posted on June 5, 2003 11:11:53 AM new
Around two weeks ago, I purchased a pair of shoes as a gift for an ill friend that I have been helping.
The ad said actual shipping costs to my zipcode. She later wrote and insurance was $1.75.
I paid for everything, but insurance as soon as I got her total.
She writes after a few days and mentions feedback being important to her and inquiring about the shoes. I told her that I hadn't gotten them yet.
Last night I emailed and asked her for a tracking number.
Seller:Hi (deleted), You haven't got them yet? You did not want Ins. & tracking # on these....
ME: Hello, Tracking is free with priority mail and $.16 for parcel post it has nothing to do with insurance. I expected tracking since paypal requires sellers to use it. That is why I refused insurance.
You charged $9.30 for shipping. Those shoes would have to weigh 5 pounds priority or 6 pounds parcel post for that to be anywhere near shipping to my zipcode with "no extra costs".
I will admit that I am no expert on how much shoes weigh, but I have yet to come accross a pair of platforms in that style that weigh over 3 pounds.
To be honest, I don't have a problem with extra shipping costs. It is only sensible for sellers to add in a little for gas, labels, packaging. etc....I do have a problem with no delivery confirmation number since it is essentially free.
Thank You I also sent her the links to the USPS website free delivery confirmation.
SELLER:Hi there, I have been selling for 3 yrs. & always paid for Tracking. $.55. I'm really sorry! If you thought shipping was to high. I wish you would of said something. I had alot of transactions end that day! And I try & figuire out shipping from the house on a little baby scale. The total to ship was $6.95. A fidderence of $2.45. I can send you the money if you want. I offer Ins. & Tracking on my auctions for $1.70. You did not say anything. I'm really sorry about all this! Please let me know what to do to make it right. Sorry,
Like I said in my email the extra charges did not bother me. I am angry about the lack of tracking number. Am I wrong in thinking paypal requires one? In one sentence she mentions that she always paid for Tracking in another she says that she offered me insurance & tracking for $1.70. Actually she offered me insurance for $1.75 and no mention of tracking.
Before I can respond she sends me another email.
SELLER:Hi (deleted), I went to your feedback. I Lost it! You sell Highheel shoes & charge $9.50 shipping & handling(which I don't charge) & you question my shipping cost? a Honest Mistake! WOW! This is unreal? Sorry about the trouble your having! Wish you would ask questions before paying! & make sure you get the tracking! Sorry it's out of my hands wish I could help!
If it were an honest mistake she would have mentioned it after she shipped and realized she had overcharged. When I shipped UPS I charged $9.50 as shipping UPS is more expensive than priority and I had to purchase boxes. Priority boxes are free.
Thanks to lurking on this board and reading the posts from you guys, I gave endicia a try and have been able to cut my shipping charges to $8.00 a pair. Which still doesn't cover the cost to certain parts of the country. My charges are stated very clearly in my ad however. If by some chance, a pair costs way under my stated charges, I will use the extra for insurance or refund the difference to the buyer in their package.
MY LAST EMAIL TO HER
Yes, I do charge $9.50 when I ship UPS. That includes insurance, Tracking and new shipping boxes and that is still usually under what it costs me to ship.
Shipping to your area, for an average pair of shoes via UPS costs $8.83 and that does not include the .75 I spend for labels and boxes. Total is $9.58 that is less than my cost and my customer would get tracking and $100 insurance.
Your cost with insurance is almost the same via USPS, so don't tell me about charges.
I charge $8.00 when I ship USPS. Regardless of what my charges are they are stated in the auction. People are free not to bid.
As I said you have no excuse since tracking is free with the postal service and required by paypal.
I am pretty new to selling on ebay ( I am selling things for an ill friend), but I buy a lot. I have never had a seller not use some sort of tracking on priority mail. This seller has high feedback.
Am I way off base in being angry about the tracking number? In particular since she did not charge actual shipping and had enough to purchase tracking if she did not want to use the free tracking?
What feedback would you leave?
My post office is looking for the package. I have to go back later today to see if they have found it.
