posted on December 2, 2003 12:20:15 PM new
Me & Pelik have been having a GREAT DEBATE about RESERVE AUCTIONS -- the merits or demerits thereof!
My opinions on reserves:
1) Should be RARELY used as they greatly turn-off bidders -- many will immediately back out if they see RESERVE NOT MET!
2) I DO sometimes use RESERVES, but only for HIGH TICKET items where I have a "cut-my-throat" investment, but I need to "intice" bidders just to have a look-see: I'll start say $19.99 with a 199.99 reserve ($199.99 being my absolute lowest price I could survive with)
3) I always disclose my RESERVE price right in the auction, as my goal is to SELL the item, NOT to play head-games.
4) RESERVES on low priced items (under say $70) is a total waste of money!
Please, all ye VD experts out there, JOIN IN & let's all learn something about RESERVE AUCTIONS today!
posted on December 2, 2003 12:29:58 PM new
While your erudite observation that RESERVES create a "wet-vacuum" effect is illuminating, I was hoping for a bit more in the way of expository excess!
posted on December 2, 2003 12:32:02 PM new
pelik??? HAH!
1. No evidence of this at all. Especially if the reserve is indicated in the auction.
2. Reserve ALWAYS is the lowest price you could survive with. It doesn't matter what the amount is. If you want to insure you get the amount you need to survive, a reserve IS the way to go.
3. Then you have no grounds for your point #1. Disclosing the reserve is the smart thing to do in all cases. I won't bid if someone won't tell the reserve -- either in the auction or in mail.
4. Bzzzt. Here I must correct you (AGAIN). This is complete and utter nonsense and you've been proven wrong on this point. This is NOT a matter of opinion, but a matter of pure FACT. If the reserve price is met, then there is NO SURCHARGE whatsoever. So there is no "waste of money" as it costs nothing additional.
What DOES cost more money is setting a higher opening bid. The listing costs you more AND you don't get that money back -- no matter what.
BOTTOM LINE: Reserves are a great feature that should be used when appropriate. tomwiii seems to have an idea of what is appropriate for his small little slice of the world, but seems to want to impose that illogic upon everyone else. To his own shame and embarassment.
------ "Bend over backward for the customer. Don't bend forward."
posted on December 2, 2003 12:37:51 PM new
As a buyer only, I have to agree with your perspective, Tom. I do not bid on reserve auvtion items unles the reserve price is included in the listing text.
If really interested I will, however, put the item in my "Watch List" and check on it periodically. Usually, though, it has closed before I get back to check on it.
No big loss, though, as there will most likely soon be another listed and I will bid on it when it has NO RESERVE!
It doesn't take long to figure out who sells with reserves, and who doesn't. (Translated: Who is willing to gamble on the quality of their product and their description, photos, and customer service reputation, etc., and who isn't.)
Pat
PS: I seldom bid on "As Is" auctions, either, when there is no 'customer service' text included.
posted on December 2, 2003 12:39:16 PM new
I think Reserve Auctions are an insult to the intelligence! Does the seller think I am so stupid that I can't see what he/she is doing? If a seller has to resort to tricks to sell an item, then I guess I don't want the item or to deal with the seller! I prefer auctions where everything..including the starting bid price, is on the "up and up".
posted on December 2, 2003 12:39:39 PM new
No, P ye be wrong. This thread is to learn about reserves.
Any opinions I have about RESERVES have been learned here, on these boards, over the past three years.
If a majority of VD'ers now suddenly are of the opinion that reserves are a wonderful tool for low-price auctions, then I will have to re-think everything I've learned here about reserve auctions.
Why-ever you're being a such nasty schmuck about it is beyond me. I'm truly amazed, as you are the first person I've ever read who raves about reserve auctions for low-priced items.
Could be you're on to something here -- although the math & personal experience seems to me to speak otherwise.
posted on December 2, 2003 12:47:56 PM newNeglus: the cold hard fact is: if nobody even looks at yer auction, nobody bids.
EG: if I have an item with a SUICIDE-PRICE of $400, I can't really start the bidding at $400.00! I could, but nobody is gonna even look!
