ijusthaveit
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posted on July 5, 2002 12:51:13 PM new
You Payed Someone $100.00 for an Item you know is worth $1500.00 is this a Crime?
This should bring more passion then the feedback subject so fire away...and yes this appiles to a real life trainsaction.
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sn0bbish
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posted on July 5, 2002 12:53:26 PM new
if the person wants 100 for it then id say no. maybe a crime to you self consience but thats about it.
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slabholder
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posted on July 5, 2002 12:55:43 PM new
It's called profit!
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trai
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posted on July 5, 2002 12:57:57 PM new
 I would call this plain old good luck! Now go and do the happy dance.
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lindajean
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posted on July 5, 2002 01:11:05 PM new
If you did not actually take advantage of a person with low IQ or elderly person who might be senile but actually does need the money, then I would just chalk it up to good luck and be happy!
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JACKSWEBB
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posted on July 5, 2002 01:44:18 PM new
OTHERWISE THERE WOULD BE NO E BAY.
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kiara
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posted on July 5, 2002 02:07:42 PM new
Is there a chance the person will find out? Do you expect to see them again?
I ask this because many of the people I deal with recommend me to their friends, neighbors and family so I can also buy from them. If I did this to one of those people and they found out word may travel and it would cost me in future deals.
I guess it depends on the situation.
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Dejapooh
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posted on July 5, 2002 02:08:28 PM new
Is it a CRIME? No. Is there something wrong? Maybe. It depends. If you ask, "How much do you want?" and they say "$100" nothing wrong in my book. If they ask you what it is worth, and you say $100, then there is something wrong. I am often in a position where I am seen as an expert. If someone asks me what something is worth, I tell them what I know. If they ask me what I would pay, I tell them what I would pay, and then I pay it. The question is have you mislead or been dishonest? If so, I think you are in the wrong... however, I doubt that any of the above things is Illegal.
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sanmar
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posted on July 5, 2002 02:45:14 PM new
No 1, Did you do anything that would be unethical or illegal? Did you take advantage of someone who was mentally incapacitated? If you did not, then I say it was legal. An example, I went to an estate sale put on by a professional. There was a set of Royal Crown Derby china. The price was $850.00. I snapped it up & sold it for $4500.00. I knew more about china than the man putting on the sale, but that wasn't illegal, just dumb luck.
[ edited by sanmar on Jul 5, 2002 02:47 PM ]
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stusi
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posted on July 5, 2002 03:28:55 PM new
Was this an auction? If so, the item went to the highest bidder- what's the problem? With your conscience you should never go to a garage sale!
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feistyone
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posted on July 5, 2002 06:53:48 PM new
There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. It's called buy low and sell high. If someone were to ask me what something was worth I would say "It's worth as much as XXXX but I can only offer XXX". A lot of the time a person will go ahead and take the offer because they just want to unload it and need the money.
Finer Fashions on Ebay, top designers, latest styles.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/feistyone/
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stopwhining
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posted on July 5, 2002 08:01:39 PM new
have you received the item yet??
save the happy dance until you get it
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mrspock
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posted on July 5, 2002 08:10:54 PM new
didnt they just get a couple of the appraisers on antiques roadshow for this ?
If they set the price nothing wrong If you made the offer and they accepted probably not illigeal but unethical in my opion.
I used to run a ad to buy and I always made fair offers based on what I felt they item would bring . I beleive it to be unethical to offer someone 100 on a 1500 item .
If they called you as a proffesinal and you made that type of offer based on a appraisal then I feel it would be illegal
spock here......
Live long and Prosper
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[ edited by mrspock on Jul 5, 2002 08:13 PM ]
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ijusthaveit
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posted on July 5, 2002 08:17:33 PM new
It's Just an Ethics Question,I layed some cash out for a collection worth $10,000.I paid 1,800.00 for it.Well this person who is(WAS) a friend took it upon himself to steal some items from me worth mabe $800.00 because he now felt cheathed.Hey He signed the back of my check after 24 hours of thinking about it.So I just wanted to get a feel for what other think.And Yes I know he did comit a crime.
