posted on September 4, 2003 06:52:38 PM new
Thanks to all that answered my post on another thread.
I thought I would start a new one & not continue to hijack seyms post.
I apologize seyms.
Here is the story as posted on PayPalsucks.com by my friend with the problem. It might be easier to understand knowing the story first hand.
Any help or suggestions will be appreciated & I will direct him to this board to read your replies.
.............................................
Long Story Short
Got contacted from a guy who was bidding on my auction to cut a deal. (Yes stupid-- do not yell) usually I’m pretty smart about these things. I checked his feedback =100% been on EBay since 1997. Took the email he contacted me from and put it in the bidders search = it matched his account.
Of course I was still hesitant… didn’t give him an answer. For the next few days he contacted me again, I replied which lead to two days of haggling through emails. I agreed to end the auction early (again, no need to tell me how stupid that is) but if half of you were in the similar situation you would think the dealings were legit so don’t give me any grief.
Anyway, we agreed to meet on IM (which matched his hotmail, which matched his eBay account---fine) We dealt (I documented every step of this transaction) it had to do with Domain names, so he agreed to pay via (guess who) Paypal. Well… I waited till the money was in my account and immediately started the transfer to my Bank account. Then I began transferring the domains from My godaddy.com account to his (which needs you to input his personal information like name address phone –ALL of which matched his EBay info which matched the email which matched the instant messenger which matched the VERIFIED Paypal account I JUST got money from!)
So the deal goes down $950, he got the domains in his account and I got the money. Thank you and goodbye.
Well 2 weeks later I was checking my Paypal account to see if another bidder had put money in for an auction and guess what I see…Yep negative -$922.00 in my account!
No warning, no email, no nothing from Paypal. I contacted them via webform and got this response:
“Thank you for contacting Paypal. I do apologize for the situation. The reversal was doe as the funds were deemed to be sent to you without the authorization of the
owner of the funding source. Please refer to the email that was sent to you on 8/11”
I NEVER GOT an email on 8/11, nor did I ever get a phone call, or even a friggin CARRIER PIDGEON with a note on its leg stating ANYTHING from Paypal!!!
I called them and asked them to explain this. Basically (and with a complete attitude LIKE I WAS THE CROOK) they said…the BUYER stated that their account was hacked and the funds were not legitimately authorized.
B.S.!!! AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED This is the guy I was dealing with, if his account was truly hacked (which I doubt since I dealt with him on several AVENUES of communication) then it is STILL his responsibility and a well documented ITEM (though intangible) was transacted in his name and his address with his identity.
My Question are these:
1. LEGALLY, Should the buyer be responsible for a situation like this?
2. Should I pay the negative balance?
3. If I do not (I have great credit), is this going to affect me if I DON’T PAY the scammers at PAYPAL?
4. How can Paypal get away with this crap?
I see so many answers to these questions in the forum, mostly conflicting… if anyone is well past the 90 day time and has gone into collections I would love to hear how you are making out..
posted on September 4, 2003 07:06:51 PM new
when did it happen??dont forget paypal has come a long way to prevent fraud.
paypal has ways to find out if the account was hacked,if the IP address shows it is coming from russia and the owner is calling or emailing from arizona.usually like cockroach,there are more than one case of russian crime.
if your friend has a deficit of 922 in his account,then any payment made to this account will be used to net against this deficit.if he uses a different account and they find out,they will restrict that account.
so basically he is #*!@ out of luck with paypal,unless he figures he never need paypal anymore,else he is better off to return the money to paypal and chalk it up to experience.
i dontknow if 922 is a big enough amount that paypal will send out legal papers.
i know for this guy who sells e gold shares,he was taken to court in ca.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
posted on September 4, 2003 07:24:49 PM new
It happened about two weeks ago, maybe three at the most.
Can PayPal turn him into a collection agency, he feels he has to return the money to prevent this.
I'm not sure if they can do this, he did nothing wrong. I think Paypal is in the wrong for buying the buyers story about hacking.
