posted on January 14, 2002 01:21:32 PM new
Well I finally got burned on shipping by a seller.
Charged $10 to ship a book, sent media rate for $3.58 - and shipped in an inside out Priority box. No insurance.
It would have been less than $10 to send Priority or First Class insured.
If they keep it up, they'll ruin all of us. Remember few people associate their bad experience with a "seller", they associate the bad experience with eBay.
posted on January 14, 2002 01:43:37 PM new
Reamond, I agree with you but what you will get here are a lot of "you should have read the tos".
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sellers ripping off buyers with handling charges are ruining ebay. i don't care about the time it takes to put an item in a box. i don't care how much gas it takes to drive to the post office.
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more than 50 cents handling charges is a rip off!!!!!
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if a buyer gets ripped off with excessive shipping charges or rude service, etc, they tell all their friends not to buy on ebay because they had a bad experience.
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these sellers who don't think their trash will make enough in bids so they add extra shipping charges, should give it to the goodwill instead.
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and don't start with the "read tos or don't bid" crap!!! <br />
[ edited by rarriffle on Jan 14, 2002 01:51 PM ]
posted on January 14, 2002 01:56:42 PM new
I agree with both of you on the basic issue, but disagree with the "more than .50 is a ripoff" statement.
Do you know what your actual cost is to ship a package? If you do it professionally, it's more than .50. I guarantee it. My raw cost is almost $1.00 per package, actually more.
Packing Peanuts, postage meter supplies and leases, preprinted labels, warehousing and the likes are all legitmate factors which impact the cost of packaging and shipping an order. This issue can be argued forever, but it would be foolish as a seller to ignore these costs. They are real and we, as shippers, have a right to a reasonble shipping markup to cover these costs. Every catalog seller captures these expenses on way or another. Why shouldn't we be able to? After all, it's just good business.
posted on January 14, 2002 02:03:21 PM new
Maybe the seller overestimated the cost. $3.58 media rate means it was a big book. If the seller is used to paying $10 to ship big items, they may not have realized how much cheaper media rate really is.
posted on January 14, 2002 02:06:37 PM new
Just wait till the post office raises the rates this summer. I know as a buyer there is no way I am paying those proposed fees.
posted on January 14, 2002 02:20:42 PM new
Maybe the seller stated FIXed shipping .
Not actual shipping.
Thats how most people work shipping today on auction I have been doing it for the last year myself and the more I surf through auction the more I find Fixed shipping stated.
I change $4.00 fixed Shipping On everything up to 2 Lbs no matter how I ship the Item, this beats Ajusting for zones and other things when you would have no Idea where the buyer will be from.
$4 for up to 2 Lbs, $6 for 3 to 4 pounds ECT. Fixed shipping my fixed price are tame compared to some BMG music club is Chargeing $4.52 fixed shipping right now for media rate to send A CD and $11.76 to ship 3 CDs togeather.
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com <br />
Email [email protected]
[ edited by dman3 on Jan 14, 2002 02:24 PM ]
posted on January 14, 2002 02:36:28 PM new
Turning the Priority Mail boxes inside out and shipping at a lower rate is against the law. It's printed right on the box that they must be used for USPS Priority Mail. Take it to your local Post Office and file a complaint against this seller. This is exactly why the rates are skyrocketing again.
posted on January 14, 2002 03:03:07 PM new
When I read the TOS of $10 shipping I would rightly assume that the $10 is somehow associated with and reflective of the shipping manner. I do not expect the shipping to be exactly what the actual cost is, but a 60% profit on the shipping is plain abusive.
posted on January 14, 2002 03:27:25 PM new
To speed up the closing of my auctions, I state a fixed rate for shipping. That way, my bidder knows their total before they bid. If my actual shipping cost is slightly less, then it helps pay for my bubble wrap and/or peanuts. However, the other day, I sold an item with which I have no experience. I set a higher than usual shipping cost as I consider this cast iron toy quite heavy, and of the two toys I sold, a single bidder won both. Then paid for both using ebay's checkout. I packed the items together, and then refunded the bidder almost $5.
I prefer to see a set shipping price stated in the auction. If I feel the shipping cost is too high for the item, then I adjust my bidding accordingly.
Not my name on ebay.
[ edited by Valleygirl on Jan 14, 2002 03:28 PM ]
posted on January 14, 2002 03:36:37 PM new
You might concider that $10 shipping price abusive but like I said this is tame.
Them CD BMG charges $4.52 to ship media mail only cost them $.95 postage there is no insurance and no DC Just shipped in a small cheap piece of paper board.
posted on January 14, 2002 04:14:16 PM newI would rightly assume -- reamond, you know what they say about people who ass-u-me...
anyway, I'm definitely switching to FedEx Ground after the the postal hikes. Their shipping label don't show any dollar amount so a buyer is less likely to complain. In my personal experience, buyers complain more about delayed shipping time than postage and packaging rates.
posted on January 14, 2002 04:17:38 PM new
>>Every catalog seller captures these expenses on way or another. Why shouldn't we be able to? After all, it's just good business.
