posted on April 2, 2003 01:43:44 PM new
I won a jewelry lot on ebay of about 20 items and now I want to list a few of them individually.
I copied the photos to a floppy so that I would be sure I got all the items as promised (sellers will sometime erase asap.)
I took a few pictures and to be honest - her's were just better on some of the pieces. Would it be wrong to use the photos I downloaded?
Thanks
posted on April 2, 2003 02:01:04 PM new
I personally would not use her pics. I would take my own, or have someone else do it that maybe can take a better picture. Some folks get really upset when their pictures are reused by someone else. If you just don't feel comfortable using yours, send her an email, asking nicely if you can borrow some of her pictures. That way, either way it will be ok. Hope everything works out ok for ya.
posted on April 2, 2003 02:17:05 PM new
ladyjewels,
Yes. If you did not take the picture, then it is not yours to use. (you won the items in the auction... not the rights to the photo.) It would be wrong for you to use the pictures UNLESS you asked the seller for permission. There are actually copyright laws that pertain to this matter and not only would it be against eBay policy, it could be an infringement upon their copyright. (note that a picture does NOT have to have any copyright information on it to be protected by copyright law!)
Personally, if a bidder of mine asked me to use one of my pictures to re-sell the item... I would seriously consider their request. I would not allow them to use it if it was an item I reguarly sold... but if it was a one-of-a-kind item, I would figure that in letting them use my picture I might establish a good relationship with the buyer (in other words sell them more stuff!)
posted on April 2, 2003 02:37:08 PM new
Thanks
I had considered asking but felt that would almost be a slap in the face.
I normally do very well with my photos but must have been having an off day. Guess I'll just try again.
posted on April 2, 2003 03:14:25 PM new
It's against eBays rules to use someone else's pictures without permission. I think if you used them and didn't ask and then the seller saw her pictures she could turn you into eBay. I had a buyer that bought a piece of Jewelry from me and she asked if she could use it on her website and I did give her permission.
posted on April 2, 2003 09:07:59 PM new
I run a large motorsports related website. Quite often I'll see a picture
in a current auction that I'd like to use somewhere on my site. I'll e-mail
the seller and have yet to be refused permission. Of course I offer image
credit and a link to their website or "About Me" page. Most people decline
the links but sometimes they'll even send me more pictures or other info.
And I'm not going to use the picture in a auction but people are very kind.
Just ask them.
posted on April 3, 2003 03:14:40 AM new
ladyjewels,
I have also asked and been given permission to use somebody's picture before. Not everyone sees their photos as priceless artwork, just a few very pompous sellers do.
posted on April 3, 2003 09:22:31 AM new
rariffle, (and twelvepole!)
"Not everyone sees their photos as priceless artwork, just a few very pompous sellers do"
I do not consider myself to be a "pompous seller" but I do know the value of my work, and don't appreciate others stealing it. I have worked in the photographic field for over 20 years. As a result, I take very professional photographs (taking into consideration lighting, neutral backgrounds, close-ups, etc...). Taking a good photograph DOES take time. Time IS money. If I let my competitors steal my pictures, they can undercut my prices (because unlike some hobby sellers, I factor in ALL the work I do for an auction.. including working with my images). I also happen to know that copyright law is on my side. Since the mid-eighties... a professional photographer does not have even have to have any identifying copyright marks on their images. It doesn't matter if you make changes to the image... you still can not use it in ANY form! Fines for this have been awarded to photographers in excess of $100,000.00. (not that it's likely you'd get hit with that from an eBay seller). But... bottom line is it is WRONG and potentially ILLEGAL (not just against eBay policy) to use other sellers images. Just don't do it. Invest in a good camera and LEARN how to take pictures like the rest of us.
posted on April 3, 2003 10:16:22 AM new
I agree with eauctionmgnt on this one. Learn to take better pictures.
If ladyjewels2000 has made an honest effort to take her own pics and isn't satisfied with them I see no harm in her contacting the seller and asking, at least she tried.
For those that suggest to just steal them, crop them, etc. it reminds me of the kids that stole other's homework and they never went on to achieve much in life because all they ever did was ride on the coat tails of others and never learned to have an original thought of their own or the gumption to do things for themselves.
posted on April 3, 2003 10:32:19 AM new
Sweetheart you keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better... all's fair in business until you get caught... then just have some good offshore accounts.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Apr 3, 2003 05:24 PM ]
posted on April 3, 2003 10:34:26 AM new
I use other pics when I can get them, and don't care if people use mine. Love the pics I get from Amazon, too. So sue me for copyright infringement. BFD.
posted on April 3, 2003 10:47:10 AM new
With copyright law being as complicated as it is, I do have some sympathy for those who violate it by accident/ignorance. For those of you who continue to abuse copyright EVEN THOUGH YOU KNOW IT IS WRONG... you MAKE ME SICK!!! It is no different then saying that you can make a good living by shoplifting (if you're not caught). It is dispicable, unethical, illegal, immoral, and to be ashamed of. STOP DOING IT!!!! It is people like rariffle, twelvepole, and pelorus that make me continue to keep an eye on competitors auctions to protect my own interests.