So how the heck can the buyer get away with saying his account was hacked when it wasn't.
posted on September 4, 2003 07:34:07 PM new
paypal will not disclose to you or your friend how they detect fraud,i know they do work with FBI on some cases.
i know they have a list of countries which are not allowed to access paypal accounts,if you go to one of those countries say quatar and try to log on to your account,you will have your paypal account locked up.
in your friend case,paypal is no different than one's merchant account provider,your business transaction turned sour,so cough up the money.
this is no different than depositing a bad check,do you expect bank to honor the check and let you keep the deposit??
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
posted on September 4, 2003 09:00:27 PM new
Well then the seller should play the buyers game & go to where he bought the domains & say he never turned them over to anyone, he was hacked.
What a mess & no way out, so far.
How about Damon, know where he is or do you know his email address.
Never hurts to try.
posted on September 4, 2003 09:16:43 PM new
Since they have the name and address check yahoo's white pages to see if he is in there. Unless he is foreign and you don't mention that. Well seems like a mess to me.
posted on September 4, 2003 09:19:17 PM newWell then the seller should play the buyers game & go to where he bought the domains & say he never turned them over to anyone, he was hacked.
I think that would be a good idea or else file fraud charges against them with the FBI. (or maybe both)
There are links at ebay for fraud forms.
posted on September 5, 2003 04:52:45 AM new
if the buyer has all these domain names,what is he planning to do with them??
resell it??
he has to pay fees to keep these names ,find out who is in charge of all thee domain names and see what they have to say.
posted on September 5, 2003 09:42:46 AM new
Anytime I am dealing with a higher priced auction, or just have a “gut level feeling” about a transaction, I do as you did, but I also go to one of the on line, criss-cross (reverse) directories and check and compare information via this site with what I have been given by the buyer. I use this link:
Since we have a Merchant’s Account, we actually get more direct credit card payments than we do PayPal. Regardless of information given, and my private checking, and an approval number by our credit card machine, I occasionally call our credit card processor to double check, and they send me a fax with a second approval.
It is sad we all have to be detectives to do business, but it isn’t just the internet, it could and does happen in face to face credit card dealings.
posted on September 5, 2003 02:30:22 PM newdomain names
When it comes to paypal the seller has to ship real goods that can be tracked....ie D.C. or tracking number.
I think that this is the crux of the problem right there. If the seller is selling something like domain names where there is no shipping only a transfer via the internet[ email] then they leave themselves wide open to be taken.
So the deal goes down $950, he got the domains in his account and I got the money. Thank you and goodbye.
For $950.00 there is no way I would ever take a P.P. payment as you are not covered. It tells you this under P.P. user terms.
posted on September 5, 2003 04:33:54 PM new
Here is the email from the person who's PP account was hacked:
I got this letter this morning from (THE REAL?) Don
D.
Dear Mr. A,
The payment was cancelled because it was
unauthorized. I made
the
mistake of using this old email address as my user ID
for both Ebay and
PayPal and neglected to update the passwords.
Needless to say, someone
gained access to my three internet accounts and took
advantage of me
and
other individuals including yourself. PayPal abruptly
limited my
account
access and brought these fraudulent transactions to my
attention. A
report
of this identity theft has already been made with my
local sheriff's
dept.,
an affidavit has been filed with PayPal
Investigations, and Ebay has
already
been notified of this incident, w/my report and any
specific
information
they requested already filed. You may contact PayPal
or Ebay to verify
this. I have already taken the necessary actions to
prevent this from
happening to me again. Please do the same.
posted on September 5, 2003 04:58:47 PM new
my friend,
just chalk it up as business loss and move on.
you listed the items on ebay and yet you sell outside ebay,and the dialogue was carried on thru instant messaging.
it is not tangible property and yet you accepted payment via paypal.
if you wonder if paypal will come after you for the 922 deficit,ask paypal damon,i heard he is now on ebay board.
posted on September 5, 2003 05:35:05 PM new
The person who's account was hacked is going to help to get the domains back. Only three are important.
The money will be returned to PayPal
Thanks stopwhining & all who helped with their replies.
Here is the info on the hacker, don't know if he was clever or stupid.
.............................................
Jane,
This is the "BUYERS" REGISTRANT information from
WHOIS.NET
