posted on November 14, 2003 10:13:24 AM new
What with all the recent comments, complaints, etc. about how difficult it is to find information, I vote that instead of answering a query by handing a fresh fish to the questioner, we give them a rod and reel plus directions to the nearest trout stream.
In case that was too subtle, here it is restated:
I have real doubts that giving people answers actually helps them. We've seen this time and again in antiques discussion groups I frequent. A bit of information that was intended to be fodder for future research is seized on and used as an authoritative source and final answer.
Look, friends.
If you're going to scrounge things to sell on eBay, you have to develop research skills. If you have no aptitude for research and don't care to learn, stick to selling things that are pretty self-evident. Most new merchandise falls in this category.
I am not averse to helping people, though I'm sure I will be accused of being hardhearted and merciless since that happens every time I bring up this subject in any forum. (Moochers don't like people who suggest they should fend for themselves.) However, in the future I will pointing people towards information sources, not wrapping up the answer in a pretty package.
"Thank you for your support."
--
Coming soon to an Internet near you: fluffythewondercat.com
posted on November 14, 2003 10:29:08 AM new
That certainly is your perogative Fluff. You are one of the most knowledgeable posters here and your input will be missed.
I really enjoy the "what is this" threads because I learn so much and see how much I have to learn!! I don't have the time to follow links to find out the answers, so I love it when those "in the know" post their opinions!
I have no intention of selling anything besides postcards. If truth be told, my husband is the one with the passion for postcards! I always had other collecting interests (ie: california pottery)and so like to read the info here for future reference.
One of my favorites was the thread about Tom's (speaking of, where are you these days Tom?) running rabbit dish! I loved the dish, loved the discussion and loved the success of his auction!
posted on November 14, 2003 10:32:21 AM newHowever, in the future I will pointing people towards information sources
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. I'm sure most here would appreciate that. I find some of the questions and comments interesting. If this board became a gripe board then I don't think too many people would visit it anymore, though. If you take away the questions, what's left?
I guess now's the time to share a great source for orientalia information: www.gotheborg.com You may not get your information as quickly as you'd like, but they have a great board with some very knowledgeable people. You just have to learn to weed out the differences in opinion. I've noticed there is a lot of confusion over Chinese or Japanese. If you spend some time on the site (especially the marks section) you should shortly be able to discern the origin yourself. Also, there are many, many books on the subject. One trick I have when looking at oriental marks is that the Chinese writing is generally sharper in contrast to the Japanese which is usually more fluid (flowing).
posted on November 14, 2003 10:34:44 AM new
I also appreciate the help here - I seldom ask for it, but have learned a great deal from those who do.
I think I can safely say the majority here does appreciate the "what is this" threads, as well as assistance and guidance from others.
I hope we can continue to help one another in spite of the few who complain and criticize.
(grammatical edit)
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
[ edited by wgm on Nov 14, 2003 10:35 AM ]
posted on November 14, 2003 10:42:24 AM new
Darn! I thought this was going to be a Fish story!
wgm, I agree with you. I think that most people appreciate the help.
Whats the point of this forum, if not to help. It can't all be about b*tching and moaining about non paying bidders, or a 'stupid' buyer did this or that, or is that the way it should be?
BTW Fluffy... I have these earring, and was wondering........
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
posted on November 14, 2003 10:46:08 AM new
Cheryl, you're always very helpful here. We do appreciate it. But Fluff, we appreciate your input as well. Just because some ask for opinions doesn't always mean that the information is guaranteed to be correct - and I think most people realize that. They are just looking for opinions and a place to start, that's all. Some of us have a better knowledge of certain things than others...I too have helped people identify things and I'm more than happy to do it. But everyone is entitled to either ignore or contribute to a discussion. Some of my antique buddies have been in the business for over 20+ years, my grandparents, aunt and uncle were all reputable dealers from way back...and I always asked questions. There is a wealth of knowledge out there...what's the harm in asking? Yeah, we can all do Google searches and do other research on line, research books, etc., but who's to say that is always accurate either? It just doesn't hurt anyone to ask on here does it? I also enjoy reading the "what is it" posts as well. Or am I missing your point Fluff?