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mrspock
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posted on July 5, 2002 08:56:39 PM new
layed some cash out for a collection worth $10,000.I paid 1,800.00 for
you and I sure have a differnt defination of the word friend
because he now felt cheathed
you dont think you cheated him ?
spock here......
Live long and Prosper
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holdenrex
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posted on July 5, 2002 09:06:49 PM new
There was a case a couple years ago involving a Civil War dealer who purchased a Civil War collection for $800 that he later went on to sell for a total of about $80,000. The original owner found out about this and took the guy to court. The judge found in favor of the original owner, that he was owed a percentage of the $80,000. I don't believe it was one of those appraiser ethical conflicts that mrspock mentions above, but the judgment was based upon the fact that the dealer did have a good idea of what the collection was worth and knowingly paid a tiny fraction of its value. At least these are my recollections, anybody else hear about this? It was covered in Antique Week, I may have recalled some of the specifics incorrectly, but that's what I remember. I don't know if it was appealed or overturned, but it did shake up the antique dealer community for awhile for the chilling precedent that it set.
I don't think that what you did is illegal (one judge's ruling does not constitute a law in and of itself), and I don't think that paying 18% of full face value is improper. And the fact that the other party withdrew $800 worth after the fact muddies the water even further. I wouldn't worry about it, though I'm sorry that he's now an ex-friend
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Libra63
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posted on July 5, 2002 09:14:23 PM new
How did you come to only pay $1,800.00 for $10,000.00 worth of merchandise? That is the question, because if the person selling the objects only asked for $1,800.00 I don't think you cheated him but if you offered only that amount I think you did. Then another crime was committed when he took the $800.00 dollars worth of merchandise back. I guess he is not a friend anymore.
Opps!!!!!! Changed 18,000.00 to 1,800.00. To much money for me to figure out.
[ edited by Libra63 on Jul 5, 2002 09:17 PM ]
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kiara
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posted on July 5, 2002 09:25:25 PM new
holdenrex, I think that those were the two appraisers from the Antiques Roadshow? I remember watching that episode.
http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/articles/aopa0501.htm
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ijusthaveit
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posted on July 5, 2002 09:33:22 PM new
Lets not get wires crossed,1,800.00 is Quite alot Scratch,to lay out for some one.I have made back my money in the collection,but have stopped selling the rest of the investment.the other $800.00 in Items was not related to the collection.You Come to my house for an event party and then take Items not approved for your taking is theft.
Facts:
He signed the Check
He waited 24hrs.To Look into value of the items before agreeing to sell.
I just don't understand why one would steal after accepting the deal.
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holdenrex
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posted on July 5, 2002 09:40:33 PM new
kiara, no this was a different case that happened before the Antiques Roadshow incident - it involved an entire Civil War collection, not just a couple of items.
I do recall the AR "watermelon sword" when it was first broadcast. It's amusing now to think that it was entirely staged - the "John Doe" who brought in the sword deserves an Emmy because he managed to capture the same stupified look that every other person gets on that show when they're told they can pay for an entire college tuition thanks to one family heirloom
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ijusthaveit
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posted on July 5, 2002 09:42:05 PM new
Also 1800.00 is more then fair for a 10,000.00 collection.Why?
1.Storage
2.Fees
3.Not all items will sell
4.Not all items will sell for book value
5.Time spent Grading,Reserching and closing a deal
Remember not every thing will bring what it is said worth,I base all these factures before coming up with a price so 1800.00 is Very Fair
800.00 for 80,000.00 Now that's a Heist! fair value for that in my book would have been $25,000 to 30,000.
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holdenrex
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posted on July 5, 2002 10:11:19 PM new
ijusthaveit - when I purchase something to resell through a private contact, I generally offer one-quarter to one-third of the value depending on how fast I think I can turn the stuff over. That's higher than what I would pay for the same stuff at a yard sale and generally more than they could sell it at a yard sale, so it tends to work well for both parties. I may also pay above 50% if it's a high dollar item I know I can turn over quickly at a higher price. Since this was a friend, I probably would have offered more than 18%, but again, that's your perogative - you know the value of what you're dealing with, and the $800 loss gets you close to the 25% anyway, especially if your ex-friend was wiley enough to withhold the choice pieces.