There is nothing more shocking to an honest person than to realize that not all people in the world are as honest as they are.
posted on April 3, 2003 11:03:14 AM new
I take really good photos of the items I sell. I think that is one of the advantages I have over competitors. If someone asks to use an old photo, sometimes I say yes.
I have had people booted off their servers for copyright infringement. One yahoo stores seller was in the hot seat for using my photos recently.
Speaking of copyright... how about all those sellers that use images from catalogs and other websites?
In the apparel cats I know that sellers have been shut down and suspended for that.
I sold a a pair of boots that had some really inticate detailing. My photos were good, but the manufacturer had one that really showed off the detailing. I asked and got permission to use the photo. Several weeks later another seller asked if she could use the photo. I told her to contact the manufacturer. She didn't and her auction was shut down. I found out when she wrote me a nasty email accusing me of turning her in.
As for using photos off of websites...You ain't felt pain until you get a letter from Disney about copyright infringement. A seller in my area had that happen. He had used photos from the Disney Store ( I think that is the name of it) site. Apparently the letter was pretty nasty, he was freaked out. His auctions were ended also.
He is the type that cheats the elderly, so I was happy it happened to him.
posted on April 3, 2003 11:28:57 AM new
Jewelry is really hard to photograph well. You need a good telephoto lens and ideally, an enclosed box that miminizes the reflections bouncing around.
A cheaper, easier solution is to put the pieces on the scanner with a black (or white or yellow) piece of fabric smoothed over them to serve as background. I also use a piece of clear acetate to protect my scanner lens from scratches. If you set your scanner on high resolution you'll get great pix than can then be resized down.
However, I have also had great luck asking sellers of items I've bought if I can re-use their pictures. (Especially with clothing that didn't fit.) Then I just give credit to them at the end and put a link to their feedback page or something. (I'm not sure that kind of linking is still legal, but it's been a long time since I re-listed anything I'd bought.)
posted on April 3, 2003 06:43:06 PM new
For individuals, enforcing a copyright is tough. If you send a take down notice to the ISP, you must also agree that any leagal action will be in the infringer's jurisdiction.
And all the "infringer" has to do when they get a take down notice against them is file a counter-notice and the material can be re-posted.
At some point you will have to prove that the image is your too, or better put, you are the creator of this original image. The smart infringers just dispute the pictures ownership and who can say who the originator is ?
The bottom line- unless you have the money to pursue an infringer, you're SOL. And even if you have the money to pursue them, how much money do they have ?
posted on April 3, 2003 08:49:55 PM new
Since you bought the product as a wholesale lot for resale, there is nothing wrong with copying the photos. But I would reverse the images or change the view slightly. Also, never use any other links that are not yours. Upload your own links. However, if you do have your own photos, those should be used first.
Good luck and good selling.
posted on April 3, 2003 10:23:25 PM new
On occasion I have had a customer ask if they could use one of my jpgs. I usually inquire whether it is for the web or if they are using it in print I generally let them have it in psd format if print. If I can aid someone in reselling an item I have sold I am glad to.
posted on April 3, 2003 11:12:25 PM new
I did a "work for hire" web page last month for a good client and was asked to update
it the other evening with some info and pictures he sent me that I later discovered
were already on another webpage that my client is supposed to own on a website
owned by another party. Now the copyright lines on both pages are in my clients
name but the other website itself is owned by another party.
Well, a lot of the graphics and images on the other sites page were done by me.
Of course my client owns them. He can use them wherever he wants. So, I took the
new images (per his request from a page carrying his copyright and which he payed
or contracted for in some manner) and used them on his other page on my host. Two
days later I get a nasty e-mail from the other site owner asking me, "who the h... gave
me permission to use his pictures.".
So here's some "goof-up" accusing me of stealing pictures off a site that was over
one half pictures and graphics that I did in the first place. I just forwarded the whole
e-mail to my client and let him iron it out. The client e-mails me later asking that I
give the other guy picture credit since he spent a big bunch of time capturing the
images off a video. Sheesh! Then my client apologized to me. As far as I can see,
He did nothing wrong to either of us.
