posted on March 11, 2003 07:47:29 PM new
Some guy just won one of my auctions. On my auction and on the winning bidder notice that is sent after the auction ends, I clearly state that I accept PayPal or Money Orders only. The guy sends me an email that says, "need pay info to pay via credit card other than pay pal". I email him back saying, "as stated on my auction, I accept PayPal or Money Orders only. Please let me know which method you'll be paying by."
I check out his feedback and notice that he has 4 negatives & 1 neutral (with 157 positive). His negatives indicated that he leaves "unreasonable feedback" and "does not pay attention to auctions then screws you on feedback". YIKES! I smell a RAT and I just KNOW he's going to leave me a negative for not accepting credit card transactions outside of PayPal.
I immediately went into my account and put him on the "Blocked Bidder" list so that he can't bid on future auctions. Is there anything else I can do to prevent getting an unreasonable negative from him?? Can I decide not to sell to him and offer it to the second highest bidder? I've never been in this situation before, so any advise would be appreciated!
posted on March 11, 2003 08:03:21 PM new
Send him an email explaining to him that the only way you can accept a CC is through paypal as it's the only CC account you have, which is true.
Be apologetic, be nice & ask for his understanding. You just may be able to avoid that neg & don't leave FB until he does. Above all keep your cool & don't get into a fight with him.
posted on March 11, 2003 08:08:50 PM new
I would politely tell him as before that you only accept credit cards via Paypal, that you do not have a separate merchant account, and does he still wish to complete the sale? Tell him that perhaps you should cancel the sale and it would release him to look for a seller who can accomodate him. He may still get nasty, but worth a try. Then file for FVF when you can.
I just went through a similar situation with a buyer who insisted after the auction closed that I take a personal check despite the fact that the auction states clearly in all caps (the only sentence in my short TOS in all caps) that I do not accept personal checks.
When I went the route of pointing to the TOS, she wanted to back out of the sale. I let her politely know that she was in a legally binding contract and I would follow Ebay's guidelines in the matter. She ran over and gave me my first neg as fast as she could.
Some buyers think since you are an individual, not a big corporation, that they can browbeat you into changing your terms and policies to suit them. Unreasonable demands from a buyer with an attitude irk us all.
Sticking to one's policies gives stability. A large company would simply ask the customer if they still want the item and here's the forms of payment we take. But the B&M stores don't have to contend with feedback "terrorism".
posted on March 11, 2003 08:13:36 PM new
Unfortunately I already sent him an email saying that I accept PayPal or Money Orders only.
My next question is . . . when does eBay kick someone off? Isn't after 3 negatives? This guy has 4 negatives and 1 neutral, but he also has 157 positives. Does eBay go according to his overall percentage of negative feedback before kicking him off, or do they go according to the number of negatives a person gets? Thanks guys for your help!!
posted on March 11, 2003 08:20:30 PM new
If he wants to pay by credit card through someone other than Paypal, tell him he can pay via Bidpay. I personally don't accept Paypal but I have the Bidpay link in all my auctions and quite a few of my customers use it. I would encourage him to use it. It will give you a feel of how Bidpay works. If you sell internationally, that's the only option you want to use for credit cards.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on March 11, 2003 08:21:44 PM new
sapington has it right. If this guy is such a loose cannon the last thing you want is to take a CC paypal payment.
Bidpay is a money order and its safe for you.
when does eBay kick someone off? Isn't after 3 negatives?
Negs mean nothing! Sellers have to file for their fees and then they get the boot.
posted on March 11, 2003 08:33:12 PM new
Thanks everyone! I did what you said and emailed him again, saying that he can use his credit card to pay for a Money Order on BidPay. I'll let you all know what becomes of this.
Just a quick question- why is it that you wouldn't want to accept international CC transactions via PayPal?
posted on March 11, 2003 08:42:15 PM new
Heavens, I didn't know this was an international sale. Paypal guarantees nothing on these sales, your on your own.
I would not accept a CC payment from him, if he does a chargeback you have no recorse with Paypal.
posted on March 11, 2003 09:08:18 PM new
Paypal offers no protection to you on international transactions. If the buyer does a chargeback, you eat it. In some countries, credit card fraud is extremely high and you have a better than even chance of getting burned through Paypal because they don't verify the card when they accept it. It may take them up to a month or more to discover the card was stolen. With Bidpay, they will verify the card prior to issueing the money order. You will get 2 emails from Bidpay. The first will be to let you know the buyer has applied for a money order. The second will be to let you know the money order has been issued (or denied). DO NOT ship the item until you receive the SECOND email from Bidpay. If he attempts a chargeback, it will be against Bidpay, and you will not be affected. The only way he can do a chargeback against them is if they fail to send you a money order. The best part of the whole arrangement is, you pay no fees. He does.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on March 11, 2003 09:40:33 PM newwhy is it that you wouldn't want to accept international CC transactions via PayPal?