I don't think it's a question of whether or not a small business should cover its shipping costs -- it should. It's more a question of how it's presented to customers. Companies that obviously overcharge for shipping have elected to expose their tactic to potential buyers. That's their choice. Some of the potential buyers will not buy because of it. That's their choice. Some won't know any differently or care.
Ultimately, the only thing that really sells is instant gratification. Those customers who elect not to buy to achieve it cost the seller money. Those customers willing to bear a visible, added cost get what they want, and the seller benefits. Who's right? Only you can say what works for you.
In America, everyone has an equal right to be as sneaky, forthright, intelligent, stupid, or indifferent as they choose to be. This applies equally to buyers and sellers, and therein lies the art of the merchant. It has always been so.
Listing Techniques that Circumvent eBay's fee structure Users may not use systems or techniques to circumvent eBay fees. Some examples include:
-Offering in a listing the opportunity to purchase the item or other merchandise outside of eBay.
-Listings with low prices but unreasonably high shipping or handling costs
The italics section is about half way down the page. Looks like fee avoidance by charging a huge handling fee. That's alot of handling for a book.
posted on January 14, 2002 05:48:51 PM new
if a seller runs a business like a business,he is figuring there are some cases shipping will exceed 10,some will be under 10.
so in the long run,he comes out okay.
of course you look at the postage stamp and the box he used,you want to play his cost accountant!!
the most important issue here is did the book arrive in a timely manner in the condition you expect??
you dont keep the box,it is not a beauty show.
it is possible that your seller find out first class is too expensive,i think now if it is over 1 lb 13 oz,it has to go priority,so he decides to move down the ladder and ship media.
i sell books on amzn and i sell some very nice heavy books,amzn does not give me enough credit for shipping a book first class,sometimes not even media rate,and i often pad intl shipping out of my own pocket.
overrall i do okay,no win no gain on shipping.
posted on January 14, 2002 05:50:16 PM new
I would do what Banana Spider suggested. Take the box to the Post office and file a complaint. Question? After a priority box is used once can you turn it inside out and use it again? I have always wondered that.
posted on January 14, 2002 06:56:25 PM new
Hm. For the first time ever someone mentioned shipping cost in my FB. Something like "and realistic (or, 'reasonable') shipping cost.
When the WTC murders occurred, I asked buyers if they could accept Priority Mail as the only option. People were very nice.
posted on January 14, 2002 06:59:08 PM newsellers ripping off buyers with handling charges are ruining ebay. i don't care about the time it takes to put an item in a box. i don't care how much gas it takes to drive to the post office.
It's a two way street. Seller's time is worth money. Don't bid on my auctions.
posted on January 14, 2002 07:11:46 PM new
It's not fee avoidance. eBay definitely does not care if they charged you $10. Even $20 probably won't raise an eyebrow. It has to be really wacked like $50. I pointed out where a seller was charging $15.00 to ship a CD and they could have cared less.
The question I have is whether or not the book plus shipping was a fair amount overall. If it is not and the shipping amount was quoted, you should not have bid as much. If the total was fair, I agree it was a out of line, but not worth any tears.
posted on January 14, 2002 09:00:47 PM new
<According to USPS, it can be used or reused but for Priority Mail only.>
You can use used Priority Mail boxes for anything you want, including regular mail. The Postal people are not dumb, they know what is going on when you bring in such a box.
Actually, Ebay encourages selling these cheap and recuping these costs with postage charges. Just go to their half.com. They charge a straight $3.00 per book or something. There are thousands of books for sale there for 1 cent. These people make their profit on the shipping charges with Ebay's blessing.
posted on January 14, 2002 09:02:14 PM new
<According to USPS, it can be used or reused but for Priority Mail only.>
You can use used Priority Mail boxes for anything you want, including regular mail. The Postal people are not dumb, they know what is going on when you bring in such a box.
Actually, Ebay encourages selling these cheap and recuping these costs with postage charges. Just go to their half.com. They charge a straight $3.00 per book or something. There are thousands of books for sale there for 1 cent. These people make their profit on the shipping charges with Ebay's blessing.
But, the main thing is that the seller was upfront with the postage charge. I simply factor in the postage charge before I place my maximum bid. No one has forced me to bid.
posted on January 14, 2002 10:55:38 PM new
"Just go to their half.com. They charge a straight $3.00 per book or something. There are thousands of books for sale there for 1 cent."
That is wrong info. They charge actual shipping/no handling/no packaging fees/no profit on shipping. Paperbooks are $1.78 media; Hardcover are $2.24. It's possible a real tiny book could ship for less than the $1.78, but quite a few books costs more than the $2.24 which the seller absorbs.
