feel free to keep your money with them.
|
paypaldamon
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:30:34 PM new
Hi REAMOND,
This statement is incorrect---please make accurate statements.
"If you read the terms, Paypal can take any amount they wish from your bank account if Paypal deems it necessary. "
I don't have access to the account records to make a firm statement (I am not in the office). But, if NW REBEL started an echeck, the echeck would not clear to the other party for 2-5 business days (depending on the ach clearing process). The item could show as out of the bank, but it has not cleared into our system at that point.
|
jessicapital
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:36:11 PM new
Damon-
Please check when you return to office. Cabot Kelly confirmed with me by phone the funds were received by PayPal on 1/11. He has stated that he will get the money into my account, but had to figure out how to do it since the sender's account was locked.
My only concern is that PayPal either forward these funds to me or return them to the sender so I may recoup funds from him.
Thank You-
|
NWREBEL
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:37:57 PM new
Damon in any respect, why would paypal email Jessicapital and tell him that I cancelled the echeck moments after paypal closed my account? How do I cancel an echeck when the account is locked? Furthermore if I recall correct you no longer have the option within the control panel to cancel an echeck due to people scamming people by taking goods and then stopping the echeck?
|
NWREBEL
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:42:57 PM new
With respect to the funds that paypal is holding as verified by a fdic bank, they need to be given to Jessicapital as they are rightfully his. You will have no option of returning any funds to any bank info you have on file as I have closed the bank accounts and opened new ones at a totally different bank. Its paypals obligation to give Jessicapital the money they deserve.
|
REAMOND
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:45:21 PM new
All had better pay close attention to the TOS at Paypal and how the transactions work.
This "echeck" was paid by the bank to Paypal not jessicapital.
The chain of ownership of the funds goes from the bank to Paypal THEN to the payee at Paypal's descretion.
There is no clear claim of fiduciary position towards Paypal dealing with the funds. Paypal owns the funds in the accounts until Paypal disposes of them at their will.
Paypal is not a bank with demand deposits owned by others but in the bank's custody. Paypal is a hybrid clearinghouse in which Paypal owns all the funds in the accounts pending any disposition by Paypal at the member's request.
Heed my words, if you deal with Paypal as a bank, which it appears some are, you may be disappointed and financially ruined.
|
twinsoft
|
posted on January 12, 2002 12:45:54 PM new
Dman, you need to understand how Paypal works, and how to interpret "Paypalese."
This would be my best guess as to what happened:
Paypal contacts NWRebel and says, "we need to keep some money as a retainer against possible CC chargeback."
NWRebel says no.
NWRebel then attempts to send payment to JC in an unrelated transaction.
Paypal pockets the money and claims that the transaction never occurred.
Oh, sure, maybe some day the situation will be resolved. But in the meantime, Paypal sits on the money. This is the way they "float" the interest. By simply grabbing a user's account on some ridiculous pretext. If Paypal were a regulated bank, they could never pull this kind of crap.
We went through this scenario repeatedly back when Paypal allowed itself to freeze a $1000 account over a $10 dispute. Paypal got nailed by the BBB over it, and was forced to change their policy. But not for long, apparently, as Paypal has invented a new pretext to grab a user's money. Does this really surprise anyone?
|