By starting at (say)$29.99 with a reserve of $399.99, at least folks are gonna look. In BIG & BOLD type, I state the reserve price.
I've only used RESERVES around 4 times. Once, I had that nifty Cocktail Shaker signed by the artist (John Held,Jr - the father of the 'Flapper' look) and I knew it was worth a minimum of $350 -- but I started it at $19.99 with a $299 reserve & ended with around 500 page-views & final price of $450.00!
I don't think I would have gotten the same result if I had started the bidding at $299!
posted on December 2, 2003 12:50:04 PM new
(cross posting here since this is more appropriate thread.)
It is hard to get a good study of this, since there are so many variables, and people themselves are unpredictable. In my fall/winter listing, I have been experimenting, and results are all over the place.
Judging by the bid histories on my own and other auctions I follow, there seem to be a lot of people who are dreamers, and will not bid above ten dollars on anything, reserve or no.
But, for entertainment purposes, here goes.
One item is identical (not similar, not close, but identical) to an item that was up a few weeks ago. That one started at 89.95, no reserve, bidding from get go, eight bidders, ends over $200. No others listed on eBay since. List mine, same categories, virtually same description (you really can only describe this one way), 10.00 start bid, 55.00 reserve. I am thinking this is a shoo-in for at least 100.00 final. No bids until day six, three bidders, bidding has skyrocketed to 15.00. Maybe tomorrow will bring a frenzy of last day bids.
Another 100.00 item listed is up to 10.00. Wonder if they will hit that 40.00 reserve, or if that will be too rich for them as well. I am well experienced, and realistic about prices today, so my reserves are usually about one-third of an average retail. I know most ebay buyers would like both no minimum and no reserve, but I don't feel like sponsoring them.
posted on December 2, 2003 12:57:30 PM new
There are times when I use the reserve. When I have an item that cost me over $50.00, I willl put a reserve on it. Right now I have a soup tureen on with a reserve of $249.00 & a buy it now of $250.00. I know that I can get $200.00 from replacements Ltd. So why sell it for less?
I had a 3 tiered tray in Franciscan Apple that I had a reserve of $75.00. It sold for $78.00, so the reserve didn't stop bidders.
[ edited by sanmar on Dec 2, 2003 01:00 PM ]
posted on December 2, 2003 12:58:28 PM new
Tom- as a buyer for almost 5 years now,I have to say I never liked reserves.I think most buyers want to know right up front what your asking for.Nowadays there are so many sellers,most buyers will go to someone who doesnt have a reserve, unless you are selling something unique.Another thing is the few times I asked someone what the reserve is, I never got an reply,so in essence Im wasting my time.Also like you said have a $19.99 starting bid and having the reserve at 199.99-to me theres nothing more irrating to have to keep bidding to meet the reserve and never knowing if you ever are.Then again thats me,maybe other buyers dont feel that way.
posted on December 2, 2003 12:58:52 PM new
pat1959: It doesn't take long to figure out who sells with reserves, and who doesn't. (Translated: Who is willing to gamble on the quality of their product and their description, photos, and customer service reputation, etc., and who isn't.)
And who is not willing to gamble on the whims of bidders, fluctuations in bidding tendencies, etc. I'm amazed at those of you who paint with such wide brushes that you overshoot common sense.
neglus: I think Reserve Auctions are an insult to the intelligence! Does the seller think I am so stupid that I can't see what he/she is doing? If a seller has to resort to tricks to sell an item, then I guess I don't want the item or to deal with the seller! I prefer auctions where everything..including the starting bid price, is on the "up and up".
What tricks are involved in a reserve auction??? None, obviously. Man, the vitriol is pouring here.
No one is tricking anyone. But like a real auction, a reserve guarantees that the seller holds onto the item if it doesn't reach a minimum. No harm, no foul. NO TRICK.
tomwiii: No, P ye be wrong. This thread is to learn about reserves.
So nice to live in a dreamworld where facts never get in your way, eh Tom?
We can all have our OPINIONS and none of them are wrong. However, you keep stating a LIE as a FACT and once again, you stand corrected.