Also, I don't think you will find any 1¢ books on half because the minimum is .75¢, although some older listings remain from before this new minimum. Still, the seller pays fees and is lucky to make a dime of profits on these under $1 books.
posted on January 15, 2002 03:35:52 AM new
there was a thread awhile back about turning priority boxes inside out. the originator of the thread had been charged priority charges for a heavy package that had been shipped parcel post. the package came with a note from the usps explaining the use of a priority box. the shipping difference was a substantial amount.
if a seller asks a shipping/handling charge and i feel it is fair, i will still bid.
if i see that the seller is gouging on shipping, i bookmark these sellers so i won't even look at their items.
you all know that buyers, especially newbies, don't read the whole listing before bidding. if they get gouged on shipping many of them will never bid again. every bidder that is lost, is lost to all of us.
I understand that many of you have to pay for shipping supplies and peanuts. I have been very lucky on this and get most of mine free. I do not charge a handling fee unless it is to have the item packaged professionally. if this happens I list that in my auction.
to remark on what BMG or some other company like that charge for shipping makes no sense. if people wanted to pay those charges, they would be shopping there and not on ebay.
with sales slipping the way they currently are, i think we should be doing all we can to make bidders happy. JMHO
posted on January 15, 2002 04:42:10 AM new
Just myself but if I'd seen a book that had $10 shipping (and I have) I'd have clicked the "back" button.
>>>Them CD BMG charges $4.52 to ship media mail only cost them $.95 postage there is no insurance and no DC Just shipped in a small cheap piece of paper board<<<<
And that is why I quit their club and get my CD's off eBay. And that is exactly what I told them when they called to ask me to come back. My reply went in one ear and out the other with the salesperson trying to convince me that I should still re-join to which I answered by hanging up the phone.
Many times I have gotten burned as a seller with shipping by underestimating the shipping. I had a recent auction where I sold two pairs of jeans and I asked for $4.80 shipping. It came to $7 and odd cents. I just ate the cost. As a bidder I *always* consider the shipping before bidding and if it sounds absurd, then I move on. Finding something on eBay a second time is not hard to do.
posted on January 15, 2002 06:32:07 AM newYou can use used Priority Mail boxes for anything you want, including regular mail.
This is printed right on the box, in English and Spanish.
This packaging is the property of the U.S. Postal Service and is provided solely for use in sending Priority Mail. Misuse may be a violation of federal law.
When you order Priority Mail supplies in bulk from USPS.com, you receive a card that you must sign and return stating that you understand this law.
posted on January 15, 2002 08:53:34 AM new
"you all know that buyers, especially newbies, don't read the whole listing before bidding. if they get gouged on shipping many of them will never bid again. every bidder that is lost, is lost to all of us."
According to this logic, if a person receives bad service at Bill's Pizza, He may also stop going to Joe's Pizza. too?
I don't belive that happens. A has nothing to do with B.
posted on January 15, 2002 09:16:57 AM new
I have bot some jewelry on ebay and i paid enough shipping for them to place it in a box and shipped usps priority and insured and with dc.
but they choose to use a padded envelope with no insurance,and may be a dc.
these sellers are taking a chance of chargeback and NEG if items are lost or damaged.
ebay is not what it used to be for sellers,too much competition and not enough of a bidding war,so shipping is a place where they can recoup losses for items listed with no bids,and slim margin for those with bids.
not playing confucius,just a pragmatic statement,many are doing it to defend their bottom line.
someday an angry bidder could do chargeback and claim he never receive the item and it will wipe out their profit from the sale of item plus the shipping extra they kept
posted on January 15, 2002 10:20:04 AM new
""you all know that buyers, especially newbies, don't read the whole listing before bidding. if they get gouged on shipping many of them will never bid again. every bidder that is lost, is lost to all of us."
According to this logic, if a person receives bad service at Bill's Pizza, He may also stop going to Joe's Pizza. too?
I don't belive that happens. A has nothing to do with B."
Well, contrary to your expectations of human behavior, this kind of "illogic" does, in fact, happen. I've seen it. Someone gets burned on ebay by seller A, and swears it off forever. Sad but true.
And its not necessarily that illogical. If you buy one item, and get burned, its not that unreasonable an assumption that the percentage of scum sellers on ebay is high enough that you just don't want to bother.
You can't compare retail stores (pizza places) with ebay sellers. Pizza places are relative few (most people only have a few near them), they tend to have a reputation that circulates in the local area, they tend (mostly) to be customer oriented since the costs of not doing so (going out of business) are high, etc. Contrast that to ebay sellers, who number in the hundreds of thousands, who come and go, and who can easily afford to screw one customer and then either appear as another seller or still continue shoddy service to other buyers.
posted on January 15, 2002 11:02:40 AM new
"Well, contrary to your expectations of human behavior, this kind of "illogic" does, in fact, happen. I've seen it. Someone gets burned on ebay by seller A, and swears it off forever."
We should not concern ourselves with extremist if they leave ebay, whether it be a seller or buyer. All the better for the rest of us. They are costly to please.
I had an extremist buyer once. She complained to me about every seller she ever bought from. Not surprisingly she later complained about me (item not what she expected despite the description was detailed ). I left her a neg. She quit ebay right after. The best thing to happen to ebay.
