posted on January 2, 2003 06:45:01 PM new
There's a seller that I've been following for awhile. The seller runs all their auctions "No Reserve". Let's the auctions proceed, and then after 7 or 10 days, with an hour left in the auction, cancels all the bids and ends the auctions where the price hasn't met their price, or hidden reserve. Typically ends 60-75% of the auctions. Most of the bidders in this category are wise to this joker's tricks so they avoid bidding. It's mainly newbies who bid. I've written to Ebay many times about this. I feel that it hurts Ebay when bidders(especially newbies) get into an auction, follow it for days, and then have it cancelled at the last minute. Ebay's "policy" is that sellers are allowed to cancel auctions, they have to have this right as the merchandise may accidentaly break, or some other legitimate reason may come up. But Ebay policy does not allow abuse of this policy. To me, this seller is clearly abusing the system. They are acting as if the rules do not apply to them. At the least, they are avoiding the reserve fee, which in this case is $2.00 a pop. But worse, as I see it, is that they are leaving a trail of newbie bidders who will never again participate in an Ebay auction, because something not quite right happened, and they're not sure what. I can't seem to make Ebay see the light on this one. Tried community, safe harbor, powerseller support. Any ideas on how to proceed?
posted on January 2, 2003 06:51:54 PM new
WRITE THOSE EXACT SAME E MAIL ADDRESSES AGAIN BUT DO IT LIKE I DO, THEN THEY LISTEN! JUST PASSED EXPERIENCE.. GOOD LUCK!
posted on January 2, 2003 07:42:28 PM new
If I read that CORRECTLY, keep emailing SH, Powersellers, community and keep reporting that seller. It will probably take many a email before they listen. Is there a record of how many that this seller has cancelled?
posted on January 2, 2003 07:54:22 PM new
I've written 5 times already, and called 3 other times. I'd estimate the seller runs 1000 auctions a year and cancels 600-750 of them at the last minute. They are high ticket items, averaging $1000 per item. I guess Ebay just can't resist those FVF's, no matter how much the seller thumbs their nose at the rules, and damages future Ebay business. I'm looking for perhaps a new tact or way to explain this situation to Ebay. It just seems so obvious to me. The seller is selling $1000 items with a $1 NR, so it costs the seller what, 10 cents, to take a shot and see if the bidding goes their way. If it does the seller makes a few hundred or thousand dollars. If not, the seller is out 10 cents. I could do the same thing, except I'm honest.
posted on January 2, 2003 08:04:23 PM new
I figured it out. Jack means to yell at them in all caps like him. Jack, out of psychological curiosity, did(or do) your parents eventually give in to your temper tantrums?
posted on January 2, 2003 08:08:39 PM new
HAHAHAHHA,,NOPE! AND IT STILL WORKS TODAY.....YELL AT E BAY!!!! THEN THEY WILL KNOW YOU REALLY,,,,,MEAN,,,,,BUSINESS!!!!
posted on January 3, 2003 05:47:05 AM new
Take the stick out of your bottom. You can't
police the world! What do you care if they
want to pay eBay listing fees and not get
anything out of it? There are a LOT of
problems with eBay, and this seems VERY minor! eBay is collecting fees of SOME kind
so I doubt they'll care. Anyone really upset
will simply not bid on this seller's items
again so they will pay the price in the end.
And no, I don't think it is proper to do
what they are doing, but I also don't think
it violates any eBay policy that I know of.
And again, there are a LOT of more important
things wrong with eBay that need fixing!
---
"Cannot say. Saying, I would know. Do not
know, so cannot say". -- Zathras (Babylon 5)
[ edited by zathras11 on Jan 3, 2003 05:50 AM ]
posted on January 3, 2003 06:19:31 AM newI feel that it hurts Ebay when bidders(especially newbies) get into an auction, follow it for days, and then have it cancelled at the last minute.
Your concern is touching, really. Brought a tear to my eye.
You don't get any response to your emails because this seller isn't violating any eBay policies. Sorry, a personal sense of outrage is not enough to get eBay off the dime.
I guess there's a whiny approach to this and then there's an entrepreneurial approach. The whiny method would be to complain to everyone you can to try to get this seller shut down. An entrepreneur, on the other hand, would see an opportunity and go head-to-head with this seller. If his business practices are so awful, it must be possible for someone else to do a better job.
