posted on September 11, 2002 01:38:51 PM new
This has nothing to do with Ebay. But it needs to be said....
Thursday, the 12th of September, the president is scheduled to address the United Nations and
attempt to get permission to invade Iraq and topple Saddam Hussein.
Since most of the world is siding with Saddam Hussein, he is unlikely to get
it. In addition to the United States and Great Britain, Russia, China and
France all have veto power at the Security Council. Britain's Tony Blair
continues to be rock-solid in his support for US action against Iraq,
even though most of his countrymen oppose it.
But the other three Permanent Members are not -- all three have promised
to veto any resolution authorizing an invasion of Saddam Hussein's Iraq.
Not that a veto is likely to be necessary. Bush is unlikely to get
enough votes to require one. One reader from Australia told me to 'check my
facts' regarding those nations who have given their support to a US
attack on Iraq. I checked.
Australian Prime Minister John Howard said he is 'satisfied' that Saddam
has weapons of mass destruction. He also said he was 'satisfied' that
Saddam must be removed because he is a threat to the world. There is
little doubt that Australia will vote with the United States at the UN,
should it come to that.
Gotta hand it to them. The Australians don't owe us anything.
What about the rest of our 'allies'? The French, for example. What do
they owe America? Well, for one thing, they aren't speaking German.
When they needed America's support, they got it. Twice. Two generations
of Americans lie buried under little white crosses all over France, from
Flanders to Normandy.
There was a scene in the movie, "Saving Private Ryan" in which a dying
Captain Miller reaches out, draws Private Ryan close, and gasps, with
his last breath, "Earn this." The Europeans have before them an opportunity
to do just that. Only the British remember that there is anything to
earn.
Huge memorials rise out of the French countryside bearing slogans like
"Lest We Forget".
They forgot.
Germany started two world wars in the last century, claiming almost one
hundred million lives overall. Not to mention the tens of thousands of
young American lives that were lost fighting German aggression.
But when it was over, we rebuilt Germany. When the Russians tried to
starve West Berlin into submission, America launched the greatest
airlift of supplies in history.
It was an American president who declared solidarity with the Germans in
1962 when John Kennedy told them in German, "Ich bin ein Berliner".
(Which means either "I am one with the people of Berlin" or 'I am a jelly
doughnut'. The Germans had no problem figuring out Kennedy's intended
meaning.)
Only seventeen years earlier, that same Berlin was our mortal enemy,
dedicated to our destruction.
But when Germany needed us, America forgot all about that.
It was another American president who proclaimed, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear
down this wall." The Wall came down.
Germany evidently forgot.
America forgot forty years of Cold War with Russia and extended the
hand of friendship to Boris Yeltsin on that Christmas Day in 1991-- mere
hours after Yeltsin told the world, "The Soviet Union, as a geopolitical
reality, has ceased to exist."
There is not a nation in Europe who doesn't owe its freedom to America.
Twice, we redeemed European freedom with American blood.
During the 1980's, America redeemed Eastern Europe from Soviet bondage
with billions of American dollars, escalating the arms race until the
Soviets spent themselves out of existence, leaving America $5.5 trillion
in debt.
The United Nations owes its existence to the United States. America
refused to join the League of Nations following World War I. The League
of Nations does not exist.
If America were to pull out of the United Nations, the UN would cease to
exist as surely as did its predecessor. And we'd have a whopping big
office building in New York City, since it was paid for with American
money on land donated by Americans.
During the Persian Gulf War, Americans shed their blood to purchase
Kuwait's freedom from Iraqi occupation and to preserve Saudi Arabia from
sharing Kuwait's fate.
Assessment:
On September 11, 2001 America was attacked. For the first time since the
War of 1812, American blood was shed on the American continent by a
foreign enemy. Wounded, hurting, bloodied and alone, we turned to our
friends and allies.
They told us it was our own fault.
A U.S. Council of Foreign Relations study found recently that, "stereotypes
of the United States as arrogant, self-indulgent, hypocritical, inattentive
and unwilling or unable to engage in cross-cultural dialogue are pervasive
and deeply rooted."