[ edited by cta on Nov 14, 2003 10:47 AM ]
posted on November 14, 2003 10:59:48 AM new
Okay, I have to say this and I apologize in advance if it offends anyone. Actually I have a feeling there are others who may be thinking the same thing - not sure, just have that feeling...
I think the other thread (and we all know to which I am referring) was in very poor taste. Starting a thread to embarrass someone, whether directly or indirectly, is just plain tacky. It was up to the this person to verify/research the item for confirmation of its origin - and this person did not. Why start the thread, point a finger, and then say "but it's not your fault"? It was wrong, wrong, wrong. Tacky, tacky, tacky.
And then for another person to chime in and agree - well, I just consider the source on that one.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 14, 2003 11:01:25 AM new
Now, would someone please throw toasted some bait on the silver platter? LOL
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on November 14, 2003 11:30:29 AM new
Just want to add a comment from someone who reads & learns a lot from this board. I, too, enjoy the "what is this" questions and answers. I learned about Replacements, Ltd. here and have found many china patterns there. Didn't even know that site existed. Research links are really appreciated. I try to do my own searches most of the time but I sure appreciate everyone's help, even when it's not an answer to a direct question of mine.
I, too, believe that if you ask God for potatoes, he'll hand you a hoe. Sometimes it takes another person to show one how to use it though.
While I have to agree with your comments, I'm sure we've all said things here we wish we hadn't. It's a forgiveable infraction of the unwritten rules.
cta
Thanks. I'm learning about Chinese and Japanese porcelain. It's a huge learning process. Fortunately, I have an expert in the family and he's taught me a great deal. Just when I think I know a lot, I get hit with something else to learn.
A big thank you to everyone on this board who has helped me and that includes fluffythewondercat. Your knowledge is appreciated even if you may think it's abused.
posted on November 14, 2003 11:35:51 AM new
I personally see nothing wrong with the moochers. If I see a thread that says " Need help wih old lamp Please " I usually skip it or take a quick glance at any photo in case my Aunt Fredda had a similar lamp at one time.
We are not required to read each and every post/thread on these boards and shouldn't be annoyed by any posts or threads here?
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
posted on November 14, 2003 11:36:49 AM new
I have to say that I hope the sharing of knowledge on here does not stop. I can understand the frustration when one person asks about item after item on a daily basis but I can tell you that thanks to the info that has been given to others on here I have learnd much - I never knew that "Maimies Knobby Stuff", the various glass serving dishes that only get dragged out for Christmas dinner was actually Candlewick. I had never heard of Replacements where I was able to find out why the Lennox Christmas china that has been handed down and added to over the years have about 4 designs. Those are just two examples but since my mother has just informed me that my presence is expected for a couple weeks next year to help her pack and ebay her home those are things I won't be asking about when I go to help her. I've learned what to look for in glass and china and figurines which has given me a jumping off place when research time comes.
In other words...the more "every so often" information that is given out over the next many months wil equate to less "I'm Tired, I'm frustrated and What the Hell is this" questions I will have to ask as my mother decides to sell everything she ever owned rather than pack it.
I would be curious to know how many questions don't make it to this board because because the seller has absorbed just enough knowledge from other posts to be able to do the reasearch themselves.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on November 14, 2003 11:41:54 AM new
fenix03
I feel your pain. My mother is getting ready to sell her home and move to Florida. I've never seen so much stuff packed into one small house. She has a walk-in closet full of never out of the box Franklin Mint and other collectible dolls. There are china cabinets full of antique family crystal and other items. I know I'll get a lot of the stuff, but she's also going to want me to sell a lot. I'm saving my strength for the aggravation! It's not the aggravation of selling the things for her, it's the aggravation of her moving so far away!
posted on November 14, 2003 11:47:37 AM new
Fluffy: I really don't understand your problem here. This is an open forum for all registered Vendio people plus the lurkers. No one is required to read every message thread. There are many I skip. But we've all been here to help each other and that's why we keep coming back for more information.
