eagleinc
|
posted on November 13, 2003 02:36:11 PM new
Where do I start the process? Unknowingly I have paid for two items from a now closed company with Paypal using my credit card. Paypal charged my credit card November 8. The company I bought the two items from closed their doors on Nov 7 or 8th. I hoped this week that the items might show up but no such luck. I've talked to someone who had direct contact with their management and word is doors are locked tight, company will be liquidated. So...where do I go from here? Can I file with paypal for non-delivery? how long do I have to wait? Can I talk to credit card company and put it in dispute or will that mean my days of using paypal are numbered? Or do I just suck it up and eat the $400? Any advice is appreciated
|
stopwhining
|
posted on November 13, 2003 02:44:58 PM new
dont wait,file your paypal complaint now.
paypal will start the investigation and ask for dc and signature receipt.
but then i wonder if this company still have any money left in their paypal account??
if not,you will hear from paypal saying sorry,they aint got no money we can return to you.
then you have no choice but file chargeback with your cc issuer and hit paypal /
i dont know if this is going to hurt your relationship with paypal.
someone else may shed some light on this.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
Libra63
|
posted on November 13, 2003 04:17:27 PM new
This is an interesting topic. If they used a cc can't they just file with the cc company? Since PayPal is only a middle man how can it hurt this buyers PayPal account?
|
stopwhining
|
posted on November 13, 2003 04:23:11 PM new
since paypal is the middleman,any chargeback unrecoverable from the seller will cost paypal,in this case 400 dollars .
so paypal may turn around and slap that 400 dollars in buyer account.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
pointy
|
posted on November 13, 2003 05:19:30 PM new
I would think that you'll get further more informed answers, but it's my thought that you can file for chargeback through your cc company. This is something that I believe Paypal "discourages", and your future relationship with Paypal will be affected in some way. The bottom line is that you can get your money back, one way or another. The only potential scenario as I see it where you may lose your money is if the credit card you used has some restrictions on chargebacks as to proximity of purchase.
|
stormypetr
|
posted on November 14, 2003 08:32:24 AM new
I have gone through this before. File a complaint with Paypal. The company has probably liquidated it's Paypal accounts so you will soon get an email that says something to the effect of "we agree the seller is at fault but since they don't have any money in their account, we can't refund your money". Once you get that email, you can file a chargeback with your credit card company. Paypal will not close your account if you allow them to investigate it first. If they do close your account (as they did mine) just contact Damon and he will have the account re-opened (as he did mine).
|
rustygumbo
|
posted on November 15, 2003 11:01:09 AM new
Paypal is a great service when it works for both the seller and buyer, but by no means will it ever be perfect. Paypal will always do what they can to cover their butts. Jump through the PP hoops, so you can get the PP email stating the sellers funds are unavailable, then file the chargeback with your CC company.
Paypal notified me of a "chargeback" two days ago. A bidder with a (-1) won an auction. Then paid using a "Confirmed" account. 4 days later, PP emails me that a chargeback was filed. Fortunately, I was in the process of packing up my orders for the last 4 days, and pulled this one before it went out. Otherwise, I would have forced PP to refund my money they took from my account while they were "investigating" the claim.
This is the time of season to be on the look out for fraud. Here are a few hints:
1) DO NOT ship to unconfirmed addresses. Paypal will not protect you if the bidder says they never received the item. It does not matter whether you have delivery confirmation with a signature or not. Paypal will not protect you. You can put a block on unconfirmed payments.
2) DO NOT accept Paypal for International bidders. Paypal will not protect you if they make any claims or chargebacks no matter how much proof you have that it was shipped and delivered. USE Bidpay or accept payment by mail. You can put a block on unconfirmed or International PP payments.
3) USE DELIVERY CONFIRMATION FOR EVERYTHING!!! DC is free if you use the www.usps.com website to do labels, or Stamps.com or any other online stamp business. This is your proof of delivery no matter what! Yes, the post office can misdeliver a package and show it as delivered on their website. This in not the sellers problem. If the buyer was concerned about the package getting lost, then they should buy Insurance.