[ edited by itry on Jun 5, 2003 11:13 AM ]
posted on June 5, 2003 11:21:28 AM new
No your aren't off base being upset. I mail everyone of my packages with delivery confirmation whether or not I have to pay for it. There is no excuse for your seller not to put DC on that package. Shipping I don't quibble about if it is within normal but with that amount of shipping that was charged to you insurance could have been put on and they still would have made money. Does he/she have a guarantee? I would keep at them and if you don't find the box they should either resend another pair of shoes or refund....I shouldn't say this but this is what I would do if I didn't cover all my bases.
I would wait with the feedback until you get this resolved and if it doesn't I would wait until the very end and leave a negative due to package lost, seller did not put delivery confirmation on package. This should give a heads up to other bidders..
posted on June 5, 2003 11:24:47 AM new
I would also file with paypal if it doesn't show up. They will ask her for a tracking number and if she can't provide one, I think they will give you you're money back.
posted on June 5, 2003 11:27:48 AM new
Hi itry, you need to click into Paypal and file that Buyer Complaint Form right away. Yes, the seller has to provide a tracking number. There is no excuse for her not to, when she can use Shipping Assistant or get it free online with USPS.
You are in the right. You paid with Paypal. She is obligated to ship according to Paypal's terms.
You are a much more professional seller than she is, the kind of seller that makes purchasing on eBay a real pleasure.
Post back when she responds to your filling out the Buyer Complaint Form.
posted on June 5, 2003 11:43:46 AM new
Actually the DC is NOT for tracking. It will only tell you if it was or wasn't received. Not where it is. And even that is not always the case because some PO's don't scan the package. I encourage my buyers to get insurance and always use DC. If they don't pay for the insurance then they have the loss because I have no control over what happens to the package once it leaves my hands. I agree that this seller could have handled things a little bit better. She seemed to be nicer about it in the beginning, but as you compared your selling style to hers, I noticed the tone changing.
I can see both sides on this. On one hand, you didn't take the insurance and the seller has no control over the postal system. On the other, the seller should have gotten the DC so that you would have proof it was at least mailed and when.
It's been two weeks since being shipped? I just had a parcel post take 4 weeks to get from Ohio to Texas. I'd give it some more time.
Good luck to you on this one and just keep up your good selling techniques.
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 5, 2003 12:48:10 PM new
"As I said you have no excuse since tracking is free with the postal service and required by paypal."
Wrong and wrong.
DC or tracking as you call it is not free, the PO charges me 55 cents - What, you want to make me use Shipping Assistant (WTF is that? a vendio thing?) or go online to get my postage? Where does it say I have to do that? I get my postage and DC at the post office. You want DC or insurance, you pay me for it.
Paypal does NOT require tracking. Oh yes, if you as a seller insist on seller protection you have to use it, but who the hell are you to tell me I need seller protection? Oh wait, if you were my customer I am sure I would need it.
posted on June 5, 2003 01:05:37 PM new
dc is a cheap way for seller to protect herself .
it should be part of the cost of doing business if she accept paypal,of course she does not have to use dc,most items do arrive at destination and i believe most buyers are honest.
posted on June 5, 2003 01:42:22 PM new
I locked on to the sellers statement: I have been selling for 3 yrs. & always paid for Tracking. $.55. That could have been included in the actual cost of shipping--No problem....However....the seller then mentions she offered the tracking for an extra fee. Which is it?
I agree that if the shipping charges were a mistake the seller would have mentioned it before the buyer mentioned it.
DC or tracking as you call it is not free, the PO charges me 55 cents - What, you want to make me use Shipping Assistant (WTF is that? a vendio thing?) or go online to get my postage? Where does it say I have to do that? I get my postage and DC at the post office. You want DC or insurance, you pay me for it.
Shipping assistant is from the postal service and it IS free as is DC when printed with it. It has nothing do with going online to get your postage. You go online to sell and list, so I find it hard to understand your aversion to printing a label online.
She did pay for it and then some. The seller's "actual postage" was enough for insurance, DC and a stick of gum.
Please don't bid on any of my auctions.
