posted on April 17, 2002 11:35:19 AM new
Last month I received an e-mail from Safeharbor advising me that I had 19 of the same item listed which was a violation of the listing policy. They were kind enough to inform me that they would let it go this time but future violations would result in my auctions being ended and my possible suspension from eBay.
I am a Gold powerseller and at any given time I have 2-3 thousand auctions listed. Last year I paid $63,000 in fees to eBay. I was niave enough to think that the form letter nasty gram was something I could discuss with them. I called and spoke with my powerseller rep. and she told me that there was nothing she could do and transferred to me to the manager of powerseller escalations. I explained to them the letter that I had received. The problem being that once I launched an auction I removed it from inventory and would relist it until it sold. At any given point I have no way of knowing how many of a given item I have running in auction. Furthermore I have 3,224 auctions running, so what if 19 of them are the same? I was again told a rule is a rule, if it happens again we will end your auctions. I posed the question why is there a limit of 10 of any given item? The answer was "to keep sellers from unfairly competing with each other" now I ask you does that make any sense at all? The next question that I asked is "Are you willing to loose my business over this?" Without hesitation they responded that while I "am a valued member of the community" they would indeed inforce the rule at the cost of my business.
I thought about it for a while and decided that a rule was a rule, and I should do my best to comply. I upgraded to Sales Manager Business Edition so that I would be able to see the number of any given item I had running in auction, the number pending etc. to insure that I didn't violate the rule. While I was at I decided to redo all the auction pictures and HTML. It was a huge undertaking and I had no auctions run for 3 weeks. As part of the new auction layout I included a link to my AuctionWatch Gallery. I started launching auctions and within an hour I get another safeharbor notice, advising me that my AuctionWatch Gallery link was in violation. I respond with the two click rule and actually get a letter of apology acknowledging that I was in fact not in violation.
A week goes by and I just received ANOTHER safeharbor warning. This time the problem is not the link itself, but a violation of fee avoidance, the link itself is ok, but now I am violating the fee avoidance rule because it takes customers to a website were items can be added on without eBays fees being paid. I respond with the 2 click rule again, they respond that no this is a seperate issue, bottom line being take the link out or else.
In four years of being on eBay I have never heard from Safeharbor, now I get 3 warnings in 30 days? Whats up with that? Is anyone else having these problems?
posted on April 17, 2002 11:57:18 AM new
I don't get ebay why would they care with all the money you pay them, does that mean the rest of us who have aw store are in violation also? Curiosity gets the best of me what do you sell, so many listings... Wow
posted on April 17, 2002 11:58:28 AM new
Someone is reporting you to Safe Harbour. eBay do not police auctions, they rely on sad members with nothing better to do with their time to do it for them.
Also it could be one of your competitors trying to get rid of some competition.
posted on April 17, 2002 12:06:02 PM new
eBay has joined the culture which in the past has included IBM, AT&T, Microsoft, U.S. Steel, American Tobacco, Standard Oil.
That is, "We are so big, and have crushed all the competition, that we can do anything we want."
Unfortunately, their thinking is accurate. Every one of those companies enjoyed decades of unremitting domination in their field. And there's nothing we can do about it.
posted on April 17, 2002 01:45:59 PM new
I agree with the folks who say that someone is turning you in, possibly a competitor. It could also be a disgruntled customer, maybe someone who also sells on eBay. Such a person knows how to push eBay's buttons.
I don't see any alternative for you than to remove the link from your auctions. Plenty of other people use it -- I came up with 20000 auctions doing a search on "auctionwatch gallery" -- but you are high profile.
I would advise registering as many as a half-dozen more selling IDs with eBay and split up your items among the IDs. This won't help with eBay that much (if one ID gets suspended it's against the rules to use the others) but it will lower your profile. Plus most eBayers are too dense to figure out how to find a specific seller using a secondary or tertiary ID. Alter the look and feel of the auctions enough so there are no obvious clues.
posted on April 17, 2002 01:55:59 PM new
I sell plush collectibles. AW is working on it. It appears that the problem is the fact that I mention that "We have hundreds of items to add to your order", in addition to the actual gallery link.
I do beleive that one of my competitors is indeed complaining to safe harbor. First they steal my pictures and then they copy my auction description word for word to use in there own auctions and the last step must be to complain to safeharbor.
