posted on June 25, 2003 07:20:12 AM new
E bay, You really need to fix this hole in the boat. You put us sellers through 20 days of grief, filing a NON PAYING BIDDER process, only to end up getting a NEG for our efforts to re coup some of our money and upsetting a non payer.
NPB's, Nothing transpired. No exchange of GOODS, SERVICES or MONEY took place. Their is NO reason for a NPB to have any rights to post negative feed back lies on our feed back.
Once the final step is completed they need to be treated as such. Automatically blocked from posting anything.
This can be as simple as placing another button right next to the block bidder feature which already exist upon final completion of the refund. Actually that same button should and can serve those two functions. Block bidder and block feed back. click! Problem solved.
posted on June 25, 2003 07:38:38 AM new
Maybe I am wrong but I didn't think feedback could be left if you file and receive your fees back. Doesn't the feedback function end when the auction ends and that is at the time you file and receive you funds.
posted on June 25, 2003 07:41:14 AM new
Go Jack go.
While your at it, can you get them to fix the thing with the hidden font? If I put in search for my city, it brings up 90 pages of crapolla? 4457 items? And I live in a very small town, so I don't think so.
Power sellers are the worst it seems and everybody else copies them. Or is this "ok" now to do?
posted on June 25, 2003 07:45:25 AM new
I forgot one thing. If you send the 3 day notice from ebay and I know thats a little fast but then if your buyer doesn't pay you can file right away instead of waiting all that time. I know that there 3 day notice is a start to the NPB but it speeds up the process if you never hear from the buyer. I think giving buyers a 3 day notice is plenty. At least they can give you the courtesy of answering your WBN and if they don't they deserve that 3 day notice.
I hate it when snipers snipe your auction and then you never hear from them.
posted on June 25, 2003 07:59:28 AM new
I couldn't agree more with Jack...This is the ONE big glaring problem with feedback which could and should be easily fixed...NPB's IMHO forfeit feedback privileges when they don't pay for an auction. When FVF is filed, any feedback (positive or negative) should NOT be permitted by the buyer for that transaction. This seems so obvious to me and I just can't understand why eBay doesn't see it the same way. NPB's are the scum of the earth. Is my bias showing?
posted on June 25, 2003 08:01:30 AM new
I think the feedback system is messed up too. I get real nervous after giving someone neg feedback because I fear they will turn around and give me neg feedback in return.
When we have to jump thru the hoops and file the proper forms to get our final value fees back- I also feel we should get our listing fees back- and than Ebay should charge the non paying bidder or go after them for that money they cost us in fees.
I mean don't the bidders have to file a good credit with Ebay even to buy--they can charge that. Some people say- Oh it is only a few cents here and there- but really it adds up if you have a lot of non paying bidders.
I know a seller(not me)that has in her TOS USA only and a Canadian did a buy it now purchase, well the seller refunded the Canadians money and told her USA only. The Canadian gave the seller a negative feedback.--isn't that just peachy!
[ edited by nharmon on Jun 25, 2003 08:07 AM ]
posted on June 25, 2003 08:20:23 AM new
What I do is automatically submit the non-paying bidder alert on day 7 or at
the very latest on the 10th day from the auctions closing date. If they don't pay,
I post the negative feedback FIRST and right after that I submit my final credit value fee with eBay. I do not reverse
final value fees. I've read every excuse
in the book for not paying and have
kicked off many non-payers.
I have yet to receive neutral or negative feedback from a non-paying bidder.
These non-payers re-register under a different free email account and new (different) User ID. Ebay makes it far too
easy for these deadbeats to start all over again with a clean slate.
posted on June 25, 2003 08:21:17 AM new
Libra, Calm? Me? I am FURIOUS!!!!!! hahahaha. That piece of scum strung me out for a month! Once the scum got the final notice he goes to feed back and calls me a liar and a theif! IN ALL CAPS!!!!! SAYS HE SENT MONEY ORDER AND I RIPPED HIM OFF.
Of course with all my fighting effort to quell this b.s. I respond with, post the MONEY ORDER number so we can all track it! He has none!
I have hundreds of what the idiot bought? why would I take his money and not send anything?
