posted on February 19, 2003 07:26:19 AM new
I have a few pairs of boots that are very similar to a style by Manolo Blahnik. The ones that I am selling are also by a very popular manufacturer, whose prices don't even come close to Manolos.
The boots kinda look like Timberlands® with high heels.
I listed 2 pairs of the boots. The auction ads are identical except for the boot sizes.
Yesterday I get an email from ebay saying that ONE of the auctions was ended by a VERO member.
Several things are crazy:
1) They only ended one auction.
2) I did not mention any designer names or anything in the auction. In fact, I did not even mention the manufacturer of the boots themselves. All I had was 6 good photos of the boots and a very good description.
3) I went to the website of the VERO member and Timberland is one of their clients. The boots look like a Timberland® with heels, but I never mentioned that or the word in my description.
Does ebay even look at an auction before they allow someone to end it?
posted on February 19, 2003 07:35:47 AM new
it sounds like the vero member just found one and it looks like timberland,so he ended the auction.
hard to argue with these people.
posted on February 19, 2003 07:38:52 AM new
my understanding is that you can appeal to Ebay, then the vero holder has to prove that they hold vero for your particular item. I could be wrong
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posted on February 19, 2003 07:43:59 AM new
Dejapooh is right you can appeal the listing. Then it will be allowed because they don't have a "boot" to stand on. Good luck.
posted on February 19, 2003 08:12:53 AM new
author of this thread said this slimy vero guy website said he is working for timberland boots.
so if your boots look like timberland boots and you dont mention timberland,you get the boot??
many things look alike,makers copy each other design
posted on February 19, 2003 08:50:13 AM newso if your boots look like timberland boots and you dont mention timberland,you get the boot??
I guess so. Timberland® did not even make the original boots. Blahnik did. Many just say they resemble a Timberland®.
I found over 100 current auctions that actually use "Timberland" in the description for boots that are similar to mine. Many of those also use the word in the title.
posted on February 19, 2003 08:57:52 AM new
Yo! DumplingBreath: remember, feeBay does NOT go looking for this stuff! Some jerk reported ya -- either a competitor or some other schmuck!
Ralphie loves Mr Blonde:
"Are you gonna bark all day little doggie, or are you gonna bite?" http://tinyurl.com/5duz
posted on February 19, 2003 09:32:36 AM new
I just got this email from the VERO member.
I am a lawyer for The Timberland Company ("Timberland". Our client designs, engineers and markets premium quality footwear, apparel and accessories for men, women and children under the Timberland® brand name and the Timberland PRO™ series sub-brand.
Timberland owns a number of United States trademark registrations for the TIMBERLAND mark for various classifications of goods and services. Our client is also the owner of numerous worldwide registrations for the TIMBERLAND mark. TIMBERLAND products are sometimes referred to as TIMS by members of the general public.
It appears that your product is not a TIMBERLAND product but rather a pair of replica Manolo Blahnik "Okla" boots. Using the short form, TIMS, of the TIMBERLAND mark in the title and description of your auction for a non-TIMBERLAND product to attract people to that auction is potentially an act of infringement and/or unfair competition in violation of section 43(a) of the Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C. 1125(a), as well as related state causes of action.
Of course, you are welcome to reinitiate an auction that correctly identifies the product being auctioned without making any inaccurate use of our client's TIMBERLAND name and mark, or its short form TIMS.
posted on February 19, 2003 09:47:14 AM new
Well you said you did not use the product name, but its pretty certain what "tims" means, so in fact you did and technicaly you are in violation. I am sure someone turned this in and thats why just this one got pulled but you are in violation.
posted on February 19, 2003 10:00:26 AM new
so,is the mystery solved??TIMS is found in item description??
or someone thinks we have nothing else to do but eat cookies,play patty cake and take a nap.
so long,it is my nap time.
posted on February 19, 2003 10:00:26 AM newWell you said you did not use the product name, but its pretty certain what "tims" means, so in fact you did and technicaly you are in violation. I am sure someone turned this in and thats why just this one got pulled but you are in violation
I didn't violate anything.
1) I have never in my life heard Timberland referred to as "tims".
2) The style name of the boot is "tims"
3) "tims" was never mentioned in my auction in any way shape or form.
4) the only place I can imagine they saw tims is that my photos were named tims1.jpg, tims2.jpg, etc... I name my photos by style name. It is a common practice.
No one turned me in. This was pulled by the VERO member. Ebay ended it because a member of our Verified Rights Owner (VeRO) Program notified us, under penalty of perjury, that your item infringes their copyright, trademark, or other rights.
edited to add:
They do not have a trademark on the word "tims".
[ edited by biskitsandgravie on Feb 19, 2003 10:07 AM ]
posted on February 19, 2003 10:19:24 AM new
if the boots are named tims,then the maker is trying to impress customers they are like timberland boots as timberland fans know what tims stand for.
i think i will come up with a line of costume jewelry called cocoa channel.
these vero members must have good eyesight to spot tims on the shoes??
i would not worry about it,may be list them with something else and sell them in a lot.
posted on February 19, 2003 10:28:32 AM new
I would go through the VERO challenge process. My only experience with that process resulted in a very quick restoration of my item (a Ralph Lauren jacket.) In my experience, eBay employees just automatically end auctions ID'd by VERO members and don't actually read the listing until you challenge. If they had looked at my listing, they would have seen the photo of the store tags still attached, including the Dillard's clearance stickers!