After that tirade, I doubt that she or anyone else will be bidding on your auctions.
posted on June 5, 2003 01:50:03 PM new
Good News! My package was at the post office. The seller had written the address in wrong. It had been stamped return to sender and they were going to send it back to her
I am going to email her a scan of the label.
As I said, I did not mind the charges, but DC should have been put on it.
On the other, the seller should have gotten the DC so that you would have proof it was at least mailed and when.
Yes! I refused insurance, so if she mailed it and it didn't arrive that is my problem. I do think she bears the burden of proving she mailed it and the DC would have been proof.
posted on June 5, 2003 02:18:05 PM new
I find no difference in the eDC than the one purchased at the post office. Mine I take from the website and when I take it to the post office they scan it while I am there as if it was purchased at that time. The message on the website is the same for eDC as for the one purchased at the post office.
Great you found your package. I wouldn't leave a bad feedback just because of the reversed address. They would have gotten the package back and they would have had to pay the shipping to resend it. A lot of problems were saved. I know about wrong addresses as I had one but my buyer left a really nice feedback even though he didn't receive his package for a month. Leave feedback, forget about it and move on.
posted on June 5, 2003 02:19:54 PM new
So glad to hear you got your package.
It's so easy to transpose or write down an address wrong. That's why it's so important to double check everything!! Even a wrong zip code will get your item sent back. What kills me is that they take the time to write the correct zip code on the pacakge but send it back anyway.
Good news!
Cheryl
My religion is simple, my religion is kindness.
--Dalai Llama
posted on June 5, 2003 03:02:37 PM new
::I don't know what feedback I will leave... ::
Why is there even a question? You got the product you paid for in a timely manner. Sellers are not required to provide DC, it is in their best interest, but unless you request it or they say they are using it, it is not something you have a right to and certainly not something that should be a deciding factor on feedback.
The only potential problem with the purchase was innocent human error in the address department. If that is the matter at hand when deciding on feedback consider what you would expect and accept one of your buyers to leave for you if you made such an error.
posted on June 5, 2003 03:24:32 PM new
Spot on neon! itry should ignore the emotional part and deal with facts. The parcel arrived safe and sound and in a timely manner = positive feedback!
Cheers,
Adrian
Fill out this form and it will bring up a shipping lable with your FREE delivery confirmation. After taping it to your package you will still need to take your package to the postoffice to pay for the postage.
It works just as well as the delivery confirmation purchased at the postoffice.
For your first class and media mail...just cut off the priority part of the label and tape the rest to your package. You will be charged 13 cents at the postoffice when the scan the label. First class and media mail packages must be 3/4" thick to use delivery confirmation.
Hope this clears things up for you.
[ edited by ewora on Jun 5, 2003 04:07 PM ]
[ edited by ewora on Jun 5, 2003 04:08 PM ]
posted on June 5, 2003 05:07:26 PM new
When I pay with paypal, and if the package did not arrive, I would ask the seller for the tracking number. If they could not provide it, I would then stop dealing with them and then deal with paypal. They aren't required to use it, but they are required if they want to be protected against non delivered packages.
Also, I would also set up a different account for buying and selling. I can not imagine doing any buying on my selling account, why give people the opportunity to see what you are doing? It never ceases to amaze me that so many people do business on ebay with only one account. It definitely gives you the advantage as a buyer in the feedback game, because who should really care on a buying only account if you get a negative from a seller?
posted on June 5, 2003 06:07:13 PM new
It definitely gives you the advantage as a buyer in the feedback game, because who should really care on a buying only account if you get a negative from a seller?
Anybody with integrity! That's who. Why would you conduct your buying in such a manner that you expect negatives. I have a separate account for buying, so that my competeitors won't be able to follow me around and see what I am bidding on. I can tell you I certainly care about negs on my buying ID. Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers,
Adrian
posted on June 5, 2003 06:36:31 PM new
capotasto, it is good business sense to put DC on each and every package you ship, if you use USPS. Unless you are a volume seller with thousands of auctions ending each week, it is silly to pay fifty-five cents at the Post Office for DC when you can get eDC for free for PM, and thirteen cents for First Class and Media Mail. If you ship 100 packages a month, do the math, that is $55.00 in saved fees. Most sellers continue to charge the buyers for DC, making it mandatory, just like insurance, and pocket that fifty-five cents per package. And if you sell on half.com or other web sites, you save yourself a whole ton of grief against potential fraudulent buyers by putting an eDC on every package you send out.