Oh! by the way, I just got my power seller wings back. hahahaha, la de da. It's no bodies business how much I make in a month and that's all that powerseller emblem means. I did'nt respond except to tell ebay they have spelling errors in their e mail which makes it look like it may be a spoof! They have STILL not corrected the errors. hardwork is not a word that I am aware of. entruepenuer is also misspelled.
posted on June 25, 2003 08:33:49 AM new
There is one real problem with this scheme, and that is that it leaves honest buyers far more exposed than sellers are now.
Imagine this scenario: Seller builds up a decent appearing feedback record, puts a bunch of expensive stuff up in a weekend specifying money order only, takes bids, gets paid, and never ships.
We've all heard that story a billion times. But the twist that this new measure would provide is that the seller could keep those ripped-off bidders from warning people by immediately filing NPB and negs on all of them.
The bidders lose their money. They never get their stuff. They get a NPB strike. They may or may not be able to get some justice for this, but only if they go through considerable effort and expense to track the MO and prove it was cashed. And if they couldn't leave feedback, they wouldn't even be able to warn other bidders.
Once the buyer sends the money (and most do), the seller is 100 percent in control of the transaction. The only recourse a bidder has, from that point on, is negative feedback or in rare cases, a chargeback. There's no easy way to sort out who paid and who didn't except on a seller's say-so.
-------------------
We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
[ edited by msincognito on Jun 25, 2003 08:34 AM ]
posted on June 25, 2003 08:39:52 AM newMaybe I am wrong but I didn't think feedback could be left if you file and receive your fees back. Doesn't the feedback function end when the auction ends and that is at the time you file and receive you funds.
You gotta be kiding.
Why not have ebay leave a bold notation in the feedback record of the NPB that says a completed NPB has been filed against this ebayer. A Scarlet Letter of sorts. And why the heck not refund the insertion fee? Is ebay that cheap?
posted on June 25, 2003 08:53:01 AM new
msincognito,
The deadbeat buyer problem is a lot bigger, and much more frequent that the scenario you describe. Yes, it does happen, but how common is it really? If I was one of those buyers, feedback would be the last thing on my mind. I would be contacting the police, the post office, and anyone else I could file a criminal complaint with. (I also don't bid on money order auctions only, but that is a personal choice, I think people are stupid if they do, esp. for a larger ticket item) - I agree with Jack, deadbeat bidders being able to give you negatives that stick are the biggest weakness of feedback. There are a LOT of sellers who won't give negative feedback to deadbeats (myself included) because they don't want unnecessary negatives....
posted on June 25, 2003 09:08:57 AM new
I also agree with Jack on this one. Retaliatory negs by non-paying bidders is a very serious problem and enough of them can ruin any good seller's record.
eBay has an appeal process for non-paying bidders so it would protect them from situations such as msincognito has shown.
How to Appeal a Warning or Suspension
eBay requires proof of payment or proof that the seller excused you from your obligation in order to remove a non-paying bidder/buyer infraction. Please review the different types of proof you can provide and the various ways you can contact us. Note that just providing an explanation to each infraction may delay review of your account.
If they can't provide proof they paid then they are blocked from leaving feedback.
And AuctionAce has a good idea. eBay should put the big red letters there. While they are at it, put the number of NPBs in the feedback box also.
posted on June 25, 2003 09:53:42 AM new
Now does anyone have any idea where to send this situation directly to ebay where there is SOME kind of communications with them. Use to be powerseller@ebay but they decided that was far to easy to reach them. They, Retired? that page.
posted on June 25, 2003 10:17:55 AM new
It is not in ebay's best interest for us to file NPB reports since it forces them to return a portion of the fees we pay to them. They know as well as we do that a reported NPB is more likely to file a neg or neutral against a seller, thus scaring some sellers from NOT filing the NPB report. The end result is more fees for ebay, whether or not a sale was complete.
I personally start the NPB process exactly 7 days from the time an auction ended if I have not had contact from a buyer. 90% of the time this scares buyers into compliance w/terms of the sale.
posted on June 25, 2003 11:21:18 AM new
Respectfully (becuase the two people who responded are both posters whose opinions I value highly) I have to disagree. The NPB situation may be more common, just as shoplifting is far more common than grand theft auto, but the potential harm to the victim is far greater when it's the seller that goes bad.
