JinkiesVelma
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posted on September 14, 2002 08:31:24 PM new
Is this legal?
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sn0bbish
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posted on September 14, 2002 08:43:12 PM new
no it is not legal. it is against visa and mastercards terms of use.
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Libra63
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posted on September 14, 2002 11:25:11 PM new
Is this still going on. You would have thought by now everyone knew that it isn't legal. eBay will end their auction if it is in their TOS, well that is if someone reports them. Not me I just won't bid.
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stopwhining
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posted on September 15, 2002 06:37:30 AM new
it is not illegal to offer discount to those who pay cash.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2002 09:29:01 AM new
Ask eBay investigations about this and see if they think it is illegal.
It comes under Qestionable content on eBay->Listing issues-> Payment Surcharges- Additional Fees based on form of payment
I know as a bidder, I ask them every time I see a seller doing this and you know... those auctions have been shut down. 
Ain't Life Grand...
[ edited by twelvepole on Sep 15, 2002 09:37 AM ]
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 15, 2002 02:29:19 PM new
Of course it is legal, just depends how they go about doing it. The smartest way is to add another 3% handling; the dumbest (and illegal) way is saying "add 3% for credit card fees."
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2002 02:33:12 PM new
LOL, everthing is "legal" if you don't get caught.
Ain't Life Grand...
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 15, 2002 02:36:04 PM new
An illegal act is illegal whether you get caught or not.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2002 02:36:25 PM new
Of course it is legal, just depends how they go about doing it.
Then this statement is incorrect then.
Ain't Life Grand...
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 15, 2002 02:42:36 PM new
No it's not because there are loopholes. A seller can offer discounts to cash paying customers; they can add the fee to the start bid or to handling. All perfectly legal.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2002 03:27:41 PM new
So by using a loophole ( which I don't see based on eBay's wording) an illegal act now becomes legal?
I need more info on this, because, according to the topic of this thread, the seller was adding 3% processing fee to a bidder if they used a credit card and that is illegal on eBay.
Ain't Life Grand...
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sanmar
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posted on September 15, 2002 03:35:28 PM new
It is illegal as far as the creditcard cos. are concerned. It is also illegal in 9 states, CA is one of them. There is a question as to whether it is illgal to do this throughj PayPal. P/P is not a credit card co., it is aclearing house & you are paid by P/P, not directly by the c/c.
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 15, 2002 04:11:24 PM new
You haven't checked ebay's rules then because they do allow sellers to add any fee they want to the start bid. Also, ebay does not make laws so I don't see how you consider an ebay rule "unlawful."
If a seller adds adds it handling, ebay would find it impossible to enforce because they can't determine if it is a credit card fee.
The wording of the first post was not clear how the seller was adding the fee. It is not a direct quote unless the poster made an error.
Credit Card companies can't enforce a law upon anyone that the seller's state allows to legally add a fee. They can enforce their own rules, however. Paypal can make up any reasonable rule they want and enforce it, that's perfectly legal, however, they still have less power than ebay to close a few loopholes.
Any way you cut it, a seller can add the fees legally and around any rules by ebay or paypal and not be in violation.
It has to be one of the dumbest rules on the law book. Why credit card customers feel they are honorable by forcing cash customers to cover part of their fee is beyond me. Sounds like those few customers are the crooks.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2002 05:16:35 PM new
Ahh I see semantics is what is in play now, eBay just has "rules" and not laws, therefore it is not "illegal".
But at least they will shut down an auction for breaking their "rules".
I can see adding the 3% to your "handling charge" but you would not be able to list the S&H in your auction or then you would be back to adding fees for credit card usage.
As far as stating that credit card users are the "crooks", I have to disagree with that, especially when we have a society going for more and more electronic funds...
The crook, is the seller that is too cheap to offer a service for the convience of his potential customers.
If a seller feels the need to have a "processing fee" for a credit card, just don't offer a credit card use.
Ain't Life Grand...