Tomorrow, President Bush will ask the United Nations for permission to
attack an enemy who, given the chance, would visit September 11th on us
again.
Russia is opposed. China is opposed. France is opposed. The European
Union is opposed. The current president of the Security Council is Syria.
After all, Saddam is only a brutal dictator who kills for pleasure, whereas
America is "arrogant, self-indulgent and hypocritical."
Help me out here. When did America surrender its right of self-defense
to the United Nations?
posted on September 11, 2002 02:02:03 PM new
There is no proof that Saddam has nuclear capabilty. Even if he did, there is no way he can deliver them unless the camels have learned how to swim. Finally, if WOMD do exist in Iraq, why not target them instead of the man? There's a gazillion other nutszos over there who can, and will step in and be boss if Saddam mysteriously disappears.
The real scariest person alive today happens to be the POTUS.
PS ...
1. The Americans didn't really save the Kuwaitis ... they protected their oil interests.
2. Why is anyone concerned about self-defence from a country like Iraq anyway???
[ edited by RB on Sep 11, 2002 02:05 PM ]
I respect your opinions & will defend your right to say so...........
Even if it is WRONG.
The scariest person in the world isn't Mr. Bush. If I were president then POTUS would be the scariest person in the world.
I am a PROUD AMERICAN, who believes we should take care of AMERICANS FIRST.
What other nation in the WORLD provides as much foreign aid to other countries, to the detriment of out own countrymen. Look at the plight of the true native americans, starving on reservations.
The US and SEVERAL OTHER NATIONS, including Canadia, Britian and Austraila, Germany & France, did save the Kuwaitis and in the process save EVERYONES oil interests. Even the Japanese & Koreans participated. When was the last time you saw them in a active military operation? Can you say WWII (for the Japanese) and Vietman (for the Koreans).
What would you be paying for a gallon of gas if Sadaam was still in Kuwait. How many more of his own counrtymen would he have killed for his own selfish pleasure if the US had not taken up the cause.
I'm not a war monger...I belive to my sole that American has been taken advantage of for too long.
posted on September 11, 2002 03:17:11 PM new
When/if Sadaam pulls off his own "9/11" style attack on the U.S., everyone will be screaming "Why didnt the President DO SOMETHING to prevent it?!?!". That's exactly what he's trying to do.
posted on September 11, 2002 03:58:53 PM new
It's all about OIL.
If it is not all about OIL, then we should go after North Korea first. They already have the nukes and the missiles to deliver them. After all, Sadam has been using and stockpiling chemical weapons for 20+ years. what is the sudden rush all about? He certainly is not clearly connected to the 911 tragedy.
Toppling Sadam will be dangerous. Like playing with matches in a shed full of gasoline. Don't get me wrong, I think the guy is a menace and should be dealt with. My fear is that if Bush goes in without the majority of world opinion behind him, that will just create many more generations of fanatics whose goal in life is to harm the US.
posted on September 11, 2002 04:11:54 PM new
Explain it to me....How did North Korea support and aid Osama & his band of terrorists. Have they ever commited an act of agression against anyone other the South Korea?
Did they support the bombing of the Pan Am flight over Lockerbe Scotland, Did they support the bombing of American military personnel in night clubs all over Europe.
People you need to wake up to the reality that the funding for most all terrorist acts are funded by Saadam
posted on September 11, 2002 04:15:51 PM newWhen/if Sadaam pulls off his own "9/11" style attack on the U.S., everyone will be screaming "Why didnt the President DO SOMETHING to prevent it?!?!". That's exactly what he's trying to do.
So, there is a link to eBay in this thread after all - the good old 'guilty until proven innocent' thing.
Why not kill Saddam and all his Iraqi buddies now just in case they might attack the USA someday ... is that what you are suggesting? That is a scary thought.
I feel just as bad about 9-11 as you do, but I don't believe that provides a valid excuse to attack every country who may be able to attack us someday. Seems to me that cowardly act had something to do with an idiot name bin Laden ... not Saddam.
I do not believe Iraq or Korea or any of those other countries that are on Bush's hit list present any threat to the good old USA, anymore that I believe VietNam did.
