posted on May 2, 2003 11:48:38 AM new
April 30, 2003
The Federal Trade Commission and 29 states have launched a campaign to crack down on Internet auction fraud, federal and state officials said Wednesday.
Online-auction fraud is the No. 1 type of Internet-related complaint tracked by the FTC in terms of volume, according to the agency. The FTC received about 51,000 complaints regarding online-auction scams in 2002, representing about $37 million in losses, said Howard Beales, director of the FTC Bureau of Consumer Protection. That number likely represents just a fraction of the actual number of rip-offs that occurred, officials said.
Then they go on to mention ebay. The article is here at CNET:
posted on May 2, 2003 12:26:39 PM new
Yeah, this was all over the news a few days ago. I knew that my good ol' non-thinking American compatriots (look, folks, I love ya but your brains aren't exactly suffering from overuse) would swallow it sink, line and hooker.
Do the math.
37000000 / 51000 = $725.49
Assuming this is accurate, these are big-ticket items. Not what the average eBay seller vends.
Do I believe there are 51,000 people in this country stupid enough to send $725 to a complete stranger without checking their bona fides?
Oh, yes.
Do I believe this is symptomatic of a raging fraud problem in online auctions.
No way.
One more thing to consider, dear friends.
Any time there is a move afoot to regulate online auctioning, think about just who would benefit from such regulation.
You got it. The mass retailers who are getting hammered by cheap-cheap-cheap stuff selling on eBay. The WalMarts, Sears, Costcos, Targets, etc. of the world who have political clout...which is precisely what we the little folk lack.
--
"I'm thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said `I drank WHAT?'"
posted on May 2, 2003 01:05:09 PM new
lol, fluffy.
I just did a copy and paste from CNET.
It didn't mean that I swallow it sink, line and hooker.
And ya, I do believe that there are many who are stupid enough to send big amounts of $$$ to total strangers without checking them out. And of course, they would be the first ones to whine when they get ripped off.
These are the same kind of people that got ripped off over the phone and sent money to complete strangers or they bought boxes of bricks out of a truck with it's motor running in some dark alley, thinking they were getting some super electronics at a fantastic price. Now they have computers so they can be even stupider.
These are the folks that all you eBay sellers wanted in the beginning, to "trust" you into buying your items.
Now their trust is broken, you all will be complaining about regulation... you wouldn't police yourselves, now pay the piper.
Exactly what "Bona Fides" should they of checked? Some "power seller" on ebay that had amassed over 1000 fb until they decided to go in for the kill?
posted on May 2, 2003 01:55:50 PM new
Amazing that you can call yourself a seller, 12pole. Yet you insinuate that every other seller here and on ebay is a crook and that only you, yes YOU are the noble honest one.
Please show me your ID so I know who to deal with in the future. I would hate to be stupid and get ripped off so would like to deal with the only one on ebay who polices himself.
posted on May 2, 2003 01:58:29 PM new
Who was it who many years ago said,"There
s a sucker born every minute"? Was it P.T. Barnum or WC Fields? Of course there people out there that will always think they are getting something for nothing, when in fact they are getting nothing for something.
posted on May 2, 2003 02:22:36 PM new
12pole, sorry to disappoint you but you didn't hit a nerve. I don't rip people off on ebay or on my website or my RL business. I have never done it nor do I intend to.
You have spent years here pizzin' and moanin' about all the ripoff sellers and how you have had to do store returns, and chargebacks and claim mail fraud, etc. Anyone that has that much difficulty buying in RL and on the internet should start looking at what they are doing to bring all this on. But I think I said that once before to you.
And ya, it does bring the word stupid into my thoughts.
I have had my share of rip offs mostly online and only a few Retail, why? Because yes I was stupid enough to trust a seller...
Did I bring it on myself... you could say that, I bid and paid for the item, as I was supposed to...
I am probably part of those statistics that FTC quoted, hell I hope so, I made my complaints with them...
There is just no way you can check "bona fides" to keep from getting ripped off... but if the FTC were to put some regulations in place and some stiff penalties... things could get better...
posted on May 2, 2003 02:59:01 PM new
12pole:
Be careful what you wish for...you might get it. You are typical of the cry and whine people that make these boards and many others sickening.