My point? Nobody understands copyright. My client actually took most of the
pictures and the video. I just made them look good with a scanner, some decent
software and the little bit of skill I've acquired over the years I've done this. Both of
us site creators got all the credit we ever deserved when we cashed our checks. If
I'd of known, I'd of asked the client to clear the images with the other site creator.
So if you need a picture someone else created then ask them. If they say no then
thank them and go create your own. Make it better than theirs while your at it! And
keep in mind sometimes people "steal, modify and crop" an image and consider it
theirs. When you later get permission to use that image you're really not getting the
owners permission since it wasn't theirs to begin with. A scanner, a digital camera
and some software ain't a bad investment. You're best off to make your own pictures.
posted on April 4, 2003 01:56:17 AM neweauctionmgt,
your attitude is just the kind I was talking about.
they are pictures of a product, they are nothing more. in my opinion, if the person purchased the only product you had like that, then the picture is no longer any good to you.
my daddy once told me there was one quick way to get rich. "buy a person for what their worth and sell them for what they think their worth. just wait patiently until you found the right person." i think you're what he had in mind.
posted on April 4, 2003 06:07:54 AM new
rarfiffle,
And your attitude is exactly what I was talking about. Grow up people. At least it IS encouraging that a good number of people posting to this board DO seem to understand the basics of Copyright and are trying to abide by it. To the rest of you... you know it is wrong now. WHY won't you just learn how to take a good picture??? Believe it or not... it is actually LESS time consuming to take a good picture then to search through all the web-pages out there to find the right one. Not to mention... that sometimes the pictures you use are not an exact representation of YOUR item. (I hate the ones that use catalog shots to show a used item... OBVIOUSLY a used item does not usually look like a new one!). Finally, if you do steal other peoples photos... you are likely to be losing sales. Intelligent bidders shop around. They recognize other peoples photographs. My way of thinking... (and I'm sure others agree) is that if a seller is willing to bend/break the rules on one thing... then they might not be trusted in other things as well. So, I stay clear of those auctions. Who knows how many sales you might lose? Believe me... taking your own pictures will save you a LOT of hassle AND should help you sleep better at night! (although for those of you who obviously care little for the differences of right and wrong, I'm sure it won't make any difference.)
posted on April 4, 2003 09:17:29 AM new
Perhaps some hobby sellers who only sell the occasional item find it easier to steal pictures instead of taking the effort to do their own. Anyone who sells books or DVD's can find lots of pics to steal. But for those that plan to seriously sell on the internet, picture taking is an art that they will eventually have to learn if they wish to be successful.
I have let others use my pics when they have asked and I never waste time to see if anyone is stealing mine. One other seller that did steal my pics and description actually wrote me to complain when I listed another limited edition as he thought I had made a mistake, not realizing I had about 10 of them to sell. That's how I found out he stole mine as we were running two identical auctions. I didn't report him but decided to do better pics and a better description and my item sold for more than his.
For those of you who cruise through life copying others, you will never even begin to reach your full potential.
posted on April 4, 2003 12:45:19 PM newI thought imitation was the sincerest form of flattery?
lol, that is always the common phrase or excuse that is used by people who plagiarize the work of others because they are too lazy or not creative enough to do things for themselves.
People who continue to do this may "function" in business and be content. But some of us like to know that we work for ourselves and have our own ideas. I guess it all comes down to how we feel about ourselves as a person. You do things your way and I'll do things my way. Whatever makes us happy, okay?
posted on April 8, 2003 09:06:26 AM new
The deal with copyright law is this: It's absolute. If you take someone else's work without permission, you've violated the law. It's that simple.
There are two reasons to honor copyright law. The first is that you save yourself far more hassle in the long run, as jnash points out, if you just follow the law, get permission when you want to use something and don't use it if that permission is not forthcoming.
The second reason is that using copyrighted work without permission is stealing, and stealing is wrong - whether you're talking about a 10-cent piece of candy from Wal-Mart or a Tiffany diamond from a little old lady.
The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that photographs of an item (even a book or video cover) become NEW works - and thus protected by a separate copyright.
I disagree with REAMOND that enforcing a copyright is tough for an individual. On the Internet, where many transactions are time-dated, it's fairly easy to prove when your image or written passage was first made available to the public. And in my experience, going directly to someone's Internet service provider or, in this case, eBay, usually results in the offending material being pulled in very short order. Sometimes a mere assertion is all that's needed, and providers don't have very much patience at all for repeat offenders.
Personally, I'll give almost anyone permission to use my images or words if they ask, so long as they are not a direct competitor. But I go after copyright theft hard and fast, and so far I've had 100 percent success in wresting the offending material away. On one occasion, I even got an apology and a gift from a fairly large corporation! I've never paid a dime in lawyer's fees on these, either.