The setup of VERO stinks. I had three bidders on my auction when it was shut down; the relisting only drew one of them back and one other bidder and the price never got back up to where it was previously.
If I were to propose a solution, it would be something like this: VERO members can still finger auctions, but instead of shutting them down altogether, eBay should suspend the auctions for a set period of time (say 24/48 hours.) Send an email to the seller, the bidders and the VERO member.
If the seller doesn't respond within the period of the suspension, eBay could go ahead and shut the auction down. In the meantime, the auction should still appear in the search function and category listings, but not accept any bids. (Perhaps there can be a "notify me if this auction becomes active" button.)
But if the seller contests, the onus should then revert to the VERO member to prove that the auction does, indeed, infringe. There might a provision to extend the suspension time period by one increment, whatever that is, while they get their evidence together - and there should also be a penalty (maybe a percentage of the auction's starting price with a set mimumum dollar figure per item) against the VERO member for bringing claims that are judged "not infringing" based on the auction listing alone. The program should also have a "so many strikes and you're out" provision for VERO members who abuse the process.
Having the suspended auctions remain in the listings would have the added benefit of exposing which VERO member are in fact abusing their privilege.
It's not a perfect proposal, but I do think it would be better than the current one .... what do you think?
posted on February 19, 2003 11:18:30 AM newthese vero members must have good eyesight to spot tims on the shoes??
"Tims" isn't even on the boots. The only place they could have seen "tims" is to right click on a photo and see the name.
if the boots are named tims,then the maker is trying to impress customers they are like timberland boots as timberland fans know what tims stand for
This particular manufacturer gives everything names like that. The auctual manufacturers name is Tims-17. They also have other shoes that are named "tims" but are not boots. Tims-06 is a high heeled sandal.
I have asked 5 men that wear Timberland if they had ever heard the called "tims". Four of them gave me a look that said I was strange. The other said that he has heard them called "timbs", not "tims" and that was only once. All of the men own several pairs of timberland and 3 of them rarely wear any other brand.
msincognito: That is a great idea. Of course it is so great ebay will not us it.
I just don't understand why my other auction wasn't ended. As I said, it is identical to the ended auction.
posted on February 19, 2003 12:21:39 PM new
VERO and how it is operated is not a creation of ebay. It is the creation of the federal government through the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act).
Any owner/agent of a copyright, trademark, intellectual property, etc., need only properly inform ebay or any other ISP that an item on their servers infringes, and the ISP must remove the material, or face vicarious liability for the infringement. Why would ebay look at the material and make a determination ? That would be stupid of eBay, because if eBay is wrong and does not remove the material, they face liability.
If you want to blame anyone, blame the Congress, AOL,Disney and other corporations that pushed the law through.
posted on February 19, 2003 02:17:12 PM new
maker names all his products tims-xx and the name of the company ??tims??
this is just as bad as marking a porcelain box made in limoge,china.
where in the map is there a place called limoge,china??
but then some imitations are quite well made and affordable too.
i wont mind wearing a fake rolex to impress someone.
posted on February 19, 2003 04:19:43 PM newmaker names all his products tims-xx and the name of the company ??tims??
I don't know what thread you have been reading the name of the company is Timberland not tims.
The manufacturer does not name all of their products tims-xx. And even if he did timberland does not make high heels or platform shoes. As I said earlier they do not have a trademark on the name either.
A few styles from the manufacturer's spring 2003 catalog:
You get the idea. They name all of their shoes after people.
The manufacturer of my shoes is just as well known if not more so than Timberland. They don't need to impress anyone and their shoes are the same price range ($60-$150).
I can't wait to see what ebay says. I think they screwed up.
posted on February 19, 2003 04:54:42 PM new
Biskits: Just appeal to ebay. It will take a few days for them to figure out what is going on.
About 2 weeks ago Timberland yanked an auction of mine (it had a galley photo) for the same "tims" crap. I didn't have the word "tims" in my auction. They didn't end three other identical auctions that I had going at the same time. I think they saw the gallery photo and jumped the gun. How Timberland could mistake an $800 pair of Manolo Blahniks for their unsexy footwear is beyond me. Perhaps it is something about that style that is making them crazy.
I got pretty much the same letter as you, from their attorney.
From the style names you listed, I am assuming you are selling boots by DH. If anyone should be complaining it should be Blahnik. Those boots look pretty close to the originals. If you are on friendly terms with any other sellers that are selling them, ask if any of them have had a similar situation with this VERO member. I know of one other seller that had an auction pulled and she said that she didn't have the word "tims" in hers either.
When they ended my auction there were over 200 auctions for non-Timberland boots using the word "tims" in the title.
Doesn't the trademark holder have to go after every incident of alleged infringement that the holder is aware of or the trademark becomes diluted?
Has anyone on this board ever heard Timberland called "tims"? Until I got the email from Timberland, I had never heard that term used.
. Our client designs, engineers and markets premium quality footwear, apparel and accessories for men, women and children under the Timberland® brand name and the Timberland PRO™ series sub-brand.