You cry and whine about everyhting and everyone and then you hold yourself out to be God's gift to everything. Get a life.
posted on May 2, 2003 03:17:33 PM new
While I know there have been problems with fraud on E-Bay,I think it gets blowed out of proportion. I've been very happy with most of the items I've bought on E-Bay and I think most E-Bay sellers are safer to buy from than alot of places. I've been ripped off buying at a Flea Market more than any other place,I wonder why the news media don't jump on that one.
posted on May 2, 2003 03:19:16 PM new
kiara: Didn't mean you yourself would swallow it; meant the vast unwashed masses would. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Now they have computers so they can be even stupider.
My partner's uncle passed away a few months ago. He was very old; he apparently just laid down for a nap and never woke up. It was a few days before anyone found him since no one had been in his house for years.
As far as anyone knew, he remained a sensible and thrifty man to the end of his life. That belief lasted as long as it took for his daughter to go through his house.
To her amazement, there wasn't a get-rich sucker scheme that he didn't love. He blew tens of thousands on such scams. Worse, he had a computer. You can guess the rest. If it seemed too good to be true, he wanted it.
To add to her worries, at some point in the last decade he simply stopped paying taxes of any kind.
You and I are not trying to defraud anyone. There is no future in it, even if we didn't have scruples. Yet, thanks to the FTC's announcement you and I will be subject to more accusations of fraud every time something doesn't go precisely the way a customer expects.
THAT I object to.
--
"I'm thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said `I drank WHAT?'"
posted on May 2, 2003 04:08:51 PM new
I don't know how I feel about FTC intervention - I do know that eBay has demonstrated to me that it is not willing/able to regulate itself. There is something seriously wrong with a "buyer beware" mentality! For eBay to KNOW that a fraud is being commited through its auctions and operating with its "seal of approval" (the square trade travel verification) and yet state that it is unable to do anything about it is absolutely ammoral. (see the "too good to be true thread" - oops make that "ture"
I, for one, make my livelihood through eBay and I do not want to see the venue compromised. Sales are sluggish enough in these times of economic peril. eBay needs to step up to the plate and police itself or it DESERVES outside intervention!
posted on May 2, 2003 07:24:40 PM new
Sanmar--it was P.T.Barnum that said "There's a sucker born every 60 seconds" W.C.Fields played in a movie called "Never give a Sucker An Even Break" which is quite funny.
posted on May 2, 2003 09:10:38 PM newbut if the FTC were to put some regulations in place
What do you suggest they do, twelvepole?
What if they required that we all get an expensive license to be able to sell our goodies online? What if you wanted to sell that video you've watched a dozen times? (The video with the cross-eyed babe with the implants?) Would you be willing to get your license first and maybe have them do a background check on you before granting you one?
And licenses would never slow down the real scam artists.
posted on May 2, 2003 09:41:08 PM new
My solution would be if you sell over $1500/month then you need to submit to get a license and a criminal investigation...
If you tie your B&M buiness license to your eBay selling id, then you would only need to get the criminal check. All paid for by the potential seller...
That way the small hobby sellers can keep on trucking and the "players" would be certified or be gone...
One other thing, only one seller id period...
Oh, having gone through background checks before, the idea does not bother me... but someone like you I guess it would.
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on May 2, 2003 09:44 PM ]
posted on May 2, 2003 10:02:41 PM new
Someone like me?
Lol, you have spent the past year or so fantasizing about my life so why not build a criminal element into it also? Since I've talked my way out of every possible speeding ticket I could have received do you think that jaywalking ticket I got when I was 20 is still on my record?
BTW, FYI there are some ripoff "hobby sellers" on ebay who have scammed bidders. You think anyone making over $1500 is a player?
How much do "hobby sellers" like you make? And what about the scam bidders? Do they count?
posted on May 2, 2003 10:24:19 PM new
HOOKER? They sell HOOKERS on Ebay? LOL!
I read tyhe first two posts and just skimmed through the rest of the rants. It is not
"sink, line and hooker". In that case, a sink is in the kitchen, a line is something a hooker would say to you. And the hooker is a floozie. Obviuosly, not a fisherman in the whole bunch here!
The expression is to fall for something "hook, line and sinker"! As in a fish swallowing not only the fish hook, but also the fishing line and the lead weight as well (sinker) that causes the bait to sink closer toward the bottom.
posted on May 3, 2003 06:19:07 AM new
I don't know Kiara you seem to have this thing about me watching women... is that a hint or something? Do you fantasize about me in your dreams and wish you could be someone I would watch a dozen times?
I'll put it this way... as a hobby seller, some months I would need the license and some months not... depending on how much time and effort I wanted to spend...