As for the oil? C'mon ... everyone knows that was the real reason for Desert Storm.
posted on September 11, 2002 04:36:04 PM newI do not believe Iraq or Korea or any of those other countries that are on Bush's hit list present any threat to the good old USA, anymore that I believe VietNam did.
I did not believe Afghanistan was a threat to the good old USA until 9/11/2001.
posted on September 11, 2002 04:57:56 PM new
Any regime that supports terrorism as does Saadam's should be held accountable to acts equal the the events they support.
When was the last time you read much of anything about Iran? Have you heard of plans to invade them? No, why, because although they are still a stong Arabian nation they have learned it is not wise to support terrorism.
As for Vietman, I agree it was a mistake. Did the US for no reason invade the country, no. JFK (for those of you who don't know who JFK was, John Fitzgerald Kennedy) was requested by the South Vietnamese president to provide
military support & training to the governemnt forces, so they could prevent N Vietman agression. From there things escalated out of control through the leadership of LBJ (Lyndon Banes Johnson). If the politicians had left the war to the military, the fight could have been won.
posted on September 11, 2002 05:49:34 PM new AMEN TO THAT bear1949 What happened to the hunt for Osama, Did Bush get side tracked and decide to finish his daddys job.
posted on September 11, 2002 06:24:41 PM new
15 of the 19 911 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is a cauldron of Islamic fundamentalism and hatred toward the US. King Fahd and his cronies are supported by the US for one reason--OIL. Lately, the Saudi citizens are getting restless and the militant faction is becoming a danger to the King and his family. In fact, the US has moved the majority of it's forces out of Saudi Arabia and repositioned them in more friendly countries.
I say that Saudi Arabia is more of a hotbed for terrorism than Iraq ever will be. Why aren't we going after them?
It's all about OIL. Energy is a national security interest for the US due to the fact that we import 55% plus of our OIL needs. The American economic machine needs to be fed and OIL is it's meal of choice.
posted on September 11, 2002 06:25:29 PM new
RB said "Why not kill Saddam and all his Iraqi buddies now just in case they might attack the USA someday ... is that what you are suggesting? That is a scary thought."
You could have easily made the same statement about bin Laden BEFORE 9/11, and it would have made about as much sense then as it does now.
3,000 innocent people would be alive today if someone had had that "scary thought" about bin Laden soon enough before 9/11 and acted upon it.
posted on September 11, 2002 06:34:18 PM new
Hi Bubblewrap.
I am much more concerned about Russia and all those Nukes it has pointed at us. I have dealt with that fear on an ongoing basis since I was a child. Russia by far has the greatest amount of WMD's pointed at us of any country in the world. We better go after them also.
posted on September 11, 2002 07:29:09 PM new
bear1949
Thanks for the thoughts on this. I agree 100% and would rather be proactive than reactive as we have been being for years.
I hope you don't mind but I have copied your post and emailed it to several people.
The thing I love most about the US is our freedom, and that included Freedom of speech and for that I am thankful for RB's posts. I don't agree but I am thankful that he can post and make us think about our feelings on this very important issue.
posted on September 11, 2002 07:43:34 PM new
My thoughts on this is why can we not just remember the people that lost their lives on this day and leave the debate about oil or whatever out of it for another time.
United we stand, divided we fall, this means the world at large!
posted on September 11, 2002 07:55:59 PM new
I don't know for sure, but I would be willing to place a wager that it will never be pubically anounced that Osama was captured or killed. I believe there are several teams (read SEAL) in country searching for him. If he is sighted, John Browning's favorite round will send him to Allah.
The same could have (should have) happened to Saadam in 1991 when Iraq was crawling with Seals, Recon, Rangers & SAS (the Brits). You never hear of actions by these guys (and probably never will).