In a NPB situation, a seller has lost 1) the immediate opportunity to sell his or her item and 2) the listing, auction/picture hosting and other associated fees. Most people would not term that a "ripoff" but rather a "breached contract."
But in a "deadbeat seller" situation where the bidder has paid and no goods are shipped, the buyer loses all the money they paid (final bid plus S/H), they have no item and the seller gets their FVF back. If they didn't have at least the opportunity to leave feedback, bad sellers could continue to rip buyers off for months while the investigation dragged on. If those crooks knew they could block bidders from leaving feedback, I suspect the incidence of fraud would climb even more quickly.
I think there might be a compromise that would work, however: Once a bidder is NARUd, the feedback they left for those sellers who filed NPB on them goes away. That would do two things. First, it would give legitimate sellers an additional incentive to go through the NARU process (apart from reclaiming FVF.) At the same time, it would protect legitimate bidders who fall into the clutches of one bad seller.
------------------- We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
posted on June 25, 2003 11:47:59 AM new
misincognito, I like the compromise.
Odds are they NPB once they will do it again. My exact sit. above. If the other two that were stiffed like me had of filed,,poof #3 gone. NARUed.
I have at least 3-5 Narued on my account. E bay what sense does it make to keep those negs on us. They were obviously flakes! E bay YOU got rid of THEM But WE, the ones who foot the bill are STUCK with them,,,,,,FOREVER!!!
Millions of us who are honest hard working and making YOU e bay, money. Don't you want us racking you up those final value fees?
If buyers see a bunch of negs on a seller they may not buy. And if they are from no longer registered users, who even you e bay got rid of because of the financial burdens. Why Oh Why do we sellers need to continue to suffer because of the SAME FLAKES YOU got rid of?
posted on June 25, 2003 11:53:58 AM new
Actually, they're likely to do it to multiple sellers at once. If all of them file NPB timely, that joker's gone in no time flat and poof! go their feedbacks. (Maybe, to be fair, you could say "all negatives left on transactions after the first NPB."
Of course, there's nothing to stop them from reincarnating but that won't change anything else in this equation.
-------------------
We do not see things as they are. We see them as we are.
------------The Talmud
[ edited by msincognito on Jun 25, 2003 11:56 AM ]
posted on June 25, 2003 12:44:39 PM new
I was upset when the old rule about NARUed no longer having all of their feedbacks converted to neutral feedbacks was changed to let all feedback stay as they are.
I figured out why they probably changed it. A bunch of whinners wrote in and complained about losing a few positive feedbacks.
posted on June 25, 2003 12:56:01 PM new
I can't agree MORE!!! I am scared to file NPB and I have a lot with the volume I do and the small amount of each sale but it irks me that they keep getting away with it. Ebay is flawed in a lot of ways but this is a biggie!!!
posted on June 25, 2003 02:02:14 PM new
Ebay really needs to step back and take a look at this picture.
We the sellers are where they get their income from.
But if we get the screws put to us do they care?
NO!
The NPB cost us the listing fee,they held up our sale of the item for as much as a month,and them on top of it all the NPB'er has the right to bad mouth us, as if we did something wrong!
Does Ebay agree they did something wrong? YES, or they would never give us to FVF back!
If they put the screws to Ebay 3 times they boot them no questions asked!
But does Ebay rectify the damage they did to us? NO!
posted on June 25, 2003 06:41:54 PM new
We sellers drag that deadwood around our necks and e bay throws that deadwood on the side of the road and drives off without a care. Something is amiss here. E bay! Do you have any scrupples at ALL?
I bet! There are at least!,,,,20k, (hahahaha, are you kidding? Jack. More many more than that! Just a figure.) deals that go South every month. I was gonna do some math then thought,,,,No. The figures I am sure are much more staggering. Shoot! Just little ole nobody me had 6 npb's this month. Times 500,000 people which is a,,,,,,drop in the bucket BUT e bay,,,,,,,it adds up!!!!! Big time money YOU are losing! .50 cents x's whatever.
Ramblin' on but makin' cents. That turn into DOLLARS!!!!!