I actually had someone send me a PayPal payment from an auction they won from someone else. The auction included a picture that had my user name on it and the wording was identical to my auctions, and having bought from me many times before they assumed it was me and sent the payment to my PayPal address.
Fortunately most people are intelligent enought to crop my name out of the picture. This last time around I decided to leave it off, that way when they steal the picture I don't have to worry about them not cropping the name off. I don't want my customers to beleive that I am affiliated with another seller, so this seemed to be the easiest way.
I have once again escalated this with eBay and the jury is still out, a final decision is pending. It just blows my mind that these guys could care less rather they retain me as an account or not. The sad fact is that unless I open a retail storefront I really have no viable place to go.
posted on April 17, 2002 02:30:55 PM new
Yep, sadly it is most likely a competitor of yours, or a 'reseller' someone who buys off ebay and lists it themselves, I guess thinking they will get a higher price.
Maybe they did, and didn't get a good price, and did this, who knows
I got lessee 10 'ask the seller a question'eamils in a row, going down my list. First 'who made this'? then 'who is my wholesaler' over and over again... she ended up buying 3 items. Then I get, from a repeat buyer, 'suggestions', that if I would do this or that with my pictures, they would look so much better' LOL! Yep she resells everything she buys.
One Powerseller bought something from me with a Buy it Now, and took her own picture of it...describing it as 'one of the nicest she has seen' yeah.... and left me no feedback, uh, she didn't get enough money for it to justify the $$ she paid me for it.
It takes all kinds, and thats true, ebay doesn't have the time or staff to police all auctions, and I truley believe its got to be another ebayer.
I, too sympathize with whats happening to you.. Good luck!
posted on April 17, 2002 03:00:50 PM new
Doesn't anyone see eBay's side of it? Is it fair for a huge powerseller or any seller it list 19 of the same item at once? A buyer puts some criteria in the search engine and here come 19 of the same exact item to wade through from the same seller. The other sellers selling the same item are are a definite disadvantage. You may pay eBay $63K in fees but eBay allows you the chance to make mega bucks at their site. They are a monopoly. What will you do if they give you the boot for breaking the rules? Go to Yahoo? or Bidville?
If a seller is breaking the rules they should be warned and then booted. If they are diverting sales away from eBay they should be warned and then booted.
In the real world if you are a big seller the malls or whatever kiss your butt to keep you but on eBay you are equal to the little sellers because eBay has a total monopoly.
posted on April 17, 2002 03:03:00 PM new
[i]Then I get, from a repeat buyer,
'suggestions', that if I would do this or that with my pictures, they would look so much better' LOL! Yep she
resells everything she buys. [/i]
Am I understanding that this buyer wants you to take nicer pictures for her to steal?
posted on April 17, 2002 04:13:38 PM new
I believe she is
One day, when I had time, I went through her past bidding, and then her current selling, and she is reselling the items she bought...and using the pictures.
So far, she hasn't used mine,yet... I do have my email address or our old now defunct website address on pictures. But I've had the same problem someone else mentioned, they cropped off the text, and used it.
I've only asked one seller so far to stop using my picture, and he did, after the auction was over. I can't sit all day looking up this stuff, and I don't want to.
Yeah, she gave me a list of suggestions on what I could do for my pictures! Yeah I agree thats pretty low... I didn't answer her, and don't intend to change anything.
posted on April 17, 2002 04:56:50 PM new
rules are rules,if they let one gets away,then the others will cry foul.
there are not many goldsellers ,many are bronze and silver.but ebay will adhere to its rule and lose your 63,000 business.
someone else will take your place and give it 63,000.
i dont know what you sell,but in the electronic business,everyone loves a laptop,if one is thrown out,the others will just get to sell more.
they all come from the same place-sony,cpq,hwp,ibm,dell,gateways etc
posted on April 17, 2002 05:34:56 PM new
The problem is that many of the rules often make no sense. I sell in a catgory that at any given time has 50 thousand plus listings. Restricting a seller to 10 items makes no sense. Now if I was listing in a category that had a thousand listings then it might make more sense. Instead they have choosen to apply this rule across the board.