Your advice has often been of great help to me and others; if sometimes we choose to hear your advice--or someone else's--and go another route, we probably think through the consequences. And I thank you now for your advice over the months and years here.
Everyone is doing the best he knows how--all the time.
___________________________________
Junk: Stuff we throw away.
Stuff: Junk we keep.
posted on November 14, 2003 12:26:14 PM new
Fluff is right. I believe the problem all goes back to this it takes more than Ebay to become a professional seller. It takes years of hard work and study to become a trusted professional seller or dealer. On this board we have a few people that have little knowledge or business experience but love to act like they are the last word on everything and or play games when someone does give good proven advice. We also have some people that like their silly little cat fight remarks. These people seem to group up into little cliques looking for support. I have in the past blasted these kind of people because I can't stand game players or fakes. I now realize I have made a mistake, I will no longer let myself be drawn into and down by game playing people nor do I want to feed any cliques. I AM OUT OF HERE.
posted on November 14, 2003 12:37:48 PM new
Why is it an either/or situation? You can give an opinion and suggest resources to confirm and learn more about the object at hand. I agree with those who say the "what is this" threads are among the most interesting. I also don't think asking questions is mooching especially if you are willing to share information when you have it.
I happen to be a googleaholic myself who will spend hours searching for information just for the fun of it. Before I asked for help to ID the figural flask, for instance, I had run searches on every combination of key words I could think of with no success. With the information I got from the helpful Outlookers I was able to find a flask that was such a close cousin to the one I was researching that I could be very sure I was on the right track.
Bring on the "what is it"s. They are both fun and educational.
Excuse me Bigpeepa, I must be really dense but I don't understand the cliques comment. I am sure there are always some back and forth and hurt feelings in any venue like this but I was thinking that this board is a lot more civilized than most I have read. It seems way more civil now than in the bad old AW moderators era.
-----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
[ edited by photosensitive on Nov 14, 2003 12:38 PM ]
posted on November 14, 2003 12:59:29 PM new
Bigpeepa-It takes years of hard work and study to become a trusted professional seller or dealer
That is sooooo true! BUT even the most learned professional dealer doesn't know everything
I learned this the EASY way I worked FOR an antique dealer before. Some people brought in boxes of things, and he would go through them, say 'trash it' or 'I'll give you $20 for this' Well... I saw what I knew was a real Hummel figurine, I said, how much, and this antique dealer, told me NOT to try and buy it, its 'cheap Chinese stuff', so the person said, 'ok, how bout a $1?' I said sure.. Sure enough it was the real thing, with the bee and the V and the lines, and resold it on ebay 3 years ago for $200.
There are people on that show Antiques Roadshow that don't really know a lot of what they are talking about, and only take the ones that they have studied and studied hard about beforehand, and probably asked people with more expertise than them.
Even a dealer with 50+ years of expeirence cannot know everything there is about ALL antiques and vintage et al.
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
posted on November 14, 2003 01:25:05 PM new
wgm----------
I think the other thread (and we all know to which I am referring) was in very poor taste. Starting a thread to embarrass someone, whether directly or indirectly, is just plain tacky. It was up to the this person to verify/research the item for confirmation of its origin - and this person did not. Why start the thread, point a finger, and then say "but it's not your fault"? It was wrong, wrong, wrong. Tacky, tacky, tacky. ==========
You are right that I shouldn't have mentioned a name. Whether you believe it or not I wasn't trying to blame them or be tacky as you say. They were being nice and helpful, which some people apparently don't want to do. As I said it was my fault for not doing more research myself. As a friend of mine says "It ain't no big thang"! The buyer and I will work it out and go on down the road. Even if I give all her money back it is a very tiny bump in the road so get over it and don't get nasty about blame or anything else.