From ebay..."All Reserve Price Auctions are subject to a Reserve Price Auction Fee that is refunded when you successfully complete your auction on eBay. If your item does not sell, this fee is not refunded."
So -- reserves that are met are NOT A WASTE OF MONEY. PERIOD. END OF DISCUSSION. Soon as the auction ends, POOF, the $$$ is refunded. No filing, no waiting.
I'm truly amazed, as you are the first person I've ever read who raves about reserve auctions for low-priced items.
Who is raving? Except you with your silly-talk and nonsense. I'm not. I just don't take knee-jerk reactions to things or let a group consensus do my thinking for me. Sorry that you do. Reserves DO have value. No, not on low price items. But as has been CLEARLY stated, each person determines what is LOW PRICE TO THEM. Not to you or anyone else.
And since it's been PROVEN that reserves cost NOTHING if the reserve is met, then it's a good bet for someone who wants to insure that they are going to hit a certain level.
Jeepers, I cannot believe you keep arguing this nonsense.
It is your OPINION that reserves drive away customers. NOT FACT.
It is your OPINION that higher bids are a better way to go. NOT FACT. (and since higher starts cost more, that logic is questionable).
Hope that you've finally gotten this through your skull.
If we want to share our experiences with Reserves, then fine. If you have a letter where someone said they won't bid on your auction because of reserve, then let's see it. But it would still serve as nothing more than 1 user out of millions. And would run counter to anyone else who has set a reserve price and sold their items anyway.
Grow up.
------ "Bend over backward for the customer. Don't bend forward."
posted on December 2, 2003 01:01:20 PM new
I don't use reserves, most of my things don't require me to do that. Even if I have something that *maybe* should have a reserve, I don't.
4 years ago I did, only because I worked for an antique shop, and he set the price he wanted. But they were high end antiques.
No, I think it turns most people off seeing a reserve or 'reserve not met'.
JMHO
Wanna Take a Ride? Art Bell is Back! Weekends on C2C-www.coasttocoastam.com
posted on December 2, 2003 01:02:46 PM new
classicrock, I think everyone here agrees that if a reserve is used, it should be disclosed.
Undisclosed reserves, I think, WOULD drive away bidders. Sadly, tomwiii seems not to be able to think through the difference.
------ "Bend over backward for the customer. Don't bend forward."
posted on December 2, 2003 01:04:37 PM newclassicrock000:
I agree that it is frustrating to keep bidding&bidding -- that's why, when I DO use a reserve (rare - like 4or5 times out of 2500 auctions), I DISCLOSE THE R-PRICE IN BIG BOLD TYPE!
posted on December 2, 2003 01:09:11 PM new
Again, ye not be reading...I'm trying to poll the VD experts here about whether or not they feel reserve prices on low-priced items is a good idea.
Over the 3 years I've been here, this is the first time I've ever encountered this & find it to be pretty unusual & interesting.
If all of a sudden, there is a vast ground-swell of approval of this technique from this community pops-up, I'll have to re-think reserves.
posted on December 2, 2003 01:10:19 PM new
TOM!!!!!!!
Maybe I truly don't understand reserves, but, since I learned all here, THAT seems to me to be a waste of moola & counter-productive??
Please explain. If the item you mentioned, $15 with a $10 reserve ended at $11 HOW the reserve was a waste a moola??? (answer: it wasn't)
One more... Perhaps IT WOULD BE a waste if the reserve was 10 and it ended at 9. Because then the $1.00 spent would have covered the difference, but that's a chance you have to take at ANY level.
Your $299 reserve would have be equally costly if the price ended at $298.
No one thinks you should list your $299 item at $299 opening bid. You keep saying that, but no one has suggested anything of the sort.
Oh well. I don't know if you'll ever grasp this. But you probably voted for Clinton too.
------ "Bend over backward for the customer. Don't bend forward."
posted on December 2, 2003 01:12:06 PM new
Okay Tom that is different-at least I know what you want for it-but if Im not mistaken I dont "think" most reserve auctions have the reserve price in the auction itself.
posted on December 2, 2003 01:15:20 PM new
Actually TOM, it's YOU who be not reading.