I feel like I contribute to the community a great deal. Over half my buyers are first time users. I spend so much time walking newbies through "how to use eBay 101" that I should be on customer services payroll.
If they had a problem with the link then they should have decided that last week, this rehash of the same thing under a different violation is just crap. It means I have to edit 750 plus inventory templates.
Customer service is a joke. I use to get all worked up when some bizarre nut case left negative feedback 10 minutes after the auction ended. Now I just shrug it off because I know nothings going to get done.
eBay may have the monopoly of the moment but long term customer service is a concept they even they are going to have to learn. I bet that combined Powersellers represent 80% of the revenue. We also keep customers coming back to eBay for OUR product.
There was a time when I actively promoted eBay. I had people I met at trade shows signing up to sell, friends relatives, you name it. I would have customers call looking for an item and I would refer them to my auctions on eBay.
I am concerned about the way this is being handeled not only as a Powerseller, and stockholder but as a member of the eBay community at large. In typical eBay fashion they are still pondering it and I haven't received an official ruling as of yet. I am sure that they have it in legal trying to decide if it is defensible or not....
[ edited by dawndie on Apr 17, 2002 05:38 PM ]
posted on April 17, 2002 06:34:44 PM new
I've been dealing with the 10 identical auctions rule for a long time. There's a very good reason you aren't allowed to list more than 10 auctions at the same time: it creates unfair competition. While 15 or 20 auctions might not be a gross violation, eBay has to draw the line somewhere. That's what dutch auctions are for! As I say, I have battled eBay on this very subject before, but the argument that powersellers deserve some kind of special exemption from the rules just doesn't wash. I don't know if you recall but eBay's top rated seller had to toe the line re: links. You've got a competitor who's watching your auctions and complaining to eBay, so you have little choice but to comply.
posted on April 17, 2002 06:39:22 PM new
". First they steal my pictures and then they copy my auction description word for word to use in there own auctions."
About time you turned these lazy swines in to ebay.
As far as your auctions go , you need to run them under a dutch auction. Ebay has every right to cancel them per their rules.
Power seller means nothing as far as this goes.
"member of the eBay community at large."
No such thing, its every person for themselves. Ebay can be very fickle at times.
posted on April 17, 2002 07:35:29 PM new
Another obvious reason for the 10 identical auctions rule is that nobody - eBay, bidders, or other sellers - want the categories loaded down with a ton of crap.
Of course I'm not saying your particular auctions are crap. (As long as you're not selling the infamous bootleg "I'm Leaving eBay" CD.)
posted on April 17, 2002 07:44:40 PM new
I see those horrible "My wife is gonna kill me for selling this CD" EVERYWHERE on eBay searches beause they use every keyword in the universe to get included in a search. What if they were allowed 19 seperate items at once? These things make searching for stuff on eBay an unnecessary trial of patience. A seller sees the powerseller with 19 of the same auctions running and tells eBay "If he can do it why not me?" & "The rules don't apply to powersellers?". eBay has to enforce the rules fairly and evenly. There are in a position to tell you to leave and take your $63K with you. No more special treatment for the big boys, other than your special powerseller privledges and perks.
posted on April 18, 2002 08:07:58 AM new
Does anyone really know what is on those
'I'm Leaving eBay' CD's???? They are EVERYWHERE, does anyone really buy them, I've never even read the ad. But they sure clog up just about every catagory.
posted on April 18, 2002 09:41:30 AM new
Ebay should change the rule to "10 consecutive identical listings." Here's why, say I want one auction to end in the morning, one in afternoon, and one at night, seven days a week. Seems fair to me. That's 21 idenical listings. Is it much different if I list one in the morning, one in the afternoon and one in the night for 3 days a week?
Ebay should have looked at your listing pattern and decided if it was fair or not. It makes sense to limit 10 consecutive. Otherwise sellers could monopolize an entire page, which annoys buyers. But from what you've said, it seems pretty random how you relist these identical auctions, and it is foolish for ebay to lose out your good business if they were to close you down.
What they're saying is they don't want to have to police you. They've told me the same thing in regards to feedback. They just want a simple rule that everyone is obliged to, to make their job easier. But, I can't see what is difficult to take each reported case and review it seperatly. All it takes is one extra staff member.
posted on April 18, 2002 11:43:37 AM new
quickdraw said,
, I can't see what is difficult to take each reported case and review it seperatly. All it takes is one extra staff member.