I take my blood pressure reading every day. As you know, they changed the numbers, just like with the blood sugar levels, and now 120/80 is the ceiling for normal, that desired BP levels are below 120/80, and everything above that is getting you into hypertension and eventually an early death from heart disease and strokes. My BP this morning was 115/78. And why? Because I run my business to avoid unpleasantness, and one such way is putting eDC and insurance on every package, thus minimizing the stress associated with potential shipping problems. What is your BP?
posted on June 5, 2003 07:25:34 PM new
ewora, thanks for the helpful link. I will certainly look at that.
My point, however, was that it is up to the seller whether he or she feels the need for protection. I voluntarily use DC on expensive items if the buyer does not pay for insurance (and sometimes I even insure it myself!).
But on cheap items I don't think paying for DC is worthwhile.
Although with free or 13 cent DC I will reconsider...
posted on June 5, 2003 07:47:59 PM new
Hello, I am a good seller and from time to time I get a neg from bottom feeding dirt bag buyers on ebay. I have over 4100 feedback's with 5 negs. 4 negs are from low life non paying bidders. So its not always how a seller runs his or her business. Some of you buyers are too dam dumb to know this.
posted on June 5, 2003 07:53:22 PM new
I hope all buyers care, I don't. Feedback has nothing to do with integrity, especially when you get an undeserved retalitory negative feedback! I've probably made 1500 purchases on ebay in the past 6 years (I collect a lot of things!) and have zero negatives and not even a single neutral as a buyer, all positives. I have zero bid retractions, and I have paid for EVERY single thing I have won. Do I lack integrity because I don't care if someone were to give me a negative on a buying account?
posted on June 5, 2003 08:35:35 PM new
ahc3,
Good for you! I was hoping you meant it that way. I apologise for jumping on you. Unfortunately it came across (to me anyway) like you did not care whether you were a good buyer or not. Of course undeserved feedback has nothing to do integrity, well at least not the recipient's anyway. As I said I misunderstood your comment.
Cheers,
Adrian
posted on June 6, 2003 06:53:08 AM new
itry: "Am I way off base in being angry about the tracking number?"
YES.
itry: "ME: Hello, Tracking is free with priority mail"
shop4shoes: "Shipping assistant is from the postal service and it IS free as is DC when printed with it. It has nothing do with going online to get your postage. You go online to sell and list, so I find it hard to understand your aversion to printing a label online."
Not choosing to run a business using this option is not in my opinion an "aversion". What works for some, does not work for everyone.
libra63: "I mail everyone of my packages with delivery confirmation whether or not I have to pay for it. There is no excuse for your seller not to put DC on that package."
*YOU* choose to put DC on every one of your packages. Did the seller state in her terms that they included DC?
Quite alot of assumptions being made for this seller and alot of others.
I accept Paypal and do not purchase DC unless asked. Since 1998 that has been all of 3 times. In *MY* opinion, DC is a waste of money for a service that I am NOT obligated to purchase just because I accept paypal. Just to note, I find paypal accounts for 70-75% of my payments(since billpoint's removal).
What irritates me the most is, the wasted time that seller had to deal with someone else telling them how to run their business. (of course they wasted their own when they researched and evaluated the buyer in return!)
The overcharge is moot since the buyer stated so. But, even so, the seller wanted to reimburse the difference!
Personally, I see no reason for a neutral or neg. feedback....
posted on June 6, 2003 08:21:30 AM new
Ask here for proof of delivery, such as a receipt from the post office. If she doesn't give you that, you can file a complaint thru paypal if and you will get your money back. When you list a reason, you must say you never received. Paypal will freeze her paypal account until the issue is resolved. Hope that helps
posted on June 6, 2003 09:31:48 AM new
I have a few problems with the seller.
1) She overcharged for the shipping stated in the auction and then tried to get the buyer to pay more for DC. I noticed that she said that she had been selling for 3 years and always paid for DC.