For most, but not all I will take bidpay only as its the only safe way to go. For some bidders where they want the cheapest shipping[read slow boat] then email after one week "wheres my stuff?" when the time could be from one to three months to get there.
This way I do not worry about chargebacks because they jump the gun too soon. Never mind the fact if their customs opens the parcel then do not repack it the way it was and it gets to the buyer with damage then they whine to you.
sorry, they screw it up then take up any claims with them.
posted on March 11, 2003 10:06:15 PM new
Meadowlark, you wrote,
"When I went the route of pointing to the TOS, she wanted to back out of the sale. I let her politely know that she was in a legally binding contract and I would follow Ebay's guidelines in the matter. She ran over and gave me my first neg as fast as she could."
Personally, if I got a response that said, "I let her politely know that she was in a legally binding contract and I would follow Ebay's guidelines in the matter." I'd leave a neg and move on, too. It's such a snippy response, and it's customer disservice like that which keeps people off of eBay. In almost any retail store, you can return an item w/ receipt. Many will take back open items, some don't even require a box! Costco will let you return stuff a year later. In the midst of all that, if I got threatened by a buyer b/c I misread the ToS BEFORE(!) I paid, I'd leave a neg.
eBay's minimum rules are more seller-friendly than 90%+ of retail establishments. Don't expect people to accept sub-par service just because eBay doesn't make you do better.
posted on March 11, 2003 10:41:20 PM new
Who dreamed up this 3 negs and your out bull. Go look at Sears! It's 3 npb and yer history. When e bay refunds money they get rid of the problem for them.....as long as Sellers,,,,, bother them for the Refunds....
Snap! snap! snap!,,,,,,Whiiiiiip it, Whiiiiip it GOOD! OOOOuch!
posted on March 11, 2003 11:07:27 PM newIn almost any retail store, you can return an item w/ receipt. Many will take back open items, some don't even require a box! Costco will let you return stuff a year later.
And many of those stores including Walmart are changing their policies because of consumer abuse and fraud. They can't afford the losses.
The average small ebay seller can't afford to take these hits. ebay started as an auction and some of the buyers don't seem to see it that way. They want it on their terms and for the lowest price, the cheapest shipping, the most guarantees and the option to return if they grow tired of it or find it cheaper on the next auction.
I don't think meadowlark was being snippy. She was running her business as she sees fit and she probably was polite but firm. Everytime a buyer backs out on a sale or returns an item for no just reason it costs the seller time and money.
posted on March 12, 2003 05:42:44 AM new
paypal or bidpay cannot verify intl credit card bill to address,except uk,hence no seller protection.
bidpay does not verify address of overseas buyers ,thats why they only provide this service to auctions ,as we all have to register to bid in auctions.
amzn seems to have a way of verifying intl credit card transactions,dunno how they do it??
posted on March 12, 2003 06:31:48 AM new
From Walmart.com:
Your complete shopping satisfaction is our number one priority. If an item you order from Walmart.com does not meet your expectations, simply return it by one of the methods below.
Pretty lax return policy, but hey eBay sellers want to play major retailer... when it suits them...LOL
If more buyers negged for poor customer service... things might start getting better again on eBay.
As far as this instance, I would just write off the buyer and take whatever feedback they give with a grain of salt... could save you alot of greif in the future, you take a bad cc through paypal and your account could be locked for quite sometime.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Mar 12, 2003 06:33 AM ]
posted on March 12, 2003 08:39:35 AM new
Twelve - it's a nice sentence - try actually doing it. I recently accompanied a friend to a friend trying to return a set of video cables. Cables were still sealed, receipt was with them, but from a different store (same chain, different store 50 miles away). It took 2 CS reps and finally a manager to get a refund.
Try exchanging a gift video game these days. The only retailer here that will even take a return for store credit is Target and then you MUST exchange for another electronics item on that day.
BTW - why is it that you are so annoyed when another seller decides to adopt policies similar to large stores? Why do you insist on berating other sellers for their operating procedures just because their school of thought differs from your own?
You are right. I was not snippy. The buyer was fairly inexperienced and I gently and kindly educated her on how Ebay works. She was a bad attitude case to begin with and was determined to have things exactly her way, was infelxible, and left a neg before even trying to work something out.
She likley would have been a problem even if I did take personal checks.
What do you think Wal-Mart would think if I insisted thay change their policy for me? HA!They'd laugh in my face! And I spent a LOT there.
I do give very good customer service, but don't let buyers walk over me. The fact that I have consistent glowing feedback with only one neg proves it.