I am posting this information as a seperate thread to share with everyone.
|
AuctionAce
|
posted on November 15, 2003 11:20:32 AM new
I wonder if even the credit card chargeback will work in this case? The company has probably closed all banking accounts or drained them. You can't get blood out of a turnip.
One more pitfall of buying on ebay as compared to buying locally.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
|
stopwhining
|
posted on November 15, 2003 11:52:02 AM new
it will work,as it is paypal name on the merchant account.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
pointy
|
posted on November 15, 2003 02:36:38 PM new
I wonder if even the credit card chargeback will work in this case? The company has probably closed all banking accounts or drained them. You can't get blood out of a turnip.
One more pitfall of buying on ebay as compared to buying locally.
.
.
.
.Why is this a pitfall....is it impossible for a local company to go out of business. I don't know where you live, but where I live stores do go out of business occassionally.
.
.
Also, for your general knowledge, a credit card protects a buyer in cases where a company has no funds. Like if you had bought an airline ticket on an airline right before they declared bankruptcy, which has happened to milions of people over the last 20 years.
|
stopwhining
|
posted on November 15, 2003 04:27:24 PM new
the credit card company will take money from paypal,it does not have subrecords of all the paypal members.
to them ,there is just one account-paypal.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
AuctionAce
|
posted on November 15, 2003 07:40:31 PM new
.Why is this a pitfall....is it impossible for a local company to go out of business. I don't know where you live, but where I live stores do go out of business occassionally.
If you 'buy an item locally and pay for it and take it home' is far from 'buying it on ebay and never receiving it at all'.
You take a gamble each and every time you buy on ebay.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
|
stonecold613
|
posted on November 15, 2003 09:47:40 PM new
This is an interesting situation.
As if this business has filed bancruptcy, the chargeback cannot legally take effect. The fact that you write the company will be liquidated sounds like it might be. All claims end up having to go through the courts. Even PayPal cannot over-ride a court proceding. Good luck on this one.
|
stopwhining
|
posted on November 16, 2003 07:26:40 AM new
you guys are missing the point or understanding how merchant account works.
he used his credit card to pay PAYPAL to the tune of 400 dollars,PAYPAL is the account which received the 400 dollars,now he will file chargeback and his credit card company will notify PAYPAL a chargeback has been filed.
PAYPAL is expected to tell its side of the story saying it has delivered the goods/service in good order.
of course,paypal did not deliver goods/service,it is a member of paypal which has now gone under which was supposed to deliver goods.
but on record,it is paypal which has the account and is accountable for the transaction.
paypal will lose the chargeback and have 400 dollars plus chargeback fee debited from its account.
whatever paypal does with the buyer and seller ,it is not the cc issuer concern.
paypal chooses to make a living being the middleman,and this is one of the risks which comes with it.
dont feel sorry for paypal,a middleman is a pimp !!
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
AuctionAce
|
posted on November 16, 2003 02:05:24 PM new
Thanks for the info Stop. I still do do see Poiny's stance on this seller possibly losing his $400 from an ebay buy from a bellyup seller and the safety of buying from a local seller. The only possible gamble with the local seller is if the item were defective and the store close right after you bought it. The factory warrenty would still be good though if it was a new item.
When you buy something at a flea market, garage sale or live auction you must factor in the price the chance the item is bad and that you can not return it. The same with ebay in most cases. A $100 item locally should sell for much less on ebay to make it worth the s/h costs and gambles of buying a sight-unseen item.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
|
horsey88
|
posted on November 17, 2003 04:34:34 PM new
When you file a non-shipment report with Paypal you will recover only the $$$$ that Paypal can recover from the seller. This usually comes in somewhere around $0.00 if the seller is crooked or bankrupt.