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kiara
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posted on September 15, 2002 05:28:17 PM new
A newbie seller and he may not know any better.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2100138653
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kiara
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posted on September 15, 2002 05:35:37 PM new
Here is another but he isn't a newbie. There are most likely many sellers doing this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2053565540
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 15, 2002 05:43:19 PM new
"The crook, is the seller that is too cheap to offer a service for the convience of his potential customers."
Clever way of thinking, that's how you trick politicians to makes such stupid laws.
Convenience is something buyers pay for. Many businesses are created around convenience. Is 7-11 cheap because they don't offer conveneince for lower prices? Are airlines cheap because they charge extra for direct flghts? No, convenience saves buyers time and money, it's something many buyers want to pay extra for.
Your logic is pathetic. A seller is a crook for charging for convenience? Come on, do your really believe in that B.S. or do you just spread that propaganda for political causes? In any case I don't believe you if you say that's what you believe in. I figure if you're an adult you must have exercised your thinking skills better than that.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2002 06:37:22 PM new
wow Quickdraw29 seems like a hit a nerve there... LOL I guess truth hurts...
I do believe that and if a seller can't afford to offer credit card service then they shouldn't be offering the service.
I gladly take credit cards and don't mind paying the fees for my buyers.
But then I don't have a pathetic profit margin that is destroyed by credit card fees.
Seems like some people shouldn't be selling.
Hiding the fees with a phony handling charge is one way to bilk money from bidders, but I just can't do that... too honest.
Ain't Life Grand...
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 15, 2002 08:55:13 PM new
It's lies that hurt, truth is refreshing. Unfortunately your propaganda is a lie and you're right, it hurts. It hurts the cash paying customers.
You don't mind paying the fees for the customers? That's great, I guess, for you. I try to attract buyers who are willing to pay more because that increases my profits for less work, and they tend to buy more than one item at once. The cheap customers you attract I find are not as profitable, take more of my time and don't buy as much. So good for you, I'll send the cheapee's your way, and they can enjoy taking advantage of a chump.
Sounds like someone shouldn't be selling. You never know, that may be you. Doesn't sound like you know very much about business, but I won't be the judge of that.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2002 09:19:34 PM new
LOL you are a funny person Quickdraw... Marc Wilson has nothing on you...
Hey send them my way... I will show them what real customer service is and not someone that trying to hide fees to jack up the prices.
LOL can't get a point across so you need to start name calling there Quickdraw?
I love it when people that don't have a clue have to start name calling... means they LOST.
Ain't Life Grand...
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robertsmithson
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posted on September 15, 2002 09:25:36 PM new
Yada yada ... except for one thing. Ebay apparently had shift of priorites about two months ago and now no longer actively persue any violators of any rules. That priority shift must have saved them millions of dollars and those dollars are all ebay really cares about.
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 15, 2002 09:33:22 PM new
Obviously I can't discuss a topic with someone who says LOL in every other sentence. Not a very bright individual.
Anyways, the final laugh is on those who whine the loudest about a surcharge because the loopholes exists and all their whining has accomplished nothing. Now that is funny.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2002 09:36:11 PM new
...and all their whining has accomplished nothing
Tell that to the sellers that had thier auctions cancelled because I reported them.
I have to laugh too...
Ain't Life Grand...
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 15, 2002 09:39:36 PM new
Those sellers deserve to have their auctions canceled for being boneheads. It's bad enough people whining about handling so why add another seperate fee for a source of complaints?
You didn't accomplish much, you just made the those sellers more wise, and they can find other ways to add the fees without any problems.
Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 15, 2002 09:48:55 PM new
Yes and if they do add them in other ways, then it is no longer a credit card processing fee per se.
I personally have no problems with "Handling" charges, as long as I can see them in the auction such as "S&H: $x.xx or something like that. Or however a seller wants to make up the cost of doing business.
Other than outright slapping me in the face with an additional "charge".
Ain't Life Grand...
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