I'M A PROUD RED BLOODED AMERICAN MALE WHO ISN'T AFRAID TO SPEAK HIS MIND. AN AMERICAN WHO APPRECIATES THE BLOOD SHED BY OUR FORFATHERS WHO WEREN'T AFRAID TO DIE FOR THEIR CAUSE. MY FATHER WAS A WWI VET, MY STEP FATHER A WWII VET, AN UNCLE A KOREAN VET, I DID MY TIME IN HE##, AND MY SON IN DESSERT STORM. I HATE TO SEE OR HEAR OF GOOD PEOPLE DYING FOR AN UNJUST CAUSE. IT IS ALL AMERICANS DUTY TO STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT. AND ANY FORM OF TERRORISM IS WRONG. IF I THOUGHT I COULD HELP, I WOULD REUP (REENLIST FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW THE LANGUAGE),IN AN INSTANT.
SO I HAVE TO WAIT IN THE AIRPORT A LITTLE LONGER OR TRAFFIC IS A LITTLE HEAVIER, IS THAT SO GREAT A PRICE TO PAY TO PREVENT TO KEEP US SAFIER, NO.
posted on September 11, 2002 08:01:29 PM new
I don't know for sure, but I would be willing to place a wager that it will never be pubically anounced that Osama was captured or killed. I believe there are several teams (read SEAL) in country searching for him. If he is sighted, John Browning's favorite round will send him to Allah.
The same could have (should have) happened to Saadam in 1991 when Iraq was crawling with Seals, Recon, Rangers & SAS (the Brits). You never hear of actions by these guys (and probably never will).
I'M A PROUD RED BLOODED AMERICAN MALE WHO ISN'T AFRAID TO SPEAK HIS MIND. AN AMERICAN WHO APPRECIATES THE BLOOD SHED BY OUR FORFATHERS WHO WEREN'T AFRAID TO DIE FOR THEIR CAUSE. MY FATHER WAS A WWI VET, MY STEP FATHER A WWII VET, AN UNCLE A KOREAN VET, I DID MY TIME IN HE##, AND MY SON IN DESSERT STORM. I HATE TO SEE OR HEAR OF GOOD PEOPLE DYING FOR AN UNJUST CAUSE. IT IS ALL AMERICANS DUTY TO STAND UP FOR WHAT IS RIGHT. AND ANY FORM OF TERRORISM IS WRONG. IF I THOUGHT I COULD HELP, I WOULD REUP (REENLIST FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW THE LANGUAGE),IN AN INSTANT.
SO I HAVE TO WAIT IN THE AIRPORT A LITTLE LONGER OR TRAFFIC IS A LITTLE HEAVIER, IS THAT SO GREAT A PRICE TO PAY TO PREVENT TO KEEP US SAFIER, NO.
posted on September 12, 2002 02:03:23 PM new
In 1982, Israel was condemned (even by the US) for taking out a nuclear reactor in Iraq. Imagine if they did not do that what the result would have been. Sadam Hussein is evil, he already has shown us how evil he is, and I hope the US decides to tell the UN where to go, and proceed on its own (well, with the UK of course, who really is our only dependable ally, even the Canadians can't be counted on) - I'd rather deal with condemnation of the world than a nuclear weapon launched and killing innocent people.
posted on September 12, 2002 02:18:48 PM new
bear1949 said: "I would be willing to place a wager that it will never be publicly anounced that Osama was captured or killed"
Agreed. It took what, 40 years before anyone would come out and admit for a fact that Hitler was dead?
I personally think Hitler and Osama are probably in the same place right now.
Dump the UN Now! See how long they last without us. It was a great concept when it was formed, but now it's just politics as usual- inneffective and corrupt.
posted on September 12, 2002 07:10:59 PM new
I have never before gotten involved in this type of discussion on any boards but I now choose to speak my peace.
We were distracted too long with Bill and Monica. Sadam and Osama knew we were more concerened with this domestic scandal than what was happening in the Middle East and they took advantage to use that time to prepare even more for terrorism and horror.
We got way too complasant and caught up in Peyton Place instead of being vigilant. We reduced our military and intelligence capabilities and now we pay the price.
Are the people who are saying we should mind our own business the same people who had nothing to say about our 70+ day bombing in Serbia?
Are they the same people who said nothing when Clinton ordered this bombing without first going to Congress and getting their approval?