[ edited by fluffythewondercat on Jan 3, 2003 06:20 AM ]
posted on January 3, 2003 07:20:39 AM new
Sometimes putting "FEE AVOIDANCE" in the subject line of your memo and sending it to the Power Seller Support helps.
posted on January 3, 2003 07:21:24 AM new
No one who wants to be successful(make it hugely successful as someone aspires to be)would continue doing this forever.
there is just better things to do .
if i run 1000 auctions starting $1 with no reserve and end up cancelling the bids before auction end,i would eventually lose interest doing it .
unless there are other reasons for doing so,like collecting email addr or teach all the cheap bidders a lesson.
posted on January 3, 2003 08:31:48 AM new
Love that Ignore feature!
You could try reporting it as Fee Avoidance, but I can tell you from experience that unless it is an explicit case that fits the criteria on the SafeHarbor investigations page, eBay will do nothing.
However, I never try to discourage people from tilting at windmills. Keeps the windmill busy and provides entertainment for the rest of us.
posted on January 3, 2003 12:26:59 PM new
what about the buyer? you people would be pretty pissed off if you were bidding on an expenisve
piece of eletronic equipement and the seller deceided to cancel at the last minute.What ebay should do is if some seller cancels at the last minute is charge him fees for what the high bid went for-that would put an end to that crap fast enough!This guy should be thrown off ebay.
posted on January 3, 2003 02:32:42 PM new
the palm spring jeweller who has a lot of opal and emerald worth 100,000 canceled his auction after reserve was met.
reserve is like 6950
posted on January 3, 2003 02:48:07 PM new
The realtors are doing almost the same thing and ebay is defenseless against them using their venue to gather hot leads.
It's like the bootleg CDs that dominate the site. It's ebay problem.
posted on January 3, 2003 02:51:33 PM new
dont cry for ebay,ebay motors and ebay real estate are good profit centers for ebay.
where would you find seller willing to pay 30 cents for 7 days rent for an item asking 1.95??
posted on January 3, 2003 03:53:45 PM new
As I said in my original post it is Ebay policy to allow a seller to cancel auctions. They need this ability in case an item breaks or some other unforeseen reason, or at present, for no reason at all. Sellers also have the right to choose their bidders, just as bidders have the right to choose sellers. It is against Ebay policy to ABUSE this policy, which is my contention. This seller is abusing the policy. The seller routinely ends auctions with the note, "item no longer available for sale", and then relists the same item 24 hours later.
.
.To those who think this is no big deal.....think what Ebay would be like if ALL sellers acted in the same way. How long do you think Ebay would last and attract bidders if 60-75% of all auctions were cancelled at the last minute.
posted on January 3, 2003 04:22:01 PM new
I guess there's a whiny approach to this and then there's an entrepreneurial approach. The whiny method would be to complain to everyone you can to try to get this seller shut down. An entrepreneur, on the other hand, would see an opportunity and go head-to-head with this seller. If his business practices are so awful, it must be possible for someone else to do a better job.
.
.
Whiny...i think you're just being shortsighted, or perhaps you're not smart enough to see the whole picture. Competition is fine. I have many competitors. I can fight them on a fair and level playing field. But what you're suggesting is that I get in the gutter with this seller and use the same tactics they do, or perfect them...maybe add a dash of shill bidding, or a pinch of bid shielding to goose up the prices.
.
.
.And again, there are a LOT of more important
things wrong with eBay that need fixing!
.
.
.I agree. Why don't you post your list of the top 50 problems and we'll deal with them one at a time, starting with number 1.
posted on January 3, 2003 04:54:18 PM new
pointy,
fluffycat is asking you to come up with a better mousetrap ,as we all know she has,asking ebay to let her block a billion bidders.
why not 10 billions,soon there will be 10 billions on this planet.
the way i see it,if a seller runs auction with no reserve and then cancel the auctions as he does not like the high bid amount,he is not too bright,as we all know bids are getting lower and lower on ebay.
if he continues to do so,it could be he has nothing else better to do,or he is born with a silver spoon in his mouth or he is collecting bidders so he can contact them later.