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kiara
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posted on July 5, 2002 10:26:19 PM new
holdenrex, I'm not familiar with the other case you mentioned. The Antiques Roadshow is all staged just for the ratings but it makes people think that all their junk is worth a fortune.
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timetravelers
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posted on July 5, 2002 10:47:08 PM new
Years back there was an elderly lady called a dealer to come over & look at items..she didn't want them but saw a plant on the table sitting on a dish..said she wanted that..the lady said she didn't think it was worth much but not sure,the professional antique dealer gave her 1.00
turns out it was a rare plate worth 10,000 old lady sued..antique dealer lost as she came to the home in her official capacity as an antique dealer & knew the old lady was clueless
so if you are an ebay seller say with 200 feedback would you be considered a pro? good question..by the way My Mom used to say sometimes 100 is like a million..depends on how much you need it.some people sell stuff cheap to get badly needed money knowing because they need the money fast & could not sell it themselves quickly they are taking a big hit.
if you feel you took the friend,tell him to return the items(this was childish but he must have been upset), & you will give him a % of what you actually get for it.which could be a lot less than he thinks..
Our biz sure is getting complicated especially dealing with friends or family good luck! a friend is worth a lot, see if you can work it out just like you would with any customer or associate good biz & everyone will feel better
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rarriffle
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posted on July 6, 2002 12:07:56 PM new
I have a friend that wanted to sell me a couple of items that I knew would do fairly well on ebay. His price was about half the value and he offered them to me for half of that.
Instead of buying the items, I offered to sell them on ebay and split the net profit 50/50. He got twice what he was asking and I made a tidy profit too. Everybody was happy.
This is the only way I deal with a friend that I wish to keep as a friend.
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holdenrex
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posted on July 6, 2002 12:21:16 PM new
The Antiques Roadshow is all staged just for the ratings but it makes people think that all their junk is worth a fortune.
There is an element of being "staged" (it is essentially PBS's version of "Who Wants to be a Millionaire" ) but I think most of it is genuine. While there have been some planted items, I believe most of the items brought in to AR are genuine and many would likely bring the estimated prices, if sold in a high-end auction house with the right crowd. Antique Week newspaper covers those sorts of auctions, and you'd be amazed what that sort of "junk" actually brings in.
[ edited by holdenrex on Jul 6, 2002 12:22 PM ]
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rarriffle
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posted on July 6, 2002 02:17:25 PM new
holdenrex, Yes, I watch for my Antique Week issue every Saturday.
I remember the story you told about, with the auctioneer/dealer ripping the old woman off on the $80,000 item.
There is a story in todays issue about an estate sale in Cols Ohio where a cedar chest was the object of a bidding war between 2 friends of the deceased. They both thought that particular chest should be his/hers even though there was another chest in the sale that was almost identical to the first. It ended up selling for $23,000. the auctioneer was blown away. the second chest went for a modest amount, $250, and not to the underbidder on the first chest.
Only at the auction!!
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gravid
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posted on July 7, 2002 06:55:55 PM new
Some people are communists at heart even if they would be shocked to be told that and feel real shame to make a profit. They can get through life happy by never achieving much.
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pelorus
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posted on July 8, 2002 05:37:07 AM new
Holy moly, it's no crime to get a good deal. The reverse eventually happens to all of us anyway (we sell something for far less than it's worth).
BTW, I was interviewed on Antiques Roadshow by the Civil War guy that got thrown off the show. He was a real jerk. He pumped me for all the information I had about my item, then when the camera started rolling he started giving it all back to me like he knew it all to begin with.
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classicrock000
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posted on July 9, 2002 04:12:48 AM new
The only crime I see here is...there arent more deals like that
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