Where were they then? Now these formerly silent folks are speaking out against fighting for and protecting our freedoms and liberties. We saw the terror and horror and the murder of 3000+ with our own eyes,in our own backyards. Do you want to wait and see how back it can be the next time. Do you have a clue what mustard gas can do? Or are you the same people who think the moon walk was a hoax?
It sounds like some of these people are saying, "Well, Sadam gassed my next door neighbor but he is OK because he didn't gas me."
President Bush gave an impelling and factual speech today. He wasn't asking for permission, he was seeking support and asking the gutless UN to enforce their own agreements. I am confident that more and more countries will be supporting us soon. And that includes the French who rarely, if ever, supports us. Afterall, all we did was liberate them!! Russia and China are already showing signs of support.
We cannot ever, ever forget 9/11. We are forever changed...My 4-year old grandson and I visited a fire house and he got to sit in a big red firetruck - the dream of any 4-year old boy. I asked him if he wanted to be a fireman when he grew up and he said, "No, Nana, its too dangerous but those guys are cool." The fireman asked him why they were cool and my grandson said, "I saw that airplane hit the building. You guys are cool." Need I tell you that the fireman's and my eyes filled with tears. My grandson had never before talked about 9/11 but he knew!! This is how we have changed and I hate it! I hate that my grandchildren will never know the security I had.
"When I am gone and my children and grandchildren take over my prayers--I hope they will grow to believe in their country as I."
posted on September 13, 2002 02:32:06 PM new
The United States has been one of the biggest supporters of terrorism in the world for many years. We make the planes, the bombs, the mines, and the guns used for terrorism all over the world. Ask the Palistinians who are blown up daily. Ask the British who have been attacked by the IRA for years. Much of the IRA money came from fundraisers in New York City.
As for Mr. Bush he was not even elected. He was appointed by a Supreme Court which had no business in a Florida election. He doesn't even deserve to be called POTUS.
When this whole thing (The War on Terrorism) started Bush said if we didn't get Osama Bin Laden the incursion or war in Afghaistan would be a failure. Well, he didn't get him and by his own words it has been a failure. The only part of Afghanistan that is under control is Kabul. So now he puts the pea under another shell and says we should attack Iraq. Let's get Americans minds off The War on Terror and on to the war against Iraq, but we'll let them think its about terror. It is about oil and revenging Bush the Elected who when he had the chance to go to Baghdad didn't.
posted on September 13, 2002 02:59:11 PM new
I'm a proud American. Let's keep America free!
If we let Bush invade Iraq it would be unconstitutional. It would be against international law. It would violate the Christian doctrine "just war." It would ruin our economy even more. But most importantly, thousands of men, women and children, who want to live would die.
posted on September 13, 2002 03:34:09 PM new
syl36:
More than likely those thousands,you are trying to protect, will die anyway at the hands of the person you don't want us to attack!
Remember: He uses his weapons on them first to see how they will work against us!
Their Great Leader!
The best thing is rid people of him!
Then there will be no more innocent people dieing!!
We Are Not Killing Innocent people,Never Have,Never Will!!!
As long as he is in power and gets his people to follow him, None of them are innocent!
It doesn't matter if they do it under orders,or willingly they are GUILTY!
Or will it Just take the death of one your family
members to realise this??
posted on September 13, 2002 07:19:28 PM new
It is usually the innocent who die. Do you really believe we would get only Saddam and his cronies? I don't want my family to die and I don't want other families to die.
posted on September 13, 2002 07:48:01 PM new
WHEN IRAQ is attacked it will be to ENFORCE the UN Sanctions SAADAM agreed to. Sanctions to stop further development of weapons of mass destruction. Wherher the US goes it alone or with aid from Britan & Australia is irrevelent.
SAADAM agreed to allow UN inspectors free access to all of IRAQ.
Basically SAADAM has been thumbing his nose at the UN and the WORLD, daring them to try to enforce an AGREEMENT he vowed to abide by.
AMEN TO THAT bear1949 What happened to the hunt for Osama, Did Bush get side tracked and decide to finish his daddys job. 