Methinks another poster here might be a routinely bad attitude buyer. LOL!
posted on March 12, 2003 09:02:00 AM new
trai, et al. FYI, it is not negs that get you a NARU, It is 3 NPB's. There are sellers with dozens of Negs & they are still in business.
I understand that, thats why I said this.
To file for your fees you have to start by filing npb.
when does eBay kick someone off? Isn't after 3 negatives? Negs mean nothing! Sellers have to file for their fees and then they get the boot.
posted on March 12, 2003 09:17:30 AM new
twelvepole, even Walmart has restrictions on their returns and you will find it if you bother to look under "other return policies". And if you return too often your name is put on a list and you will have to get special approval from the manager for future returns.
neonmania, twelvepole always berates other sellers for their policies. I think she suffers from seller envy because she may never be able to attain their standards.
posted on March 12, 2003 09:59:17 AM newWhy do you insist on berating other sellers for their operating procedures just because their school of thought differs from your own?
How two faced do eBay sellers want to be precieved? It is not school of thought on my own... but how you look to buyers... First you want to be treated as "person", then when you are, you say no "Look at (name a retail outlet) they don't allow that and neither do I" You know that people used enjoy doing eBay for the "personal" touch and to communicate with people of similar interests... just look at some of the posters here and you can see why sales at eBay are down.
Kiara, I am a MAN Baby... do you ever have an original thought or are just a parrot?
I see nothing wrong with a list but still doesn't preclude a buyer from a return now does it?
Some of you Paypal people better go look at their new terms of service...
posted on March 12, 2003 10:28:28 AM new
I see both sides of this as I am a buyer as well as a seller. When I buy I treat the sellers with respect and when I sell I treat my buyers with respect. I have had very few problems.
Perhaps buyers and sellers enter many transactions with suspicion and imagine problems that never materialize.
Some of you Paypal people better go look at their new terms of service... twelvepole, that is another one of your statements that leads me to believe that you are always under the impression that all sellers are out to rip off their customers. If you actually sold something you may get a more balanced view of the way things are.
This board does focus on bad sellers and bad buyers because both come here for advice. But the majority of ebay transactions go very well, most buyers are good people and so are most sellers.
I wasn't totally positive of your gender, twelvepole and when you posted the cute little mouse and strawberry it made me wonder. Okay, now I know for sure. Kiara, I am a MAN Baby
posted on March 12, 2003 11:01:11 AM new
Twelve- my problem is that you assume that all sellers want to "be seen as people". Not neccessarily true. I played that game, I quite honestly don't want a personal relationship with any of my buyers, on any of my accounts. I also don't think that 90% of the buyers on ebay come for the "personal touches", they come for bargains and rarity. I sell on ebay to make money, I go out to make friends. I don't sell when I am at the bar and I don't make friends on ebay. I like it that way.
posted on March 12, 2003 11:18:12 AM new
Well neonmania, I guess we are all entitled to our opinions... I buy and sell mostly collectibles... rare and sometimes at a bargin( so they think and probably so I think) but for me it is the personal contacts I have made and enjoyment of the "find" that keeps me at eBay... but I can see I would be better off looking at other venues to get my items... Internet is coming along nicely in the selling field and who knows I may have purchased somethings from some you sellers web sites...
That is where the true online selling will be in the future...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on March 12, 2003 11:37:02 AM newOh so I can't be nice sometimes? Nothing wrong with that. When I saw that little mouse I even went "Awwwwww".
You talk so often about the bad seller, returns, chargebacks, postal fraud, etc. that I can't help but wonder how many bad buying experiences you have had.
Anyone who has numerous bad buying experiences in real life and on ebay should perhaps start questioning why this is. I would ask if it is always the store's fault, the ebay seller's fault or the manufacturer's fault or could it possibly be something that I am doing wrong as a buyer.
posted on March 12, 2003 11:41:53 AM new
Twelve - for what you are selling, you probably are in the right for for taking a more personal touch. It does depend on the product. Rare and collectible products need a little finessing. More common items being purchased by people looking for bargains, or items not available in their area just require speed and accuracy. I'm doing a slow build on one of my accounts to a 400-500 auction per week rate (since its DVD and games, it has to be a slow build considering that these are fav items among the scammers these days). There just is not enought time in the day for me to try to be personal with those quantities.
posted on March 12, 2003 12:00:36 PM new
Just to clear up the feedback thing ... 3 NPB or a feedback rating of -4 (meaning four more negatives than positives) will get you kicked off. The negative feedback rating has to be brought to eBay's attention, however. So to be kicked off for negatives alone, slhsato's buyer would have to have 161 negatives to 157 positives.
Let us know how it goes!
edited to add: trai, I said "3 NPB OR a negative feedback rating of -4.
[ edited by msincognito on Mar 14, 2003 07:59 AM ]
[ edited by Twelvepole on Mar 12, 2003 06:33 AM ]