In my case I would require those persons to get the license and background check... if I couldn't afford it... then my selling days are done.
One thing that is funny, so many of you on here want to be compared to Wal-mart, Target, and others that now that the FTC may hold you accountable like those major retailers... you're giving the good 'ol eBay seller whine...
"We are just small time eBay sellers, why bother us?"
I do thank you for bringing this to my attention though and have written the FTC to support them into some regulation of the online selling community, in particular auctions...
I might add that those of you who now scoff at others reporting other sellers... take a good look at what may happen now.
BTW BTW, FYI there are some ripoff "hobby sellers" on ebay who have scammed bidders Typical response from those who wouldn't take responsibility for thier own actions and howl "well others do it"...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on May 3, 2003 06:36 AM ]
posted on May 3, 2003 07:04:53 AM new
Yeah, Patty, a friend of mine (an IBM rep) used to say that. I guess it's IBM humor.
Along with:
My office is so small I have to step outside to change my mind.
--
"It has been my great privilege to be your mother. To you, my dear and faithful son, from earth to heaven I salute you..." Julie McPhillips at the funeral of Marine 1st Lt. Brian McPhillips, killed in Iraq.
posted on May 3, 2003 08:29:13 AM new
Perhaps some are reading different boards but I don't see anyone here that wants to be compared to Walmart, Target and major retailers. They are not the role models that the typical ebay seller wants to be.
For all the years I've been here I have never had the perception that the people that post to these boards don't take responsibility for their actions or that they are out to break rules or scam others.
But I do see some that constantly slam regular sellers and Power Sellers and label them all as scammers, bad sellers, etc. This is very wrong. The majority of sellers I know personally and others I have purchased from are honest Ma and Pa sellers and that includes many or us Power Sellers.
I am honest and I have nothing to hide. twelvepole, it offends me when you do not know me personally or my ebay IDs yet you continue to insinuate that I am scamming and breaking ebay rules and not taking responsibility for my actions. That's why I have doubts about you being a seller because if you were you would never constantly slam your fellow sellers the way you do year after year. If you were a true seller you would identify with some of the problems we encounter.
If the FTC plans to investigate internet fraud they should also take a look at bidders who switch items, damage them, claim they never received them and those that do constant chargebacks on numerous credit cards.
Criminal checks will not stop the dishonest sellers from scamming.
posted on May 3, 2003 08:39:17 AM new
Well believe what you want Kiara, I do sell and that doesn't mean I don't think that there is room for some house cleaning....
If my "insinuations" as you call it, bother you... then it comes from your own mind... I have never once said you were dishonest...
But as the story goes... lie with dogs and you get the fleas too.
I will not identify with sellers that constantly come here and bash buyers, they are after all the only reason to sell...
It just boogles the mind that sellers would balk at having some protections in place so that their buyers will feel "comfortable" buying online.
People will forget 1000 great transactions... the one they get ripped off from, they won't forget...and in most cases will not buy that way again.
As a B&M seller, you must be doing something to keep the buyers coming back... if not you would be out of business, but also there are consumer protection laws in place for "live" transactions.
Oh and the thing about the "buyers" switching and things... you know what, that is the price of doing business, you know as well as I do, losses can be written off...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on May 3, 2003 08:40 AM ]
posted on May 3, 2003 08:45:36 AM new
Why should the so called hobby seller get a free ride and carry on with no criminal check and license? I remember too many threads I read in the past about "hobby sellers" shopping every chance they got at thrift stores, garage sales, and claiming they were cleaning out the attic but all the time running a bigger business than others.
I recall when the fees came in at Paypal and how many whined they were only hobby sellers and they pulled in thousands each month.
If this comes about it will have to be fair and everyone will have to get a license. No more hiding under the BS "I am a hobby seller". It has to be a level playing field for all.
posted on May 3, 2003 09:09:17 AM new
No, I did not miss that point. Some of these hobby sellers were whining but how do you impose a dollar limit when so many sell under different identities? A lot will break it up so it comes under that margin.
That's why I think if you want regulation then its best everyone get a license.
I am convinced the more government legislation there is the costlier it will become and more complex because they have a history of screwing up everything they touch.
Licenses will not stop those with intent to scam as ebay is only a venue.
posted on May 3, 2003 09:17:37 AM new
I am quite sure there will still be scammers... however being licensed and background checked would make it harder and quite possible lead to capture and punishment alot faster.
Twelvepole
Would you be willing to get your license first and maybe have them do a background check on you before granting you one?