/////////////////////////////
WHY BOTHER??
Then it becomes a debate,each case is reviewed,it can become too subjective.
are you paying for that extra staff member??potato chips included??
personally i think it is pretty boring to see the same items over and over again,from the same seller on the same day,give us a break!!!!
posted on April 18, 2002 11:59:23 AM new
"Then it becomes a debate,each case is reviewed,it can become too subjective. are you paying for that extra staff member??potato chips included?? personally i think it is pretty boring to see the same items over and over again,from the same seller on the same day,give us a break!!!!"
Poor service, and poor decisions results in lost revenue. Ebay had lost 30% of my business due to poor service, and poor decisions. So yes, I do pay for good service. Also, ebay threatened dawndie to close all their auctions for a minor infraction. Lost revenue for ebay of $63,000. An extra staff memeber to handle this pays for itself.
It's not difficlt to be subjective. Are all the listings on one page, or spread out? Are they spread out over days or just one day? Very elementary.
In response to my feedback inquiry where I (the seller) accidently left a buyer a negative who should have received a positive. Ebay wouldn't remove it saying they don't have the staff to review the situation, and can't remove it for whatever insane reason. They have the staff to review my dozen letters on the matter, but don't have the staff to easily see A) seller accidently left negative feedback, B)wants it removed. Does that take a subjective qualification?
Quit making excuses for ebay.
Of course I don't want to see a whole page of identical items from one seller, but sellers are allowed to dominate whole pages with different items! That isn't nice to page through either, but it's allowed.
posted on April 18, 2002 12:33:28 PM newOf course I don't want to see a whole page of identical items from one seller, but sellers are allowed to dominate whole pages with different items! That isn't nice to page through either, but it's allowed.
Good point.
I don't get the "unfair" argument anyway. It would make some sense if eBay listings were free. In that case you could say: Hey! This person is posting so many identical auctions that ours are lost in the morass.
But eBay listings are NOT free. dawndie is taking a business risk when she posts so many auctions. That's a LOT of money in listing fees. It must work for her, true, or she wouldn't do it, but the potential for losing money when sales are in the toilet is tremendous.
Being basically a free enterprise person, I say why shouldn't she be allowed to post as many as she wants, as long as she's paying for them?
posted on April 18, 2002 02:50:17 PM new
good point,as long as she is paying for it,why cant she list identical items until the cows come home??
unfortunately she does not own the venue,ebay does.
ebay has reasons to project an image of an interesting place where interesting and rare and one of a kind items can be found,of course we know this is not true,but ebay owns the site and sets the rules.
question-we all know ebay is a lot of work,and selling on ebay does not yield us a brand name or loyalty,63,000 dollars is a lot of money to spend on selling,what about aw fee??
would it be better to have your own website and promote your shop.
when we sell on ebay,our customers remember they bot our items on ebay,how many really miss us if we do not show up for a month??
nothing personal,just look at it from a good business point of view.
posted on April 18, 2002 10:34:14 PM new
stopwhining: I'm not arguing that eBay doesn't have the right to come up with whatever rules it pleases. If Meg decides we all must wear itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow polka dot bikinis while listing auctions, I expect the Fashion Police to come knocking at my door.
I'm just saying that I don't see the essential "unfairness" of posting many identical auctions. The marketplace is not fair, anyway. People who post the most appealing auctions will always do better than others.
posted on April 19, 2002 07:12:13 AM new
Hey, just post a link in the feedback (use the response option) you need removed, eBay will sure bust their butt to remove it then... have seen it happen.
Ebay is pretty anal about these things basically because they can... even the loss of $63,000 is not going to hurt them much, although I sure as hell would try to stir up as much bad publicity as possible if I was walking off with that kind of sales volume. I think they do have some kind of police who search for specific terms in listed auctions, like in the music section a promo copy of a 1970's LP "Item marked Not For Resale" and they go in and end those items. Funny how they ignore the exact same item if I relist it as "Promo item and carries associated terminology on label" -
Sometimes I wonder if the same ppl who run eBay run PayPal too - lol -