You keep stating the lie that reserves are a waste of money -- you've been proven wrong on this repeatedly.
I'm smart enough (smarter than you it seems) to know opinion from fact. Share your opinions so we all may laugh. But when you states lies for facts, expect to be called on it.
If most folks here hate reserves -- and that does NOT appear to be the case (most hate undisclosed reserves) -- then that is STILL their opinions. It does not in any way invalidate reserves as a valuable tool WHEN NECESSARY.
As for "low-priced": For you, it's $299. For me and many others it would be $30.
For $5 items, it's a no brainer. But low price is in the eye of the seller.
Once you admit that, there won't be a problem.
------ "Bend over backward for the customer. Don't bend forward."
posted on December 2, 2003 01:16:20 PM new
Classic: Yes, I've always learned here that RESERVES should RARELY be used, except in the most dire of scenarios!
What I'm trying to understand is: is there now a general consensus amongst the VD community that RESERVE on low-priced items is a good idea!
This is a totally new concept to me that goes AGAINST everything I've ever learned here about rerserve auctions.
If most folks here feel that reserves on low-priced items is a great idea, then I have to re-think reserve auctions!
posted on December 2, 2003 01:26:52 PM new
Sorry! I'll rephrase it to:
"Do most VD'ers think reserves should be put on $30 auctions?"
This is truly a new concept here -- over 3 years, all I've ever heard here was how evil reserve auctions were & that they should be sparingly (if ever) used, much less on a $30 auction.
NOT THE END OF THE DISCUSSION, as I'm interested in the opinions of all the VD experts here
posted on December 2, 2003 01:37:10 PM new
I think it is up to the seller as to what price point they set their reserves.
Frankly, I am disappointed in the singling out and attempted belittling of a seller and poster here because you happen to disagree with the way they choose to run their auctions.
__________________________________
If you had one phone call to make before you died, who would you call, what would you say, and why are you waiting?
posted on December 2, 2003 01:38:07 PM new
Tomwii, I agree on all your points. I also disclose the RES in my description if I ever use a RES which is usually only when I sell something for someone else who has to have a bottom dollar for something.....NR!!
posted on December 2, 2003 01:44:49 PM new
I hate reserve auctions. If I want $300 for something I will list it at that.
When I see something listed with a reserve I just back out. So, getting someone to look and getting someone to bid is 2 different things. That is true even if they state the reserve in the ad and I would have paid that much. I think it was a trick to get me to look and I won't buy!
posted on December 2, 2003 01:45:27 PM new
I was extremely happy when Ebay started charging for Reserve auctions. Before that, 1/2 of them had reserves!
If you found this belitteling, I apologize, as I was just flabbergasted -- I thought me was SWEET:
"Soorry...A reserve on a $30 item is not only a total WASTE of MOOLA, it repulses bidders.
Start at $29.99 with a BIN of $35
$29 donna scare folks away from at least looking! I start many auctions at 59.99 or 79.99 & get ooodles of hits & bids!
But, yes, you're right: they do be yer auctions to do with as ye pleases! I just get a bad case of bush-pretzels whenever I see someone nice just throwing moola at Meg fer no reason "
posted on December 2, 2003 01:53:37 PM new
If anyone can ever figure out the perfect combination of what to buy/sell/price they will be too busy counting their money to come and post here.
Every seller is an individual, as is each buyer. Sometimes the stars align in such a way that a miracle happens, other times not.
And the funny part, none of it has to make any rational sense. So, we just keep trying to figure it out based on our own experiences, and sometimes prejudices, whether rational or not.
posted on December 2, 2003 02:06:25 PM new
::Translated: Who is willing to gamble on the quality of their product and their description, photos, and customer service reputation, etc., and who isn't.)::
I have to say that this narrow minded assumption bothers me as well. I use reserves on specific items. I have a couple lines that I sell that are highly prized among their specific collectors but it is a small niche of actual people. I'm not going to give away the item just because the right people were not around that week. I use a reserve because I KNOW the quality of my items and because of that I protect them and moreimportantly...their market.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