You can do a chargeback through your CC and will temporarily get your $400 back. But you have already given Paypal the right to recover any cahrgebacks you initiate from any source they can,your paypal account,bank account,piggy bank. So if you plan on doing a chargeback empty all the above before you do and yes Paypal will freeze withdrawals from your PP account while accepting deposits. If that fails they will dip into your day to day regular bank account.
|
stopwhining
|
posted on November 18, 2003 06:01:05 AM new
there is also ebay insurance.
horsey,
this issue of what paypal does to the buyer or will do to the buyer is not really clear,not every paypal member has given paypal the right to dip into their bank account
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
stormypetr
|
posted on November 18, 2003 07:13:45 AM new
Ebay insurance will only pay if you do a chargeback and the credit card company refuses the claim.
I would recommend changing the email address on your Paypal account to something no one else knows so people can't continue to pay you through Paypal. That way, if they do freeze your acct, you will still be able to get money from your customers.
|
horsey88
|
posted on November 18, 2003 07:51:15 AM new
[ edited by horsey88 on Nov 18, 2003 07:52 AM ]
|
eagleinc
|
posted on November 22, 2003 06:36:13 PM new
latest update: Paypal says "yup, you got screwed, however the buyer has no money in his account so you get nutting...". Great insurance plan... "we know someone hit your car, but they refuse to pay, so we are not paying..." I can see this catching on in auto insurance.
Next step is file with e-bay protection: apparently must be done during a certain lunar cycle, meanwhile they drag things out longer and longer. Then I guess talk to credit card company. Also I guess I can file as an unsecured creditor when the scumbuckets finally file Chapter 7 in court. Not like there's much chance of money being left.
I don't know, maybe I'll pad my freight charges for a while. Seems to be the thing to do for some vendors. I can build up my reserves just in case.... Only kidding.
In case you are wondering, the company that went under was Techsmart. I'm sure I'm not the only one that got taken. I made a lot of money off them the past couple of years so I'm going to miss them as a source of equipment. Oh, well...Like returnbuy.com, with a business plan of selling other people's surplus and returns and taking a hefty percentage of the gross sale, how much do they pay their idiot management to run a sure thing into the ground??
|
spittincamel
|
posted on November 23, 2003 06:07:32 AM new
eagledec,
you did not buy insurance from paypal,you were just using paypal as a means to pay the seller with your credit card.
for that service offered,paypal charged you a small fee.
auto premium you paid to tne insurance company and the transaction fee and discount fee you paid to paypal is like comparing apple and orange.
file your chargeback with your credit card company now,dont waste time on ebay insurance.
you said you make a lot of money buying from this outfit,techsmart??with margin being so thin in e-commerce,they probably were losing money as they sell,so how long can they last??
when will people see the light-some sites mark up their goods 5-10% over cost and think they can gain market share,you have to have deep pocket ,and if you do have deep pocket,why do it,why not go to the french riviera ??
|
Robbiec
|
posted on November 23, 2003 10:22:20 AM new
Techsmart is still doing business and selling on Ebay. What's up?
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&include=0&userid=Techsmart&sort=3&rows=25&since=-1&rd=1
Seems like they are still in business, unless it's someone else.
|
eagleinc
|
posted on November 23, 2003 11:45:06 AM new
This appears to be a different seller. Techsmart.com I thought used to go by Techsmart for an ID, but recently used Techsmart_network and a couple of others. This Techsmart appears to be unrelated to Techsmart.com
|
stopwhining
|
posted on November 23, 2003 02:16:15 PM new
this one said rochester,new york/
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
eagleinc
|
posted on November 23, 2003 03:42:40 PM new
the other one was in Ronkonkama, NY which is Long Island, I believe. They went by Techsmart_Network, TechsmartAuctions, and RealCrazyMo. I think the Techsmart that is still on there just got to the name first on E-bay.
|
stopwhining
|
posted on November 23, 2003 04:25:12 PM new
you know paypal has in the past found accounts to be related and if one has a deficient balance,it will seize the fund of another account.
-sig file -------The thrill is gone!!
|