i dont see why it should bother other sellers,many bidders are addicted to bidding,they just cant resist bidding on the open bid and move on to other mischief.
unless you are one of these bidders who think you can get the item at a low low price and then see it slip away at the last minute.
posted on January 3, 2003 05:35:48 PM new
I suspect that the seller is harvesting e-mail addresses and bidders, and closing deals off Ebay....but this I just suspect. I do know that if I list 100 auctions with NO Reserve and a starting price that is my minimum acceptable price...it costs me $330. If this seller lists 100 items in their way, with $1, No Reserve, but cancelling bids and stopping auctions if their minimum acceptable price is not met, it costs them $30. Is this fair, or is this an abuse of the rules?
posted on January 3, 2003 05:59:47 PM new
It's ebay's task to close these huge loopholes that allow sellows to gather emails or prostective buyers at very low cost to the seller.
Perhaps a limit to the number of auctions a seller can close early in a certain time period would help remedy the situation? If ebay doesn't see the need to implement any preventive measures then maybe ebay doesn't think the problem is too widespread yet.
posted on January 3, 2003 06:03:18 PM new
but how effective is this sales tactic?
i know ebay bidders are fickle,if you approach them later,the fever is gone.
most of them are not interested,it is the chase which is fun to them,and in this case,not only is the seller a killjoy,he is asking them in private to pony up more money.
posted on January 3, 2003 07:05:47 PM new
tooltimes.....in talks with Ebay they have told me that this loophole is a priority concern for them. Whether this can be believed is another matter. I don't know if the people that I'm talking to at Ebay are high enough in the pecking order to really know what's a priority. I suspect that profits are the #1 priority, and that Ebay is as shortsighted on this issue as some others here who have expressed their opinion. It certainly wouldn't be the first time for Ebay. Persistence is the key in fighting all issues with Ebay. In responding to the people here who have chosen to disagree with my stance, it's helped me and give me more ideas in how to approach this with Ebay. I don't think that you can make a number or percentage limit, as each case and category is different. Perhaps a monetary penalty of some sort is the answer, but at this point, I'm not going to think of ways to close the loophole. I am initially looking for ideas on how to impress upon Ebay that this IS a serious loophole. Once they realize it needs to be dealt with, they'll decide in their own wisdom(sic) how to deal with it. Hopefully the solution will not be worse than the problem.
.
.
.This is not just about harvesting e-mails and off Ebay deals.....this I can only just suspect. And I'm not looking to have the seller thrown off Ebay. The seller is just 1 of 1000 competitors. It is about forcing a competitor to play by the same rules as the rest of us, and having those rules be fair for the community.
[ edited by pointy on Jan 3, 2003 07:15 PM ]
[ edited by pointy on Jan 3, 2003 07:27 PM ]
posted on January 3, 2003 10:10:30 PM new
I hate this dihonest practice. It is often called a "virtual reserve".
One of the auction support services has or had a tool to automate the process. (I.E. service will cancel at preset time if given price not met.)
posted on January 12, 2003 05:36:11 PM new
Pointy, If this is a big problem, why not bid on some items? It sounds like you are familiar enough with this area to know when one of this sellers items are way below where they should be. If you're high bidder and seller cancels the auction, you can complain as Potential Buyer, not as competitor. If seller goes though with sale, if item went for less than it should, you should be able to list it your self. if Seller approaches you for off-eBay purchase, well, then, you can send that direct to eBay.
posted on January 12, 2003 06:43:43 PM new
Pointy - I've noticed a trend I'm wondering about... Is every one really a scam artist in your eyes and all that are in disagreement with you truly "shortsighted"?
Lets really look at what's happening
1) By ending auctions early evil seller is in actuality simply missing out on the majority of bids which we all know happen in the last hour of bidding ( have had items gain well over $100 in bidding during that time)
2) If high bid is below what seller wants, why would a bidder agree to the requested price which is higher than his/her current bid as would be in the case of you "Harvesting e-mail for fee avoidance" scenerio.
3) If this is a competitor why do you care? Obviously his bidders are going to go elsewhere... possibly to you. If they want the item, they want the item whether they get it on this auction or the next.
It really comes down to a simply answer - the seller is running less than efficient auctions and until ebay says differently- it's his/her right to do so.
