posted on September 24, 2003 07:58:41 PM new
I've been mulling over the feedback thing. I know *something* needs to be done about it, but I don't think banning NPBs from leaving feedback is the answer for a variety of reasons, which I've posted in another thread.
What if any negative feedback you have from a "no longer registered user" were to disappear? I know a lot of these retaliatories end up being from people who eventually do themselves in, so what if that finally happens and they go away and poof, so does that feedback? Why does ebay keep feedback from people who are suspended from ebay anyway? They used to convert positives to neutrals, so why not convert negs to neutrals or zap them completely?
I'm open to thoughts on this, wondering what, if any, disadvantages there would be. Of course, all of this is just us talking about it. Not like ebay is showing any signs of fixing anything.
posted on September 24, 2003 08:11:33 PM new
Deana, sounds pretty good to me.
___________________________________
"Practically speaking, a life that is vowed to simplicity, appropriate boldness, good humour, gratitude, unstinting work and play, and lots of walking, brings us close to the actually existing world and its wholeness." --Gary Snyder
posted on September 24, 2003 08:24:48 PM new
The only problem I can see is that a very large percentage of suspensions are very temporary and for very minor reasons such as stale contact info, expired credit card or Ebay mistake (it happens more often than you think). The negs that these otherwise good buyers and sellers have left warning the rest of the community would also disappear. Ebay's own rules state that all feeback must be transaction related. In the case of a NPB, no transaction was completed and neither party, including the seller, should be allowed to leave feedback.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on September 24, 2003 08:48:32 PM new
sparkz,
But what if you only pulled the feedback from people who were suspended permanently for NPB? Not any other reason, just that one. Those are the idiots we're having problems with.
I have a lot of problems with the no feedback from NPBs because I think it's a loophole for fraud, and I think there are people who will get screwed because of it. Someone who has an NPB filed on them once, and it's truly not their fault (fraudulant sellers, and there really are other situations where the buyer should be in the right but they still get an NPB filed on them). I also think that there is no way on God's green earth that ebay is going to put themselves in the position of taking sides.
However. If a person gets yanked from ebay from having three separate NPBs filed on them, it then becomes pretty clear who the problem child is. Then, any negative feedback they've left should be converted or removed.
posted on September 24, 2003 08:49:19 PM new
That sounds logical, except who is going to pay for the listing fees wasted by NPBs? If a NPB is filed for, and final value fees are refunded, then I feel that the NPB has lost any right to leave feedback. As for the seller, I still feel that feedback should be available; however, how about an automated negative (or perhaps neutral) feedback left, by eBay, that simply stated "Non-paying Bidder"?
Thoughts?
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
posted on September 24, 2003 08:59:12 PM new
Okay..here's the problem with no feedback for NPBs.
A fraudulant seller can file on people before they have a chance to leave feedback. Yes, ebay is going to catch on soon enough, but not soon enough to warn potential other bidders that this is a fishy deal.
A good example from another board: A guy bought a widget from someone. That person mis-addressed the package. It got returned to him, so he wanted the buyer to pay him shipping *again* to send it. The seller filed the NPB and there was nothing the bidder could do about it. If we had no feedback for people who had NPBs filed on them, this buyer couldn't say a word about this crap. Ebay is NOT going to mess with this kind of he said/she said stuff. I know we, as sellers, are getting screwed here, but it DOES go the other way, too.
One more..a seller thinks, "gee, that cup *does* have a chip, but I made a chunk of money on it! I know, I'll just file an NPB and they won't be able to say anything about it anyway. It's my word against theirs." Think ebay is going to get in the middle of that?
Any loophole you provide will always be taken advantage of by someone, no matter what. And the bottom line is that ebay will never, ever put themselves in a mediator type of position. They'd loose too much money.
posted on September 24, 2003 09:10:02 PM new
Koto1...I suggested the administrative neg by Ebay for NPB's some time back, and I still think it's a great idea. After all the FVF they refund is usually more than the listing fees the seller eats. In essence, Ebay is usually the biggest loser when it comes to NPB's so they should leave the neg.
I agree, if ebay doesn't see fit to block all parties in an incomplete transaction from leaving feedback, then any negs left by a deadbeat should be removed when they are suspended. Ideally, if sellers would file FVF on every deadbeat, they would not be able to leave more than 3 negs to begin with. Looking at it from Ebay's point of view, more sellers would be filing for FVF if it will help them get a neg removed, which would cost Ebay more money in refunds. I'm not sure they would be too warm to that idea, but it's certainly worth floating by them.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on September 25, 2003 11:57:24 AM new
The first ebay feedback system was anyone registered on ebay could leave anyone else registerd on ebay a feedback. Friends helped friends build up feedbacks and other feedback abuse abounded. The next feedback innovation was the transaction related only feedback. That cut down on a lot of abuse. Then ebay dropped the policy of converting all feedbacks left by a NARUed to neutrals. It may have been for a variey of reasons such as to great a task for the ebay servers to handle or ebayers hated seeing neutrals on their feeback record where positives once stood, etc.
The only solution that I can see is if once an final NPB credit is filed that neither side can leave a feedback on that transaction.
-------------- sig file ----------- Most costume jewelry is unsigned. After all, the vast majority of it was made to be worn a few times, then discarded. It wasn't made to be durable. --- The Fluffster
posted on September 25, 2003 01:34:48 PM new
I have an even more annoying one in my feedback file.
Apparently the user asked to have his account deleted in it's entirety. So there is no username next to the feedback comment, simply the statement "Not a Registered User" So you cant view his feedback page which you can do with most NARU's
posted on September 25, 2003 03:42:03 PM new
We would like to see a FAIR feedback system. I have been selling on Ebay for 6 years and have watched people come up with good ideas about a new system. The bottom line is Ebay does not give a rats behind about their sellers and will not change a thing. SORRY
Today we are making two policy changes aimed at strengthening the Feedback system and ensuring it remains an accurate measure of an eBay member's reputation.
The first change involves our Feedback Solicitation policy, which prohibits members from increasing their feedback by attempting to buy or sell feedback itself. Beginning immediately, the term “feedback” may no longer be included in a listing title unless it specifically describes the item listed.
We are also adding a new policy that will prohibit sellers from including in their listings any terms and conditions that restrict or limit the ability of a member to leave feedback.
Regards,
eBay
-------------- sig file ----------- Most costume jewelry is unsigned. After all, the vast majority of it was made to be worn a few times, then discarded. It wasn't made to be durable. --- The Fluffster
Sniping works up a thirst"