2) She Lost it!, because the buyer (who also sells) has the nerve to charge whatever for shipping in her own auctions.
3) If she is so honest she would have reimbursed the buyer for the overages. Period. No if you want.
4) I don't think she made an honest mistake on the charges. She uses the same scale for other items. I find it hard to believe she hadn't noticed previously the scale is off by about 2 pounds.
The buyer was justified in expecting some proof of shipping. DC or something else. I got the impression that DC is just what the buyer expected as proof of shipping, not necessarily what would have been okay for her.
The buyer has been pretty reasonable. She should not have told the seller that she should have used DC. She should have just said, "I want proof that you mailed it". The buyer admitted that if she had proof of mailing and it was lost then she had no problems with the seller.
posted on June 6, 2003 09:31:55 AM newDid the seller state in her terms that they included DC?
She said actual shipping. That could include DC. I almost never see sellers mention DC in their ads, but they provide it.
The buyer is not off base in being angry about the tracking number. She paid for it and then some. The seller offered to refund the difference AFTER she was busted on her "actual" shipping charges. No mention of her "honest mistake" until that point. She states that she "always" paid for tracking. Why didn't she this time?
Quite alot of assumptions being made for this seller and alot of others.
What assumptions are being made about this seller?
Personally, I see no reason for a neutral or neg. feedback....
The overcharge is moot since the buyer stated so. But, even so, the seller wanted to reimburse the difference!
It is not moot. The buyer is now unhappy and has a legitimate reason for a neg...overcharging on stated shipping.
She deserves a negative. She lied about shipping charges. Has she reimbursed the overcharge yet?
What irritates me the most is, the wasted time that seller had to deal with someone else telling them how to run their business.
The buyer never told her how to run her business. She stated the facts. She was overcharged for shipping and the seller did not provide tracking. It was the SELLER that tried to tell the buyer about the buyer's shipping charges for auctions.
posted on June 6, 2003 09:33:56 AM new
Amy - Do you frequently advice people to commit acts of fraud? Do you have any actual knowledge of that which you speak?
PayPal will not freeze her account, they just put a hold on the disputed amount but since the shoes were indeed recieved it would be fraud to file on this item.
You might want to avoid giving advice on these boards that involves committing illegal acs and screwing over sellers.
[ edited by neonmania on Jun 6, 2003 09:36 AM ]
posted on June 6, 2003 09:28:59 PM new
The auction says actual shipping costs. That means the price of postage. And if you wish to use PayPal, then you need to pay for DC as well. If you want insurance, you need to pay for it too. You didn't pay for it, so you cannot expect it.
posted on June 6, 2003 11:27:05 PM newHas she reimbursed the overcharge yet?
No, she has not. I am sure it is an honest mistake.
The auction says actual shipping costs. That means the price of postage. And if you wish to use PayPal, then you need to pay for DC as well. If you want insurance, you need to pay for it too. You didn't pay for it, so you cannot expect it.
Perhaps you did not read this entire thread.
"Postage" to my zipcode was $6.85. She charged $9.90. I paid for postage, insurance, delivery confirmation and that pack of gum someone mentioned. Yes, I can expect DC or some proof of mailing. She actually says in her description that there are no extra charges besides postage. She nailed me for $3.05 extra and "offered" me insurance for $1.75 more.
Ask here for proof of delivery, such as a receipt from the post office. If she doesn't give you that, you can file a complaint thru paypal if and you will get your money back.
I did get the shoes and I would not file a false claim against someone.
What irritates me the most is, the wasted time that seller had to deal with someone else telling them how to run their business.
What irritates me the most, are people that make baseless statements. She told me how to run my business. I did not tell her how to do anything except what was stated in the ad. Use what she charged me for postage for that purpose. DC certainly falls under postage. Notice she says that she always pays for DC.
ADDED:
I have an id that is just for buying. I have nearly 900 positives and no negatives on it. It has never occured to me not to buy with my selling id also. I pay promptly and I have never had a problem with a seller.
Thanks for all of the input. I think I will go back to lurking now.
