neroter12
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posted on July 23, 2003 11:00:48 AM new
What percentage of auctions are shill bid on that don't get caught? Do newbies do it more than oldbies?? Is it a taboo subject among sellers in the know?
Wondering as with sales as slow as they are, appears something's not right in wonderland....
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toasted36
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posted on July 23, 2003 11:07:51 AM new
I think some sellers do (not all)but I've also noticed some people don't bid till someone else does...it's like they're not sure it's worth what your asking unless someone else wants it...then they have a bid war.
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neroter12
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posted on July 23, 2003 11:47:54 AM new
Toasted,
Thanks for your reply and opinion. Its funny cause I havent been buying much and my sister asked me to find something for her, so went looking and also found something that interested me along the way...but anyway, noticed twice outbid by newbie with 0 or 1-2 rating when there are 4-5 same items listed with no bids @ the same or comperable price.
I am sure bids attract more bids...I almost know it from my own browsing experience..but and I cant explain this at all -- it just feels like a shill bid ? - by a bogus account. The timing or something.....totally irrational; but a gut instinct.
If one could use software that hides their identity and location, whats to stop anyone from doing it? I surmize many sellers look at it like most people do padding deductions on taxes. You know, not "really" illegal, just cutting corners, or finding loop holes.
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toasted36
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posted on July 23, 2003 11:58:13 AM new
Also when it comes to buying.I always look ,bookmark and bid at the last min.No need to run the bid up higher lol yes I'm cheap ! If the bookmarked item goes higher than I'm willing to pay...I just delete it and look for another.On you zero or 1 feedbacks ,Check and see if they have bid on other items...or just on that sellers items .I would think something was up then.
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Libra63
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posted on July 23, 2003 12:28:00 PM new
Bids attract other bidders. i.e. I put a tie on and received a bid right away, within a half hour after listing. Within the hour there are 3 more bids on it. Look at your hits and see how many you have if there are many you know sniping is going to happen. This means the person sniping doesn't want anyone to know they are going to bid as they know bids are like magnets they attract.
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AuctionAce
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posted on July 23, 2003 12:40:27 PM new
As a seller have you ever had a nice item and then saw the bids go way up and a zero feedback bidder is on top? I say to myself that the bidders or lookers are going to suspect a shill and stop bidding. Many newbies bid like crazy and do not research the thing they are bidding on. Many of these deadbeat on the thing they win and pay too much for.
Shilling is very difficult because now you're looking at a FVF and a lost shot at relisting the auction for free if it sells the second time, not to mention the chance that ebay may catch you. A buyer can spot most clumsy shill attempts by looking at what the shill is bidding on or has bid on it the past.
Some shill bidding is done by new sellers that do not know they can end and auction early because they have set the starting bid too low and they do not want to loose that auction good to a low price.
Shilling bidding is getting rarer as so many items now end with either no bids or just one bid.
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"Any man worth his salt will stick up for what he believes right, but it takes a slightly better man to acknowledge instantly and without reservation that he is in error."
- Andrew Jackson
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neroter12
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posted on July 23, 2003 04:42:34 PM new
Yes thanks. That is alot of points to consider also.
Tessa 
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neroter12
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posted on July 23, 2003 09:35:48 PM new
Ace,
But what about sellers who shill after the 1st bid - gambling on the fact that the buyer really wants the item and will return to bid again?
Arent the odds the buyer will rebid, at least one more time? So then the seller doesnt lose the fvf and listing fees after all. And if the bidder doesnt bite again then offer the 2nd chance? I would think swallowing the listing and the fvf still would seem more profitable than totally underselling the item.
toast - thats not cheap, its smart shopping.
[ edited by neroter12 on Jul 23, 2003 09:41 PM ]
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AuctionAce
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posted on July 23, 2003 10:25:19 PM new
Tessa ( Contessa the famous Flamingo Dancer? ) ....
You're right, I never thought about the Second Chance Offer gambit. The problem with 2nd Chance Offers is that few buyers take the offer. I really believe a lot of bidders it is a trick or something.
There is a sales slump at ebay these days and most sellers are blaming the slow summer cycle and/or economy but I feel it is the beginning of the end for decent selling at ebay. Something in the mystical equation of buyers / sellers / number of listings / average price realized / etc. has hit the apex and there is no way but down from here on out. Just a feeling I have.
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"Any man worth his salt will stick up for what he believes right, but it takes a slightly better man to acknowledge instantly and without reservation that he is in error."
- Andrew Jackson
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davebraun
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posted on July 23, 2003 10:41:33 PM new
The frightening thing as a seller is seeing a bidding way between 2 newbies. I always feel I'll never get paid if they reach new heights.
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 24, 2003 04:39:55 AM new
I think shill bidding is the norm in some categories.... such as computers.
Watch a few of those auctions...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
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potterdj
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posted on July 24, 2003 08:22:49 AM new
[ edited by potterdj on Jul 24, 2003 09:22 AM ]
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neroter12
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posted on July 24, 2003 08:23:31 AM new
Ace,
I do value your thoughts because I know you've been around ebay awhile. (Can tell by things you post you know what you are talking about.)
I agree with you about the "glut" and thats why I started thinking about shill bidding -wondering how sellers are surviving it.
Twelve,
I dont browse the computer catagory much, but think it goes on in ebay motors big time. I was looking for a 2nd hand car, and saw this local seller had a few semi-decent(looking anyway)cars with NR. I emailed about coming to see one, and I said btw, are you really going to sell all these at NR? He replied yes that everybody had a fair chance them. (so okay, maybe has inventory to move) but a few days later back to my bookmarks and his auctions were gone. I wonder if I scared him -- maybe he thought I was ebay playing dumb?
Oh Well, Chalk it up to 'another' strange happening on ebay. :-0
lol Ace, just tessa
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neroter12
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posted on July 24, 2003 08:35:28 AM new
Yeah Dave, its funny to watch them get all caught up in it! (Buyers do seem to get broken in that way!) Then you do wonder if you will ever get your money after the manic triumph of winning goes away!
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