It seems very selfish to say you won't offer help anymore. We all need help on occasion and I would offer it if I happen to know the answer. It is a great board to be able to share and ask for help. Few people really get down and dirty about anything. Take it in stride and GET OVER IT!
By the way, the person who offered his/her (sorry I don't know if you are f/m) help, I am sorry if I embarrassed you or made you feel bad about your help. I should NOT have mentioned your name. Guess I just went about wording the message in the wrong way.
posted on November 14, 2003 02:54:09 PM new
Hi All,
I sell only one type of item on ebay. It is not even remotely related to most of the what is this? threads. But I have fun trying to guess before the experts give us the answer. (Wendy, how is my egg poacher going?) These threads are very entertaining especially when Tom and the S-Car-Goes chime in.
Regards,
Adrian
posted on November 14, 2003 04:08:13 PM new
I think its great to asked other people about items your selling. The more information you can get the better. It sure beats alot of the auctions I run into like this is a lamp...e-mail if you want information. It takes a long time to learn alot of the stuff you need to know to sell on E-Bay. I like to see what other sellers are selling.
posted on November 14, 2003 05:11:01 PM new
I wanted to know what about Fish, too!
Guess what the Fluff'ster is saying is she wont be doling out anymore hard-earned or personal advice, maybe just pointing to some resources? Thats fine by me. (Tho you know the 'comments' will be missed
I dont ask "what is" all that much, only when I feel I HAVE EXHAUSTED all other resources. But I can understand wanting to just get a quick opinion on something but ultimately, you take it or leave it. Either way its your decision what you will acquire and use as your knowledge base.
As another poster said, its all a choice. Read it, dont respond - dont read it, dont respond.
I come here inbetween uploading, researching and waiting; for diversion, as well as information. I like the posts here.
posted on November 14, 2003 05:44:45 PM newIf you're going to scrounge things to sell on eBay, you have to develop research skills. I fully agree with fluffy on that and I also agree with Bigpeepa that it takes years of hard work to become a professional dealer.
There is a diverse group of people here with lots of knowledge. Each time someone comes here for info there are usually several answers and as mentioned, it should be up to the seller to do as much research with the info they gather. There is always the possibility that the info given may be wrong.
BIGPEEPA, I don't understand your gripe at all. It's a message board where people give their opinions and nothing is written in stone. Every board has little cat fights now and again because of different personalities but it's never all that serious. You consider yourself a professional seller and many others aren't (in your mind) so you're out of here? Is there an ebay board out there where only the hoity-toity know-it-all professionals hang out where there is never any disagreement and where everyone is correct? lol
Back in July a couple of threads brought similar comments to this "fish" discussion now. Here is one of them:
posted on November 14, 2003 05:52:41 PM new
I also like the "what is it". I have learned so much,and I like to see what others have found.
Keeps this board interesting.
I'm all ways looking for more fish, like mother would say, there are lots of them in the sea...Lets go fishing
posted on November 14, 2003 06:11:11 PM new
kiara, I have to agree, that vase would make a nice looking bong (not that I would know a thing about bongs! lol)
I vote: (I'm saying VOTE because fluffy himself said 'I vote.....') to keep all 'what is it' threads. I like them!
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
posted on November 14, 2003 06:18:54 PM new"It seems very selfish to say you won't offer help anymore. We all need help on occasion and I would offer it if I happen to know the answer. It is a great board to be able to share and ask for help. Few people really get down and dirty about anything. Take it in stride and GET OVER IT!"
paws, I don't know why why you are directing this at me - I never said I wouldn't offer help anymore. I wish I had just half of the expertise some of these people have so I could help.
"...so get over it and don't get nasty about blame or anything else.
I wasn't nasty - I was just calling the situation as I saw it. I felt absolutely horrible for the person who tried to help you, who by the way happens to be one of the more congenial and easy-going people here. Seeing fluffy's thread saddened me, as she is one of the most knowledgeable people here (not to mention the wittiest!).
I am grateful to post on a board where so many seasoned sellers are - there is so much to be learned.
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
